Posts by Don

From one reference librarian to another, welcome aboard. Great introductory story!

Quote from Bryan

Just as an experiment, I wanted to see how well GPT could automatically break the text into smaller sections and produce a vocab list

That's an impressive start. And that vocab list was generated automatically by ChatGPT? Some of the grammar and definitions are basic, but I'll admit I'm a little stunned, encouraged, and just a little bit intimidated.

PS: Upon further reflection, I still believe you need a human intelligence to interpret, to understand, and to communicate what the texts mean and how to apply them.

Bryan : You might need interested in these videos:

Quote from Pacatus

And those few ancient images may well have been "riffs" themselves?

Good point. Roman copies of Greek originals.

It might be useful to remember all the bearded Epicurus images are based on probably 2, maybe 3, statues and maybe a ring or two(?) at most from the ancient world.

I'm disregarding the School of Athens one traditionally with the wreath and the bald one seen on various medieval or Renaissance images.

The modern ones are all jazz riffs on that ancient image.

Bryan : Yeah, I wasn't impressed with their pronunciation convention. It seemed a little hodgepodge and too "Erasmian."

I was more impressed with this paleography sections.

Somewhat into the weeds of Ancient Greek, but this paper provides practical applications of learning that language:

Hellēnizein: A Flexible Structure for Teaching Greek to Archaeologists and Ancient Historians (2nd author with E. Parisinou). Milton Keynes, 2004; Liverpool, 2008; Leicester, 2015

Hellēnizein: A Flexible Structure for Teaching Greek to Archaeologists and Ancient Historians (2nd author with E. Parisinou). Milton Keynes, 2004; Liverpool,…

www.academia.edu

Being able to pick out names and phrases on artifacts in museums is quite rewarding.

Quote from Bryan

"Elephants, many thousands of which fortify India with an ivory wall " (DRN 2.537)

Is that a metaphor for using elephant-mounted troops in warfare? Like Themistocles interpreting "wooden walls" as ships.

Quote from BrainToBeing

And, yes, I realize that "down in the weeds" of "pleasure" is the idea that self-sacrifice may be interpreted as personal "pleasure". However, I can certainly tell you that doing what was right, rather than what was pleasurable, was not pleasure in many, many situations (long story with many elements).

From my perspective, that is actually the point. Don't dismiss those weeds too lightly. Are you able or willing to admit to yourself that doing what you felt was "right" was pleasurable to you. Feeling that you did the correct action *was* pleasurable. If you want to say that doing what you felt was right brought you a sense of satisfaction, I can see that. But satisfaction is a type of pleasure in long run.

Quote from Nate

It was impressed upon me (by Peripatetics) in college that "flourishing" was the only acceptable definition of εὐδαιμονία. One of the professors of the department described Aristotle as "the smartest person who ever lived."

I'll gladly give Aristotle his due up to a point, but "the smartest person who ever lived." LOL! I think he was more clever than smart, and too clever by half from what I've read.

FYI for anyone interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alasdair_MacIntyre?wprov=sfla1

Quote from BrainToBeing

I'm more interested in doing something constructive as my core driver.

And "doing something constructive" gives you pleasure, right?

Quote from BrainToBeing

I deny pleasure where pursuing it would not be constructive (e.g. coffee and a glass of wine at dinner are my only drugs). I voluntarily accept pain where it comes necessarily as a consequence of doing something constructive (e.g. vigorous exercise entails some pain).

"And because pleasure is the fundamental and inborn good, this is why not every pleasure is seized and we pass by many pleasures when greater unpleasant things were to result for us as a result: and we think many pains better than pleasures whenever greater pleasure were to follow for a longer time by patiently abiding the pain." -Epicurus, letter to Menoikeus

I don't know. You might be an Epicurean after all.

Quote from Bryan

I am ready to put my vote for a nice new script for writing English!

For your consideration:

Constructed scripts and languages

www.omniglot.com

Quote from Pacatus

NOTE: I had a philosopher friend, who did his dissertation on the Nicomachean Ethics, who insisted the best rendering of eudaimonia was "flourishing" -- but that strikes me as even more problematic than "happy."

Fully agree. "Flourishing" seems ... wrong? Merriam-Webster defines "flourishing" as

"marked by vigorous and healthy growth; very active and successful."

Your "happy well-being" is better, for sure. I lean more in the direction of "satisfied well-being" or "contented well-being." To be even more literal, I might suggest "to be in good spirits," but that might be taking the linguistic pun too far.

