Posts by Kalosyni

Some personal thoughts regarding the purpose of the study of Epicurean philosophy.

The purpose of studying Epicurean philosophy here on the forum is intellectual growth and personal development.

Epicurean intellectual growth is multifaceted:

• development of reading and comprehension skills
• knowledge, memory and synthesis

Epicurean personal development is multifaceted:

• Understanding the nature of anxiety toward death, as well as anxiety toward unknown potential events of the future (war, government instability, pandemics, etc), and working with these anxieties to find clarity and peace. Understanding the nature of the soul and the nature of death - we no longer exist after death.

  (*Edit note - development of coping skills: "Epicurean serenity prayer" and memorization of key Principal Doctrines/Vatican Sayings - added on Feb. 18, 2025)

• Dropping old habits of superstitious thinking (understanding some things by necessity, some by chance, and some by our own control) and when we do not have enough evidence we wait to draw any conclusions.
• Letting go of and recovering from past "religious-abuse" and disturbed religious systems of thought, and fully experiencing Nature and the natural world.
• Remembering that there is only a set amount of time to live, which may end sooner than we think, and therefore ignoring the siren call of over-consumption and all the distractions of the crazy rat race and getting down to the task of fully living with pleasure.
• Understanding personal responsibility and implementing good choices which will lead to the health of the body and happiness of the soul.
• Developing friendship skills and lifelong friendships.
• Helping others with all of these personal development issues through sharing information and discussion

*****

If anyone thinks of anything else to add, please post

Some personal thoughts regarding the purpose of the study of Epicurean philosophy.

The purpose of studying Epicurean philosophy here on the forum is intellectual growth and personal development.

Epicurean intellectual growth is multifaceted:

• development of reading and comprehension skills
• knowledge, memory and synthesis

Epicurean personal development is multifaceted:

• Understanding the nature of anxiety toward death, as well as anxiety toward unknown potential events of the future (war, government instability, pandemics, etc), and working with these anxieties to find clarity and peace. Understanding the nature of the soul and the nature of death - we no longer exist after death.

  (*Edit note - development of coping skills: "Epicurean serenity prayer" and memorization of key Principal Doctrines/Vatican Sayings - added on Feb. 18, 2025)

• Dropping old habits of superstitious thinking (understanding some things by necessity, some by chance, and some by our own control) and when we do not have enough evidence we wait to draw any conclusions.
• Letting go of and recovering from past "religious-abuse" and disturbed religious systems of thought, and fully experiencing Nature and the natural world.
• Remembering that there is only a set amount of time to live, which may end sooner than we think, and therefore ignoring the siren call of over-consumption and all the distractions of the crazy rat race and getting down to the task of fully living with pleasure.
• Understanding personal responsibility and implementing good choices which will lead to the health of the body and happiness of the soul.
• Developing friendship skills and lifelong friendships.
• Helping others with all of these personal development issues through sharing information and discussion

*****

If anyone thinks of anything else to add, please post

Twentieth Gathering Zoom is next Thursday, for all Level 03 Members and Above!

Agenda:

• Welcome
• Opening Reading to Commemorate Epicurus and Metrodorus - by Kalosyni
• Monthly notable Epicureans - presentation by Cassius
• Discuss popular forum threads & latest podcasts
• Open discussion on Epicurean philosophy

Attendance Info:

Meeting is limited to "03 - Members" and Above. A private message with link will be sent out the day before to those who have previously attended. If you have not previously attended, or if you have been absent for more than six months, please private message Kalosyni to be added in to (or back in to) the private group message.

This functions as an an outline / list -- on ethics, and wanted to reference it (still a work in progress):

Post

RE: Creating a "Seven Steps to the Ethics of Epicurus"

Here is a work-in-progress outline for a course on the Ethics of Epicurus. (I will be adding in more details, and still needing to incorporate the above tips by Don, and others, as well as add in from Cassius' wiki list: Epicurean Ethics).

The Ethics of Epicurus 7 Week Course

Week 1: Introduction to Epicurean Philosophy Basics

Topics:

• Epicurus' life and historical context
• Brief overview of basic concepts: a materialist universe of "atoms and void" and Epicurean canonics (senses, feelings, and

…

Kalosyni

July 12, 2024 at 6:04 PM

This is a good article, just in time for Valentine's Day:

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/11/nx-s1-5288794/9-pieces-of-advice-to-help-you-navigate-the-ups-and-downs-of-romance

Just for fun...

Quote

"When the girl returned, some hours later, she carried a tray, with a cup of fragrant tea steaming on it; and a plate piled up with very hot buttered toast, cut thick, very brown on both sides, with the butter running through the holes in it in great golden drops, like honey from the honeycomb. The smell of that buttered toast simply talked to Toad, and with no uncertain voice; talked of warm kitchens, of breakfasts on bright frosty mornings, of cosy parlour firesides on winter evenings, when one’s ramble was over and slippered feet were propped on the fender, of the purring of contented cats, and the twitter of sleepy canaries.”
– Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

Source: Food Quotes

As I was listening to an audio recording of "Thomas Jefferson and His Time" by Dumas Malone, it mentioned Lord Bolingbroke, and that Jefferson had written this into his notebook:

"No hypothesis ought to be maintained if a single phenomenon stands in direct opposition to it."

