Posts by Eikadistes

Authorized Doctrines

Norman W. De Witt

I was unable to identify Authorized Doctrines 11, 15, 17, 24, 25, 26, 30, 33, 37,

and 38 in De Witt’s two works, Epicurus and His Philosophy (1954) and St. Paul

and Epicurus (1954) from which I verified the below translations. — Nate

PD01.a “The blissful and incorruptible being neither knows trouble itself nor occasions trouble to another, and is consequently immune to either anger or gratitude, for all such emotions reside in a weak creature.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 252)

PD01.b “The blessed and incorruptible being neither knows tribulation itself nor occasions it to another; it is consequently immune to feelings of either anger or gratitude, for all such emotion signifies a weak creature." (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus 187)

PD02. “Death is nothing to us, because dissolution means unconsciousness and unconsciousness is nothing to us.” (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus 187)

PD03. “The removal of all pain is the limit of the magnitude of pleasures. And wherever the experience of pleasure is present, so long as it prevails, there is no pain or distress or a combination of them.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 226, 241, 246)

PD04. “Pain does not prevail continuously in the flesh but the peak of it is present for the briefest interval, and the pain that barely exceeds the pleasure in the flesh is not with us many days, while protracted illnesses have an excess of pleasure over pain in the flesh." (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 244)

PD05. “It is impossible to live pleasurably without living according to reason, honor and justice, nor to live according to reason, honor, and justice without living pleasurably.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 184, 246)

PD06.a “As for the assurance of safety from the attacks of men, by virtue of the nature of political dominion and kingly power this is a good thing, no matter by whose aid one is able to procure it." (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 79)

PD06.b “Political rule and kingly power being what they are, it is a good thing to feel secure in human relations no matter through whose agency one is able to attain this." (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus 187)

PD07.a “Some men have chosen to become celebrities and to be in the public eye, thinking thus to achieve security from the attacks of men. Consequently, if the lives of such men are safe, they have reaped the end of Nature, but if their lives are not safe, they lack that for the sake of which at the outset they reached out by the instinct of Nature.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 189)

PD07.b Some men wish to gain reputation and to be in the public eye, thinking by this means to win security from the attacks of men. Consequently, if the lives of these men are safe they have achieved the end ordained by Nature; if, on the contrary, their lives are not safe they lack that for which at the outset they reached out in obedience to an instinct of Nature." (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus 187)

PD08. ”No pleasure is evil in itself but the practices productive of certain pleasures bring troubles in their train that by many times outweigh the pleasures themselves.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 235)

PD09. “If every pleasure were alike condensed in duration and associated with the whole organism or the dominant parts of it, pleasures would never differ from one another." (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 235)

PD10. “If the practices productive of the pleasures of profligates dispelled the fears of the mind about celestial things and death and pains and also taught the limit of the desires, we should never have fault to find with profligates, enjoying pleasures to the full from all quarters, and suffering neither pain nor distress from any quarter, wherein the evil lies." (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 235)

PD11. Undocumented in De Witt's works?

PD12. “It is impossible for men to dispel the fear concerning things of supreme importance not understanding the nature of the whole universe but suspecting there may be some truth in the stories related in the myths. Consequently it is impossible without the knowledge of Nature to enjoy the pleasures unalloyed.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 305)

PD13.a “Nothing is gained by building up the feeling of security in our relations with men if the things above our heads and those beneath the earth and in general those in the unseen are matters of suspicion.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 305)

PD13.b “It is of no avail to have established security in human relations if things above and in the earth beneath and those in the infinite universe in general.are viewed with uncertainty." (St. Paul 188)

PD14.a “Although safety from the attacks of men has been secured to a certain degree by dynastic protection and abundance of means, that which comes of the retired life and withdrawal from the multitude is the most unalloyed” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 189)

PD14.b “Even though security from the injuries of men may have been established to a certain degree by dynastic protection, the most unalloyed feeling of security is to be found in the retired life and withdrawal from the multitude." (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus 188)

PD15. Undocumented in De Witt's works?