BrainToBeing , that's a great post! Thanks for sharing your expertise and insights. Dr. Anna Lembke (author of Dopamine Nation) touched on some of the same themes. I like the way you described the relation but difference between nociception and suffering. How would you describe the pain from "painful" memories or similar mental pains? There's no actual nociception going on there, is there? I'm curious for you to expand on the "existential pain" you mentioned in passing.

Quote from BrainToBeing

Mostly I was reflecting on the issue of "a happy life".

It's a great question, and, in many ways, comes down to "How do you define the word 'happy'?" The word translated as English "happy" in most ancient texts is eudaimonia. I like to translate that as "well-being" instead of "happy." Well-being is kind of a play on the word components of eu-daimonia, but that's into the weeds. "Happy" carries so much semantic baggage in English it can get in the way.

Quote from BrainToBeing

I believe Epicureanism has been challenged as advocating hedonism.

We have discussions on here all the time about Epicurus's "hedonism." Hedonism gets hung with "sex, drugs, and rock and roll" often, but it seems there are different brands. I believe Emily Austin describes Epicurus's philosophy as psychological hedonism, "the view that the ultimate motive for all voluntary human action is the desire to experience pleasure or to avoid pain. Immediate gratification can be sacrificed for a chance of greater, future pleasure."

Quote from Bryan

I am interested, but sincerely ignorant of Tolkien (beyond the fact he is the author of The Lord of the Rings). I just did a quick wikipedia read however - interesting stuff! Is the script of Tengwar actually printed in the books and legible?

I won't steal Eikadistes 's fire, but chime in on my own experience.

The Appendices of The Lord of Rings have a whole section on the languages and wriiting systems. They can be see in use on most editions' title pages, on The Doors of Durin at the entrance to Moria, in the song book "The Road Goes Ever On" with Tolkien and Swann, and in Tolkien calligraphy online (and there's a LOT of fan art with the letters).

The thing that has always endeared Tolkien to me is that **the languages came first**! He was a conlanger from an early age, created the "Elvish" languages and wanted a world in which they were spoken... hence Middle-earth came into being!

If you're curious at all, a wonderful site is Ardalambion from Helge Fauskanger.

I realize we're way afield of Epicurus's Garden here, so I'll put my Tolkien fandom (which began back in the late 70s/early 80s) back into my pocketses for now.

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."

J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit

Quote

Thoughts, perspectives? (Or, have you already talked that into the ground?)

Honestly, there's no topic that has been exhausted or talked into the ground. Each time a topic comes up, it provides the opportunity for fresh perspectives, honing one's arguments, and wrestling with interesting and challenging questions. Thanks for raising the topic!

From my perspective, "happy life or a relevant, contributing life" is a false dichotomy. For one reason, self-care is of vital importance to truly be contributing. Burning oneself out on "contributing" does no one any good.

And "relevant" to whom? "Contributing" to what?

An important perspective on this, from my view, is Principle Doctrine 5:

It is not possible to live a pleasurable life without the traits of wisdom, morality, and justice; and it is impossible to live with wisdom, morality, and justice without living pleasurably. When one of these is lacking, it is impossible to live a pleasurable life.

Eikadistes : Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!! ✨

The evolution of Greek pronunciation is fascinating. Modern Greek has gone all in on the fricatives βδγφθχ and also collapsed a number of vowels and diphthongs. But the language started back in Classical times with phonemic distinctions like aspirated vs unaspirated stops, pitch accent, phonemic vowel length, and others. I highly recommend Luke Ranieri's Greek Pronunciation Chronology Spreadsheet to see it laid out:

Ranieri's Greek Pronunciation Chronology

All Greek w/ Alternative Coaeval Pronunciations All Greek with Alternative Coaeval Phonemes,Luke Amadeus Ranieri's GREEK PRONUNCIATION CHRONOLOGY Spreadsheet…

docs.google.com

So, Stratakis uses a reconstructed Classical Attic convention, including all those ancient distinctions; whereas Ranieri provides a spectrum of evolutionary steps. Both are firmly rooted and supported by historical and linguistic research.

I'm a bit of a linguistics nerd and find all this fascinating. I learned the International Phonetic Alphabet in high school, etc. I fully agree with Ranieri when he talks about the importance of pitch accent and vowel length in especially being able to appreciate ancient poetry and to appreciate just the sound of the language. It's an interesting thought experiment to consider how "evolved" Epicurus's pronunciation was toward fricativization and other features, or Philodemus, or Diogenes of Oenoanda.

Full disclosure: This is a highly controversial topic in some circles but historical evidence is clear, compelling, and definitive in backing up this linguistic evolution. All languages go through it.

Here are some other links on Ranieri's site:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/80661461

https://lukeranieri.com/lucianpronunciation/