Posts by Cassius

Thank you Oscar! i am sort of thinking that something like this is on PDF somewhere in some collection to which the universities subscribe, but for which they charge exorbitant rates to non-students. I know I was able to find the Stanley translation of Gassendi that way at my university library. It wasn't in JSTOR but it was in some sort of generic antique document collection.

(Of course it goes probably without saying that Martin would have no issue with the original German, if we can find it, even though that would be next to useless to me personally.)

Seems to me I recall someone saying that they worked in an office without much light. Dark is great there and I use it at home, but my office is fairly bright and i can't see the dark as well there, so I guess it is a good thing it is easy to change!

Wow that sounds like a lot of trouble but if you are so inclined when you have the chance, that would be great. Maybe we can group-source this and perhaps if someone has library access to a PDF download we could eventually get it that way. One thing I really miss about being in a university town is good access to a library with on-line resources.

You are certainly right as to the drawbacks of Meetup. Unfortunately for the present we are only a small group, but we have to start somewhere.

Actually I now remember, if I recall correctly, that EricR is from Canada. It's a big country but I'll tag Eric to say hello to him, and maybe he'll have a comment on Toronto.

Martin I have made some progress.

The first cite is to this work:

65. Clark, Iron Kingdom, p. 187.

That is a cite to:

Clark, Christopher, Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia 1600–1947 (London, 2006)

There, in Iron Kingdom, I find:

"Throughout his life, Frederick displayed a remarkable disregard for the conventional pieties of his era. He was vehemently irreligious: in the Political Testament of 1768, he described Christianity as ‘an old metaphysical fiction, stuffed with miracles, contradictions and absurdities, which was spawned in the fevered imaginations of the Orientals and then spread to our Europe, where some fanatics espoused it, some intriguers pretended to be convinced by it and some imbeciles actually believed it.’9"

That reference is as follows:

Does that help? We may now be at a a dead end on that "Political Testament" but maybe not (?)

Thank you Martin. That book I linked originally had a cite but it was not visible for free. I will dig further because I hate passing spurious quotes. If I find anything I will report back.

Oscar it's possible that the best way to organize is through Meetup.com. Do you have any experience with that site? You'll see we have some info here:

Planning And Execution of A Local Meetup Group

Yes Oscar I have that noted in the side bar on the home page, but maybe I need to feature it more prominently. Just for my info what design are you finding best for you? Dark or light?

Thank you Oscar! You have just made your first major contribution to organization of the forum. I already had a forum and threads set up for discussion of each chapter as part of our online discussion meetings, but your question caused me to realize that I needed to reorganize that into a category and subforums for each chapter.

In my view there is not likely to be in many years a book so important as this one, and if we are going to use it as an organization method for discussing the philosophy (and I think it is the best one extant) then we want people to start new threads and not just respond to existing ones. So I am setting that up now and you will find it here: Norman DeWitt's "Epicurus And His Philosophy"

I will have it fully set up, with existing threads moved to the new location, before the day is over.

Thank you!

Very good Oscar. As you know I push that book pretty hard because I think it gives an excellent overview without getting bogged down in too much comparative criticism.

But even as I push it as important, I like nothing better than to hear commentary from others as they read it and compare it to what they have read elsewhere. No doubt DeWitt's take is not in line with the conventional outlook in many ways, and I like to hear the reaction of people whether they agree or disagree, so I hope you'll post comments as you read it.

I would love to see the Getty Villa! Seems like a really underappreciated resource for people with a connection to something that is sort of Roman-revivalist - like Epicurean philosophy.

Oscar we've had some degree of success in having online discussions, and we'll probably schedule another one soon. We've been going through the Norman Dewitt book, as that is a highly organized presentation of the whole philosophy.

Do you happen to have read DeWitt's book?

Quote from Oscar

where's the annual symposium?? lol

That is definitely a question that we need to answer! If they can have an symposium in Athens, and if Thessaloniki can have regular meetings too, then our goal certainly ought to to match that. We can make some headway through on-line discussion, but in the end there's no substitute for in-person meetings.

Oscar thank you very much for the kind of offer of support. I think Hiram has a patreon entry, so you might want to consider that, but I have not put one up myself. Over time and as the site grows I will revisit that, because I do think it encourages camaraderie even to make small donations, and we definitely want to encourage teamwork.

You have certainly hit on the main purpose and benefit of this site. I have typed more words than I can count on Facebook that are forever lost, but here each word we type is findable and hopefully helps build a base from which we can work toward active Epicurean cooperation.

The best way you can help is to start threads of your own, contributing to existing ones where you can, and also helping us spread the word to other friends of Epicurus who haven't yet heard of the site.

Thanks again!

I think our friend here Martin, who is from Germany, is much more on top of this than I am, but it is very interesting story - especially the statue aspect. I bet there is a lot more to find over time.