PD16. “Fortune plays but little part in the life of a wise man and the things that are of most value and consequence are subject to arrangement by rational planning, and throughout the whole extent of life are subject and will be subject to it.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 177-178)

PD17. Undocumented in De Witt's works?

PD18. “The pleasure in the flesh is incapable of increase when once the pain arising from need has been removed but is merely embellished. As for the mind, its limit of pleasure is begotten by reasoning out these very problems and those akin to these, all that once created the worst fears for the mind.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 227-228)

PD19. “Infinite time and finite time are characterized by equal pleasure, if one measures the limits of pleasure by reason.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 229)

PD20. “It is the flesh that finds the limits of pleasure boundless and infinite time would have been required to furnish it, but the intelligence, taking into the calculation the end and limit of the flesh and dispelling the fears about eternity, renders the whole life is perfect.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 225)

PD21.a “The man who has discerned the limited needs of life is aware how easy of procurement is that which removes the pain arising from want and renders the whole life perfect, so that he feels no need of adding things that involve competition.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 186)

PD21.b “The man who discerns the narrow limits of life's needs will understand how easy it is to procure what removes the discomfort arising from want, so that he feels no necessity of engaging in activities that involve competition." (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus 72)

PD22. “We must take into our reckoning the established telos of all manifest evidence, to which we refer our judgments; otherwise all life will be filled with indecision and unrest.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 152)

PD23. “If you are going to make war on all the sensations, you will not even have a standard by reference to which you shall judge those of them which you say are deceptive.”(De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 140-141)

PD24. Undocumented in De Witt's works?

PD25. Undocumented in De Witt's works?

PD26. Undocumented in De Witt's works?

PD27.a “Of all the preparations that wisdom makes for the blessedness of the perfect life by far the most precious is the acquisition of friendship.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 190)

PD27.b “Of all the preparations which wisdom makes for the blessedness of the complete life by far the most important is the acquisition of friendship." (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 308)

PD27.c “Of all the preparations that wisdom makes for the blessedness of the perfect life, by far the most important is the acquisition of friendship." (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus 188)

PD28.a “The same argument that assures us of nothing terrible lasting forever or even very long discerns the protection furnished by friendship in this brief life of ours as being the most dependable of all." (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 293-294)

PD28.b “The same conviction that makes us feel confident of nothing terrible being either eternal or even of long duration discerns the assurance of safety within the narrow limits of this life itself as being most perfectly effected by friendship." (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus 188)

PD29. “Of the desires some are natural and necessary; some are natural but not necessary; and others are neither natural nor necessary.” (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus 18)

PD30. Undocumented in De Witt's works?

PD31. “The justice of Nature is a covenant of advantage to the end that men shall not injure one another nor be injured.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 147)

PD32. “To all animate creatures that have been unable to make the covenants about not injuring one another or being injured nothing is just nor unjust either; this statement holds equally true for all human races that have been unable or unwilling to make the covenant about not injuring or being injured.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 295)

PD33. Undocumented in De Witt's works?

PD34.a “Wrong-doing is not an evil in and by itself; the evil lies in the uneasy feeling, amounting to fear, that he will not escape detection by those appointed for the punishment of such offenses.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 153)

PD34.b “Injustice is not an evil in and by itself but the evil lies in the fear arising out of the uncertainty that he will not escape detection by those appointed for the punishment of such offenses.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 296)

PD34.c “Violating the law is not an evil in itself but the evil lies in the uneasy feeling, of the nature of fear, that he may not escape detection by those appointed for the punishment of such offenses.” (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus, 122)

PD35. “It is impossible for the man who does one of those things which they have covenanted with one another not to do, in order to avoid injuring and being injured, to be confident he will escape, even though for the moment he shall escape numberless times, for till the end it will be uncertain if he will really escape." (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 297)

PD36. “So far as the universal concept is concerned, Justice is the same for all, for it is a kind of advantage int he life they share with one another, but in respect of the particulars of place and all affecting circumstances whatsoever it does not follow that the same thing is just for all.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 296)

PD37. Undocumented in De Witt's works?

