"For example, he thought our senses were accurate and dependable. If we saw the sun or moon to be a certain size, then we could trust they were that size. But,
when he was right about something, wow was he right! It is amazing to me that someone who lived around 300 BCE could know more than many people living in the 2000s CE. "
This is true that the senses are accurate and dependable always it is just our way we determine that data that gets the errors that's why we need to make observations and use the senses to make sure it is true or false. like when a stick is in the water you can put your hand down the stick and notice it is still straight despite appearing bent in the water. But I would agree that this interpretation can make one misunderstand what he meant by that. Am I right fellow epicureans? I would like to make an accurate comment to her post.
Posts by godek
Yesterday I was listening to a podcast of an interview with the author of the book Stress Proof:
The author is a neuro-opthamologist (I never knew there was such a specialty!) so her approach is very biologically based. godek , there was some discussion of depression as it relates to stress, which is why I'm posting. But of interest to me was the contention that uncertainty is the greatest contributor to stress and some discussion of removing uncertainty, which sounded a lot like autarchy. The author professed her enthusiasm for Stoicism, but the material presented seemed more Epicurean to me! Anyway it's worth a listen; I plan to read the book sometime soon.
yes epicureanism gives us some certainty. But I think epicureans are fine with some uncertainty as being too certain turns into dogma and just as bad as religion with it's superstitious beliefs. There is a famous quote that goes like this "only fanatics are so certain and the wise so full of doubts." I think there is some things in life that we can be certain of. Cassius am I wrong about that? I think there is some epicurean maxim or quote about accepting new facts when we get new facts in through our senses.
Yes I agree sounds more epicurean. Plus stoicism contracdicts
itself with fate so if you are fated to end up in a certain journey what is the point in being virtuous when one has no free will? which also goes against current scientific thought with quantum physics so basically therapists and psychology just cherry pick stoicism and the end result is really epicureanism most of the time.
I think since epicurean philosophy is material(matter science not money) and empirical. Also the fact that it states you need motion in order to create joy. I thought to add Newton's equal force law to fight the cycle of depression. So doing more especially activities that you enjoy and science shows is best for neurotypical humans to be happy we create more joy and help get rid or cope better with depression. But we also have to remember that we can't have too much of a good thing as epicureans state too. The belly doesn't require unlimited filling. Or about ascetic and extravagance that we need moderation in all things.
I think a lot of healthy pleasures start out as pains first then greater pleasure later. Going to figure out how to word that the best way. I think I read this in some recovery guide online.
This worksheet just a means a tool for you to pursue pleasure but not an end in itself ultimately you decide what to do.
Is the desire natural and necessary?
Is the desire natural but not necessary?
Is the desire neither natural nor necessary?
Question the desire what will happen if the desire is achieved and what will happen if it is not?
Ask yourself does this desire have pain if so does it give greater pleasure later?
Is the desire pleasurable but it brings greater pain afterwards?
What do you think cassius? Should I add anything?
I mean the virtues listed in dewitt's book.
Current project is "To pursue or to avoid a desire" worksheet. I think I will create a work sheet for each epicurean virtue and state on each one that it is just a means(tool) to mean an end and not an end in itself. My favorite virtue is gratitude so probably do a worksheet on that next. These are therapy worksheets based on epicurean thought. What do you fellow epicureans think of the title I picked?
Cassius Even though it is just a question an answer worksheet should I eventually make it into a spreadsheet so it is easily moveable as you suggested?
I think This worksheet can help with the maximization of pleasure spreadsheet. So after one understands and gets on paper the common questions epicureans would ask their students with the correct answers(I will make more examples just a few for each question so they have an idea what to put there.). They can make the proper judgement of what to put in that spreadsheet.
What software did you use to make that spreadsheet? I like how you changed it up so it fits on a printed piece of paper.
I don't think it really matters if it is subjective or not it does make us think and feel differently when we write it down on paper according to research by David d. Burns M.D. Like when you feel depressed you can write down all the good things that happen that day because we have a tendency to ignore the positive. If I am interpreting subjective correctly in your posts on the other post.
This is funny that Hiram brings this up because I am currently wanting to setup an investment. I think I will read the book my former accountant recommended to me which is called "The Intelligent Investor" by Benjamin Graham.
I really like Hiram idea of looking at it like how an accountant does their work. We have a ton of terms to try to relate them to epicurean philosophy for net pleasure vs net pains. Like loans, interest, investments, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc.
Like investment could be lesser net pains that we endure(invest) in to gain greater net pleasures. Other investments would be like taking more days off from work in order to spend more time with friends and family this type of investment is the net gratitude memories that we gain over time vs net profit we make at work. We could setup some type of a gratitude journal worksheet. Speaking of jobs perhaps we could make a job likability score sheet net profits vs net pleasure at the job.
Loans could be what the epicureans talk about mutual aid or time spend with friends but in the hopes that your friend returns the favor or if you are the benefactor please return the favor when the time comes.
I think gratitude from what I read about the research in positive psychology one could use it as a sort of interest (but a small one or a large one depending on what type of net gratitude you use) because it is accumulate over time to create a lot of net pleasures.
Okay cassius I changed the settings for being able to view it if you have the link. Let me know if you can edit it. I have another document that pertains to the worksheets which is the therapy book. I'll post it soon to the drafts section on here.
This is what I have come up with so far feel free to make changes. I made a copy in case of vandalism. I will make a gratitude list in their for all that have helped.
What would an Epicurean use in their toolkit for the hedonistic calculus? I mean like the quotes you'd go by and nature and unnecessary desires, the virtues, etc. I am looking for ideas on making hedonistic calculus therapy worksheets.
What do you fellow epicureans believe to be true about fashion and art? Can one have fancy(artistic, stylish) shoes or clothes but may or may not be expensive and still be an epicurean? I thought Epicurus was more about plain simple basic and not extravagance.
I thought to mention this in light of the recent topics in music. Before I got into Epicurean Philosophy I got into metrosexuality(a man that gets into his feminine side but still being masculine in his choice of wardrobe his home his hygiene his taste in the arts and so on. It is about being stylish.) I read many books on the topic and applied some of it. But I think some of those metrosexual men take it too far and buy too many clothes, shoes and so forth. Not having many clothes and not following trends but something you find appeals to you after you have applied the tips for how to be stylish but in your own way such as wearing colors that go together not wearing cowboy hats or boots with shorts and other similar things.
Closing thoughts but then again Epicurus wasn't against indulging in luxuries when they are easily obtainable.
By the way what did Epicureans teach about art like in designing clothing, perfumes, shoes, etc? Like they have ideas on Music but what about the other arts is what I am asking.
Is that bookmarks with moon reader?
I think the direction at which you are looking at this is probably unproductive. The goal is to live pleasurably under your particular circumstances, so you must analyze those circumstances to see what is of most immediate relevance to you. If there were a set list that applied to everyone in the same way at all times, then that would imply a fate or guiding hand that does not exist. Check DeWitt's chapter on "The New Virtues" chapter 14 where he discusses them this way:
Where did you get an ebook to format the chapter like that? Debating if I should by the digital one from google play.