Great post, Oscar, and I personally absolutely feel the same way. That kind of feeling oozes out of every section of Lucretius - how can we not ascribe supreme importance to our connection to the work of a man who had the courage and wisdom to stand against so much of the world in the way that he did - and showed us how to do the same!

Wow what a great introduction! Thank you for taking the time to all that information. The music is great too! I have added those to the music threads here: Epicurean-Friendly Art and Music

Oscar we are always in need of new ways to get the word out. Could you tell us how you came across this forum?

Thanks!

Welcome Oscar! When you get a chance please tell us about your background and interest in Epicurus.

This quote is new to me, but it appears well sourced. I say that because: (1) It is certainly a reasonable thing for an admirer of Lucretius, like Frederick the Great is known to have been, to say. I too am an admirer of Lucretius, and I think the same thing most every day! Further, (2) it comes quoted from what I understand to be a reputable text (Niall Ferguson's "Civilization, the West and the Rest"). If anyone has evidence that indicates that this quote is spurious, please post and I'll retract point (2).

Further, if anyone knows the exact source, please post that too. Obviously this is a translation so it would be good to know the name of the translator too. Presumably from wherever this comes, there is more of interest.

https://books.google.com/books?id=mRO3x…beciles&f=false

Thank you Martin!

For today’s Twentieth, here is confirmation of the importance of the Twentieth to Ancient Epicureans, even through the words of the spiteful Cicero, who did his best to undermine Epicurean philosophy. Cicero’s arguments provide useful information, and the best way to honor Epicurus on the Twentieth is to study the opposing arguments so as to know how to refute them:

"Yes, Torquatus, you people may turn and twist as you like, but you will not find a line in this famous letter of Epicurus that is not inconsistent and incompatible with his teachings. Hence he is his own refutation; his writings are disproved by the uprightness of his character.

That provision for the care of the children, that loyalty to friendship and affection, that observance of these solemn duties with his latest breath, prove that there was innate in the man a disinterested uprightness, not evoked by pleasure nor elicited by prizes and rewards. Seeing so strong a sense of duty in a dying man, what clearer evidence do we want that morality and rectitude are desirable for their own sakes? But while I think that the letter I have just translated almost word for word is most admirable, although entirely inconsistent with the chief tenets of his philosophy, yet I consider his will to be quite out of harmony not only with the dignity of a philosopher but also with his own pronouncement.

For he repeatedly argued at length, and also stated briefly and plainly in the book I have just mentioned, that ‘death does not affect us at all; for a thing that has experienced dissolution must be devoid of sensation; and that which is devoid of sensation cannot affect us in any degree whatsoever.’ The maxim such as it is might have been better and more neatly put. For the phrase, ‘what has experienced dissolution must be devoid of sensation,’ does not make clear what it is that has experienced dissolution. However in spite of this I understand the meaning intended.

What I want to know is this: if all sensation is annihilated by dissolution, that is, by death, and if nothing whatever that can affect us remains, why is it that he makes such precise and careful provision and stipulation ‘that his heirs, Amynomachus and Timocrates, shall after consultation with Hermarchus assign a sufficient sum to celebrate his birthday every year in the month of Gamelion, and also on the twentieth day of every month shall assign a sum for a banquet to his fellow-students in philosophy, in order to keep alive the memory of himself and of Metrodorus’?

That these are the words of as amiable and kindly a man as you like, I cannot deny; but what business has a philosopher, and especially a natural philosopher, which Epicurus claims to be, to think that any day can be anybody’s birthday? Why, can the identical day that has once occurred recur again and again? Assuredly it is impossible. Or can a similar day recur? This too is impossible, except after an interval of many thousands of years, when all the heavenly bodies simultaneously achieve their return to the point from which they started. It follows that there is no such thing as anybody’s birthday. ‘But a certain day is so regarded.’ Much obliged, I am sure, for the information!

But even granting birthdays, is a person’s birthday to be observed when he is dead? And to provide for this by will — is this appropriate for a man who told us in oracular tones that nothing can affect us after death? Such a provision ill became one whose ‘intellect had roamed’ over unnumbered worlds and realms of infinite space, without shores or circumference. Did Democritus do anything of the kind? (To omit others, I cite the case of the philosopher who was Epicurus’s only master.)

And if a special day was to be kept, did he do well to take the day on which he was born, and not rather that on which he became a Wise Man? You will object that he could not have become a Wise Man if he had not first of all been born. You might equally well say, if his grandmother had not been born either. The entire notion of wishing one’s name and memory to be celebrated by a banquet after one’s death is alien to a man of learning. I won’t refer to your mode of keeping these anniversaries, or the shafts of wit you bring upon you from persons with a sense of humour. We do not want to quarrel. I only remark that it was more your business to keep Epicurus’s birthday than his business to provide by will for its celebration."

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Seneca recorded the ancient Epicurean saying:

Sic fac omnia tamquam spectet Epicurus!

So do all things as though watching were Epicurus!

https://newepicurean.com/happy-twentiet…prickly-cicero/