PD38. Undocumented in De Witt's works?

PD39.a "That man has best forestalled the feeling of insecurity from outside who makes relations friendly where possible, where impossible, at least neutral, and where even this is impossible, avoids contacts, and in alt cases where it pays to do so arranges for dynastic support." (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 309)

PD39.b “That man has best established the feeling of security from external hazards who has made his relationships friendly wherever possible; where this has been impossible has made them at least not unfriendly; and wherever even this has been impossible avoids contacts; and wherever it paid him to do so has arranged dynastic protection." (De Witt, St. Paul and Epicurus 188)

PD40. “All those who have best succeeded in building up the ability to feel secure from the attacks of those around them have lived the happiest lives with one another, as having the firmest faith.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 304)

This is a great find, Don, because – as I recall from the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook group – we've had numerous Stoic opponents rail against Epicureanism like it's a Gateway Drug to Hard Pleasures. This reinforces the centrality of stability in Epicurean philosophy and provides an obvious reason why not all pleasures are to be chosen.

I came across Mandeville in my research and initially added him to my list. There are a few loose citations that tie him to the Epicurean philosophical tradition (and not just modern epicurean stereotypes). He seems to have been familiar with the specifics of the philosophy and made several observations about Christian neo-Epicureanism.

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The controversial Epicurean moralist, Bernard Mandeville, makes a distinction between Christian Epicureans like Erasmus, Gassendi and Temple, who claim that piety and virtue are the only true sources of voluptas, and libertines such as Hobbes's follower Charles de Saint-Évremond, who associate it with more straightforwardly sensual pleasure.” (Bullard, Edmund Burke and the Art of Rhetoric 91)

I caution against presenting Venus to non-Epicureans as our go-to expression of divinity. I don't think that Venus is a completely inappropriate teaching tool, but using Venus as our prototype will inevitably lead to misinterpretation.

In accordance with Epicurus' insistence on frank speech, I think we should use materialistic language to express the notion of divinity as the gods. Philodemus' innumerable, extra-terrestrial animals who have cultivated an incorruptible state of pleasure seem more coherent with Epicurus' teachings than does Lucretius' symbolic hymn. Presenting any one personality as the Epicurean expression of divinity might lead to the common misconceptions of the masses that Epicurus warns against in his Letter To Menoeceus. For example, a Christian might assume that Epicureans either worship Venus as a personal savior, or assume that we see Venus the Creatrix as pre-dating the natural world.

Invoking the gods instead of Venus serves to prevent a few common misconceptions.

(1) While pleasure is universal, the means by which pleasure is realized is unique to each animal. This god may pursue a different path to pleasure than that god. No one God offers a path that can be prescribed as a universal panacea.

(2) Students of our tradition do not need to rely on metaphors to understand divinity. Most forms of idealism tend to abuse the use of ambiguous metaphors to obscure their contradictions. Our philosophy is not limited to metaphors.

(3) Venus is a culturally-contextualized personality from ancient Rome (or Aphrodite in Ancient Greece); therein, Venus isn't nearly as accessible to a contemporary audience as is Mother Nature, to exemplify a more viable metaphor.

(4) Venus as a symbol of life and fertility invokes images of verdant field, succulent fruit, and life as it is on Earth. The gods may be silicon-based lifeforms who breathe methane, or something even more unexpected.

(5) While Lucretius is one of our primary sources of information, he wrote exclusively in poetic verse, and we have an extra layer of interpretation to even understand what Venus symbolizes. That's a burden on new students.