The Philosophical Works of the Late Right Honorable Henry St. John, Lord Viscount Bolingbroke - Wythepedia: The George Wythe Encyclopedia

Henry St John, 1st Viscount Bolingbroke - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

AxA you may want to check out this section of the forum (if you haven't already):

Outlines, Guides, And Maps

Eikadistes seeing your graphics made this pop into my mind (used Canva to make collage and my tablet blending tool).

Quote from AxA

I think I'll learn a lot from this first attempt at a live meetup. I'll have to manage the conversation, make sure it's not just generic chat, and prevent anyone (including myself) from talking too much.

Perhaps this...using a book on Epicurean philosophy.

Probably the best "user-friendly" book is Emily Austin's book: "Living for Pleasure: an Epicurean Guide to Life"

Living for Pleasure: An Epicurean Guide to Life - Emily Austin

Al-Hakiim von Grof That looks like a good brochure! ...and perhaps AxA may want to use it (or something like it) for the Epicurean Meet-ups group he is starting.

kochiekoch Wishing you a Happy Birthday!

AxA Welcome to the forum!

That's great that you are starting a meet-up in Toronto.

And looking forward to meeting you at the next First Monday Zoom. I'll be posting the discussion topic about a week before. I will go ahead and add you to the group conversation - the meeting link will be sent out the day before the meeting.

sowhataustin Welcome to the forum!

Quote from Cassius

"The wise man always has more reason for joy than for vexation."

You could almost use this as an additional "criteria" when you ask yourself: What will happen to me if I get what I want and what will happen if I do not get what I want. (paraphrase of VS71)

Quote from Don

The lighthouse is always there. We steer our little boat towards the lighthouse. We steer away from the rocks and shoals by the beacon of the lighthouse. We choose to keep going through storms and rocks to get to safety. We don't sit out the storm, unless we're too far out to see when we have to heave to.

How does pain, pleasure, homeostatis, satisfaction in the feeling of being alive (Chrysippus' hand), doing what needs to be done for good longterm outcomes, etc. fit into this metaphor?

Quote from Don

Pleasure exists as the omnipresent end-point of all our actions. We don't have to run the race to achieve pleasure. It is here, now, in every decision, every action, IF we're willing to admit that that is - in every moment - the final cause of all our actions.

Don it sounds like you are saying that the telos is the same as saying: "pleasure is the guide of life". (?)

Which then is very similar to saying: When the sky is clear it is blue - basically, an observation.

Quote from Bryan

Many people have goals beyond their own pleasure — some give too much of themselves, others take too much for themselves, while almost all seek unnecessary change of some sort — and this leads them into many unpleasant and unnecessary circumstances!

Bryan it sounds like you are saying duty to "virtue" sometimes overrides pleasure as a guide of life. (?)

And what you said about: "while almost all seek unnecessary change of some sort — and this leads them into many unpleasant and unnecessary circumstances" - this may be worth a new thread discussion, to explore (if you have more to say?)

****

What comes up for me now is that we really ought to be saying that both pain and pleasure are the guides of life. Because if you watch yourself during an entire day, how much of the time are you motivated by the desire to remove pain?

Of course the next thing that would be said is: "pleasure is the removal of pain". But this is doing word gymnastics (redefining words). If I go outside to pick some camellia flowers and put them in a vase and put them on my dining table, then this is done for pure pleasure. But if I drink water because I feel thirsty and it relieves my thirst, then I am motivated by the removal of pain.

Quote from Don

I have thoughts on the word "goal" for τέλος ... But that'll have to wait until this evening

Just to flesh out a bit more about the "goal": "What does an Epicurean focus on doing?"

Because either you are 1) choosing for yourself and being intentional; or 2) you are just going along with what other people around you are doing (i.e. letting them choose for you or going along with their random whims); or 3) giving in to your own random whims and urges.

So if you are choosing your actions with intention, you need to know how much importance to put onto each option that comes your way.

Quote from Cassius

I don't see a way around explaining what Pleasure means in full, which is more than just sensual stimulation.

I firmly believe that Epicurean philosophy should be easily explained without having to re-define a common word.

In English the word "pleasure" currently has a specific meaning. And to the average person who has not studied the philosophy, it ends up conveying an idea that Epicureans just are just out to have a good time, and it very much is first understood as sensual stimulation or sensual gratification.

We use a different word for mental pleasure - it's called "enjoyment". And I feel like the phrase "pleasant experiences" encompasses both physical and mental pleasure.

Also, what is left out of "pleasure" is the use of reason to banish wrong opinions about the nature of life, the soul, death, etc.

So a goal could be to state all of that (enjoyment, prudence, and reason) in one succinct sentence.

This excerpt from the Letter to Menoeceus got me thinking...

"For it is not continuous drinkings and revelings, nor the satisfaction of lusts, nor the enjoyment of fish and other luxuries of the wealthy table, which produce a pleasant life, but sober reasoning, searching out the motives for all choice and avoidance, and banishing mere opinions, to which are due the greatest disturbance of the spirit."

We need to pay attention to how we hear and understand words. If we say "Pleasure is the goal of life" it ends up leading to a skewed understanding of Epicurean philosophy, by putting too much emphasis on food/drink/sex...and because there are those people who function that way even now in our current times.

So my idea is saying this instead: "Pleasant experiences are the goal of life" which can still include enjoyment of food, etc. and has a more grounded feeling (and includes prudence) compared to "pleasure is the goal of life" which has a "swinging from the chandeliers" connotation (or the sex/drugs/rock-n-roll").

"Pleasure is the goal of life"

------------VS-------------

"Pleasant experiences are the goal of life"