As a general expression of our philosophy, the use of mythic personification is an invitation to misinterpret a philosophy that has been radically misinterpreted throughout history, particularly by self-proclaimed Epicureans, like the Italian Humanists who synthesized Epicurean physics with faith in their Christ. If we are to invoke a primary divinity at all, I would suggest using the contemporary metaphor of Mother Nature. Even better, I think it best to avoid using metaphors as much as possible when referring to divinity, and, instead, privilege the phrase "the gods".

“[Epicurus'] philosophy rode this tide. It had reached Alexandria even before his arrival in Athens. By the second century it was flourishing in Antioch and Tarsus, had invaded Judaea, and was known in Babylon. Word of it had reached Rome while Epicurus was still living, and in the last century B.C. it swept over Italy.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 29)

“Both Thessalonica and Corinth must have been strongholds of Epicureanism.” (De Witt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 338)

“After the third century BCE there were Epicurean centres in Asia Minor, Syria, and Egypt: adherents, identified from their cities, came from Tyre, Sidon, Tarsus, and Alexandria. Epicureanism also expanded west. […] The existence of communities in the Naples region is attested by both Horace and Vergil. […] Epicureanism can be attested in a board variety of locations: Herculanem, Sorrento, Rhodes, Cos, Pergamon, Oenoanda (the Lycus valley), Apameia (Syria), Rhodiapolis, and Amastris (Bithynia). Locations like Athens and Oxyrhynchus provide evidence for the preservation fo Epicurean writing, as well as Herculaneum. […] Asia Minor (notably Ephesus, Alexandria, and Syria are all suggested as prime candidates for its location.” (King, Epicureanism and the Gospel of John: A Study of Their Compatibility 11-13)

“It will be worth our while to observe how admirably Epicureanism was equipped for the penetration fo Asia. As mentioned already, the branch school at Lampsacus was strategically situated for dissemination of the creed along the coast of the Black Sea. On the west coast of Asia there was another school at Mytilene […] Still further to the south was the original school at Colophon, close to Ephesus. […] The gateway to Asia, however, had been open to the cred of Epicurus for three centuries before Paul’s time and Tarsus was a center of Epicureanism. […] Epicureanism was the court philosophy of Antioch during the reigns of at least two kings of Syria, Antiochus Epiphanes and Demetrius Soter." (King, Epicureanism and the Gospel of John: A Study of Their Compatibility 62)

“In it he attests the widespread Epicurean communities of Athens, and Chalcis and Thebes in Boeotia.” (The Cambridge Companion to Epicureanism 20)

"We meet Epicureans not just in Athens, where they were amongst Paul's audiences, but we also come across Epicurean communities in the West, in Herculaneum or Sorrento, in the East, on Rhodes and Cos, in Pergamon, Lycian Oinoanda, Syrian Apameia, in remote southern Lycian Rhodiapolis or in Amastris in Bithynia on the Black Sea. (The Cambridge Companion to Epicureanism 48)

I appreciate that, Don, thank you!

The draft can be found here:

File

Epicurean Philosophers by Nathan H. Bartman

A definitive list of our Epicurean friends throughout history. (For the latest updates: https://twentiers.com/2024/05/26/timeline/)

Eikadistes

March 6, 2022 at 6:04 PM

This immediately reminded me of something I came across in my research: an author's attempt to connect the dot of "Ram Dass" with the dot of "Epicurean Philosophy." I was nearly disturbed to have come across the following anecdote:

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“Perhaps, like spiritual philosopher Ram Dass, a contemporary Epicurean would enjoin the truth-seeker to Be Here Now and Pay Attention.” (Mills, Epicurean Simplicity 22)

"Epicurean" has meant so many things to so many people, from the materialist piety of the ancient Greeks, to the hyper-political sensualists of Rome, to heretical medieval scholars, to Gassendi's "Christian Epicureans", to French libertines, and English atomists who overwhelmingly rejected the title of "Epicurean" to distance themselves from accusations of atheism. Here, author Stephanie Mills is using an American Vedantist, steeped in Indian Idealism, as a doorway to understand Epicurean ethics.

I do think that it is important to distinguish, as Cassius has pursued with commitment, "Epicureans" from "Neo-Epicureans" because there are so many heterodox interpretations that have obscured Epicurus' teachings. Gassendi saw Epicurus' atomist as being compatible with the revelation of Christ; the French libertines used "hedonism" as a justification for their lifestyle, but had little use for grounding their sense of morality in physics; the English materialists of the Reformation (who probably deserve the title of "Epicurean") did not want to associate themselves with atheism, which is antithetical to Epicurean philosophy, anyway.

We're up against 1,700 years of misinterpretation, largely (and ironically) attributed to self-alleged "Epicureans", themselves. As soon as we begin correlating Epicurean philosophy with the revelation of Christ, unrestrained pleasure-seeking, or, in this case, Ram Dass' interpretation of Hindu Vedanta, the teachings of Epicurus become an accessory to the modern ego.

Greetings, friends!

I hope everyone is well.

I've expanded this research drastically, and realize that the research I've put together will not fit in a single post (70,000-character maximum), so I'm going to be uploading my PDF once it is complete.

Cheers!
Nate

Quote from Don

Hmmm... After reading the ancient source text (Thanks, Cassius !!), Frischer seems to me to be going off on a DeWittean historical fiction flight of fancy. He wants to write a good story, but I don't see his conclusion supported by the ancient text itself.

That said, I found the ancient text fascinating! Certainly sets up a contrast with the Stoics, and puts that "controversy" with the "4th leg of the Canon" into a different context, too.

I've had a similar reaction to reading Frischer's literature. I'm finding a trend in modern scholarship of sympathetic authors and enthusiasts taking poetic licenses to adapt Epicurean philosophy to their social context. Many of their conclusions are based on tenuous links, and their descriptions take advantage of a historical gap due to a lack of source material. I don't necessarily think that their conclusions are incoherent with Epicurean philosophy, so I find them to be useful ways of engaging a contemporary audience; still, the authors seem to place low priority on acknowledging their personal fictions, and that can be problematic.

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“Just as new, and in keeping with this spirit, is Epicurus’ attempt to create an alternative community for philosophers in which normal life could be pursued along with philosophy. Philosophy no longer criticizes or serves the dominant culture; it turns its back on it, secedes from it, and, most importantly, puts something positive in its place. That Epicureanism was for these reasons unprecedented seems to have been clear to such contemporaries of Epicurus as Damoxenus and Arcesilaus. For them, and for others such as Timon or Menippus who were caught up in the old antagonistic relationship of philosophy and society, Epicurus’ vision was either infuriating or amusing. For others, more open to change, the Epicurean alternative was attractive indeed.

The Epicurean sanction of marriage is a first indication of the new direction taken by Epicurus in solving the problem of accommodating philosophy and society. By admitting women to the school and encouraging marriage and child-rearing, the status of the Epicurean philosopher was no longer decided in terms of the dominant culture but in terms proper to the Epicurean experiment in reconstructing a past stage of history. At what was in Epicurean eyes the most desirable stage of history, men and women formed foedera based on free will and mutual interests. In was perhaps inevitable that when it came to putting this idea into practice, the women the Epicureans sought for marriage were not the eligible women of the community at large but the female students of the school, who were in a position to make their foedera for philosophically correct reasons. The number of such women seems to have been sufficiently large, at least in Epicurus’ day, and was at any rate far greater than it seems to have been in the other schools, where a Hipparchia or Axiothea – both significantly wont to dress in male attire, as if to deny their femininity – is only occasionally to be found. The hetairai Boidion, Leontion, Hedeia, Nikidion, Mammarion, Demelata, Erotion, and Philainis were connected with the school. Metrodorus’ sister Batis married Idomeneus (p. 368.5 Usener); Leonteus married Themista (D.L. 10.26). We know that Metrodorus and Polyainos were married and had children, although we do not know the names of their wizes (D.L. 10.26). It would be hard to overemphasize the appeal of a school that was willing to grant females full rights of participation in all of its activities. It would have been attractive both to women inclined toward philosophy and, perhaps more importantly, to men who sought hte companionship of such sympathetic and intelligent women.

The participants in the school were not only encouraged to marry and raise children but also to dwell together in the Garden (D.L. 10.10 citing two sources). The arrangement is not otherwise encountered in a philosophical school. The Epicurean school was thus both an education enterprise and a genuine community where, we may assume, all the normal activities of life took place alongside learning and study. Here, then, is another reason why Epicurus deprived himself of the legal loophole of the religious association: he conceived of his organization as an alternative polis, not simply as a specialized part of the traditional city-state. An ancient and non-Epicurean witness, Numenius, seems to be reporting Epicurus’ success in this with an observer’s disinterested eye when he says (apud Eusebius, Praep. Ev. 14.5.3) that ‘Epicureans in the Garden resemble people living in a well-organized state.’

(Frischer, The Sculpted World, Epicureanism and Philosophical Recruitment in Ancient Greece, 61-63)

Right off the bat, I think I need some context into what "marriage" meant to ancient Greeks.

Were they primarily economic arrangements? Was there a romantic tradition that encouraged the subjective pursuit of passion? Were they as bad at picking partners as our current divorce rates suggest we are? Were couples expected to produce children? Was marriage primarily an institution to promote reproduction? Did ancient Greek marriages suffocate women with domestic roles? Did they put excessive economic strain on men? How prevalent and severe were sexually-transmitted infections at the time? How universally-accepted was pederasty? How tolerant were Greeks on non-traditional sexual practices? For that matter, what were the Greeks traditional sexual practices? How old were men and women, on average, when they married? I'm curious because I have no idea.

Depending on the definition of "marriage" to ancient Greeks, I may have more or less sympathy with Epicurus' position. Marriage as companionship between two best friends is utterly different that marriage as marrying-off your 13-year-old daughter for political gain. Historically, "marriage" tends to imply "duty" or "social responsibility", which is antithetical to Epicurean philosophy, so if that's the tree up which Epicurus was barking, I definitely agree.

There's a consistent metaphor of harbors and storms at sea through Epicurean lore, inspired both by both Odysseus' shipwreck on the island of the Phaeacians and the later association of Epicurus with his own shipwreck, prior to establishing the Garden. Using this same metaphor, Lucretius explains how it can be pleasure to watch the vast travails of others:

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"It's sweet, when winds blow wild on open seas,

to watch from land your neighbor's vast travail,

not that men's miseries bring us dear delight

but that to see what ills we're spared is sweet;

sweet, too, to watch the cruel contest of war

ranging the field when you need share no danger.

But nothing is sweeter than to dwell in peace

high in the well-walled temples of the wise,

whence looking down we may see other men

wavering, wandering, seeking a way of life

with wit against wit, line against noble line,

contending, striving, straining night and day,

to rise to the top of the heap, High Lord of Things.

O wretched minds of men, O poor blind hearts!"

(De Rerum Natura translated by Frank O. Copley, Book 2, Lines 1-14)

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I share a similar feeling with this analogy living in Florida with hurricanes. For me, the stormy skies are beautiful. The winds are still captivating. The exploding power transformers are magical. Skipping work is a relief. Knowing that I don't have to fight with crowds in public is a blessing. I've always had the privilege of living beneath a safe roof on high ground.

Hurricanes mean something completely different to lonely seniors, or people living in mobile homes, or homeless members of our society, or people living within modest means near the seashore. To them, this event is an existential threat. It's not a joke, it's not a poetic metaphor, it's not something at which to smile. It's terrifying, tragic, and life-changing.

I have never lived through a non-deadly hurricane. Every hurricane for which I have been present has always lead to at least one drowning. While I was watching those trees dance in the wind, others were hiding on a floor while a tree fell through their roof. The juxtaposition between peoples' experiences based on their levels of security is staggering.

That juxtaposition also provides a learning opportunity. For every person that dies of disease, there was a case study that contributes to a future treatment. For every drowning during a hurricane, civil engineers design better and better structures, and people adopt safer and safer practices. It is always a pleasure to grow wiser and practice prudence.

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"...And inspired before the same loud clamor, some will strive with the effort of Apollophanes [the Stoic] to advance wonderfully to the podium, but others, having landed in [philosophy's] harbor and with hopes offered them that 'not even the venerable flame of Zeus would be able to prevent them taking from the highest point of the citadel' a life that is happy, afterwards, in spite of opposing winds...." (Philodemus, P.Herc 463)

Suppose a small gang of people in poverty are set on committing theft: Let's say one member of the group (we'll call them "Buddy") has a change of heart and decides to go home at the last minute. Fast-forward several months ... the rest of the group has been caught and sentenced.

Prior to the group being sentenced, Buddy felt apprehension, knowing that, maybe, he could have gotten away with it. If he had, the money he acquired could have helped him escape poverty, as it may potentially for the rest of the gang who went through with the theft.

Just before sentencing, Buddy was kicking himself in the pants.

Upon the gang being sentenced, Buddy feels tremendous relief, like drinking water when thirsty, or eating when hungry, or making a sound choice when anxious. Their sentencing indicates that Buddy was prudent and made the profitable choice. Prior to the gang being sentenced, Buddy felt anxiety. The moment of the sentencing, Buddy feels vindicated.

It would be a mistake to view Buddy as being a sadist for feeling pleasure at a situation that leads others to pain; it would also be a mistake to judge Buddy for not choosing to perform a sacrificial act of altruism (such as taking credit for the theft to release his "friends").

It is not!

I'm pleased that another Epicurean out there is producing memes!

I believe that was a bust of Diogenes Laertius.

Upon review, we can definitely update any text that is unclear. It's meant as a teaching tool, so it may be in need of some refinements.

There's a characterization from the 2nd/3rd-century CE Greek grammarian Athenaeus of Naucratis of Epicureans as being "atom-prophets".

I can dig it.

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Instead, for Athenaeus, Epicurus provides only the sharp contrasts with the Odyssey: Homer gives us the context for a symposium and stipulates who is to be invited; in contrast, Epicurus launches into the symposium without a prologue and thus presents a scene with no place or time. Furthermore, Epicurus’ Symposium is un-Homeric in that the gathering is attended solely by philosophers, whom Athenaeus dubs 'atom-prophets' (προφήτας ἀτόμων, Ath. 5.187b; cf. 5.177b). While Epicurus’ symposiasts are flatterers and Plato’s are caustic, Homer’s dinner guests temper their speech (The Learned Banqueters 5.182a). – The Invention and Gendering of Epicurus, 45-46

ἔτι δὲ ὁ μὲν Ὅμηρος ἡλικίαις εἰσάγει διαφέροντας καὶ ταῖς προαιρέσεσι τοὺςκεκλημένους, Νέστορα καὶ Αἴαντα καὶ Ὀδυσσέα, τὸ μὲν καθόλου σύμπαντας τῆς ἀρετῆςἀντεχομένους, εἴδει δὲ διαφόροις ὁδοῖς ὡρμηκότας ἐπ᾽ αὐτήν. ὁ δ᾽ Ἐπίκουροςἅπαντας εἰσήγαγε 'προφήτας ἀτόμων' καὶ ταῦτ᾽ ἔχων παραδείγματα τήν τε τοῦποιητοῦ τῶν συμποσίων ποικιλίαν καὶ τὴν Πλάτωνός τε καὶ Ξενοφῶντος χάριν. ὧν ὁμὲν Πλάτων τὸν μὲν Ἐρυξίμαχον ἰατρόν, τὸν δὲ Ἀριστοφάνη ποιητήν, ἄλλον δ᾽ ἀπ᾽ἄλλης προαιρέσεως σπουδάζοντας εἰσήγαγεν, Ξενοφῶν δὲ καί τινας ἰδιώταςσυνανέμιξε. πολλῷ τοίνυν κάλλιον Ὅμηρος ἐποίησε καὶ διάφορα παρατιθέμενοςσυμπόσια. πᾶν γὰρ ἐξ ἀντιπαραβολῆς ὁρᾶται μᾶλλον. ἐστὶν γὰρ αὐτῷ τὸ μὲν τῶνμνηστήρων οἷον ἂν γένοιτο νεανίσκων μέθαις καὶ ἔρωσιν ἀνακειμένων, τὸ δὲ τῶνΦαιάκων εὐσταθέστερον μὲν τούτων, φιλήδονον δέ. τούτοις δ᾽ ἀντέθηκε τὰ μὲν ἐπὶστρατιᾶς, τὰ δὲ πολιτικώτερον τελούμενα σωφρόνως. καὶ πάλιν αὖ διεῖλεν τὰ μὲνδημοθοινίαν ἔχοντα, τὰ δ᾽ οἰκείων σύνοδον. Ἐπίκουρος δὲ συμπόσιον φιλοσόφωνμόνων πεποίηται. (Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae, 5:3) <http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?do…erseus-grc2:5.3>

I couldn't find an English translation of Deipnosophistae.

PEACE AND SAFETY - /'piːs ænd 'seɪf.tiː/

PAX ET SECURITAS – /'pæks ɛt sɛːˈkuːri.taːs/

Εἰρήνη καὶ ἀσφάλεια – /iː'riːniː cɛ as'faːliːa/

ΕΙΡΗΝΗ ΚΑΙ ΑΣΦΑΛΕΙΑ – /e.'rɛ.nɛ kǎi̯ as.'pʰaːle.a/

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Do we have any instances of this Epicurean saying besides 1 Thessalonians 5:3?

Absolutely. I think the mistake is on the behalf of the inquirer. Questions about measuring the relative geometric proportions of celestial objects implies that Epicurus had such an answer, or, more importantly, cared about it, which I think he did not.

He recognized that we had a functional understanding of the immeasurably large, immeasurably distant spheres above the terrestrial regions of the World, so there was no need to posit any number, large, or small, as the predominant view seems to imply.

That's a good point and it makes me consider a few other things:

The Heliocentric model, itself, was in need of being tweaked for systems with binary stars (which are actually the most common types of systems in the universe), so Epicurus' model is consistent with contemporary relativity. That also applies to any systems (WARNING: EXTREME SPECULATION) with life-holding worlds that have stable orbits around Black Holes.

Heliocentrism carries a danger of being seen as a geometrically-ideal solar configuration to which other Solar System must necessarily conform. Relatively defaltes that.

For that matter, his speculation is also applicable to (another common, cosmic possibility, to which our own system is, again, an unusual rarity) systems where the only identifiable life exists on the satellites of gas giants. To a lunar organism making this cosmic inquiry on the moon of a Gas Giant, the discovery of Heliocentrism – which is key to a planetary organism – becomes a less significant scientific advancement than Geocentrism to a lunar organism, especially considering that a primary energy source for such a satellite would be volcanism, fueled by the shifting tidal forces of the parent gas giant's colossal gravitational force, not the Sun. Geocentrism is the Heliocentrism of Moonlings.

Given attempts to measure the relative sizes and energetic-importance of neutron stars, gas giants, brown dwars, and supermassive black holes to the possible life-supporting planetoids which orbit around them, Copernican Heliocentrism comes up sort of short.