Posts by Cassius

  • "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting -This Week Chapter Twelve! (Sun, Feb 27th 2022, 8:00 pm-9:00 pm)

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    "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting -This Week Chapter Twelve!

    "A Few Days In Athens" Zoom Book Club Meeting. This week -Chapter Twelve!



    The rough agenda for our one hour session is:

    1 - Twenty Minute or so overview of Frances Wright, the Introduction, and the current chapter led by Cassius, Joshua, and any other volunteer regular forum participants who have read the whole book.

    2 - Brief introduction of everyone on the call. (We will go around the zoom list and ask everyone to say their first names (real or otherwise) and tell us about their background and…
    Sun, Feb 27th 2022, 8:00 pm – 9:00 pm
    Cassius
    March 6, 2022 at 2:42 PM

  • Welcome JGiro!

    Welcome @jgiro !

    This is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards / Rules of the Forum our Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean and our Posting Policy statements and associated posts.

    Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match some Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.

    All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from other viewpoints, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit by our community of happy living through the principles of Epicurean philosophy.

    One way you can be most assured of your time here being productive is to tell us a little about yourself and personal your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you have which would help us make sure that your questions and thoughts are addressed.

    In that regard we have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.

    1. "Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Norman DeWitt
    2. The Biography of Epicurus by Diogenes Laertius. This includes the surviving letters of Epicurus, including those to Herodotus, Pythocles, and Menoeceus.
    3. "On The Nature of Things" - by Lucretius (a poetic abridgement of Epicurus' "On Nature"
    4. "Epicurus on Pleasure" - By Boris Nikolsky
    5. The chapters on Epicurus in Gosling and Taylor's "The Greeks On Pleasure."
    6. Cicero's "On Ends" - Torquatus Section
    7. Cicero's "On The Nature of the Gods" - Velleius Section
    8. The Inscription of Diogenes of Oinoanda - Martin Ferguson Smith translation
    9. A Few Days In Athens" - Frances Wright
    10. Lucian Core Texts on Epicurus: (1) Alexander the Oracle-Monger, (2) Hermotimus
    11. Philodemus "On Methods of Inference" (De Lacy version, including his appendix on relationship of Epicurean canon to Aristotle and other Greeks)
    12. "The Greeks on Pleasure" -Gosling & Taylor Sections on Epicurus, especially the section on katastematic and kinetic pleasure which explains why ultimately this distinction was not of great significance to Epicurus.

    It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read.

    And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.

    Welcome to the forum!


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  • Social Media - Instant Messaging (Telegram, Matrix, Threema)

    Continued Technology Planning:

    This post is not meant to be a comment on politics, and for the time being I will continue to censor myself or any threads that publicly take sides in some of the existing world controversies. Of course feel free to discuss those privately - just not in the public threads. But as custodian of the forum I have to remain aware of relevant events, and I have to make several observations:

    (1) It is increasingly clear that de-platforming of ideas and groups that are not approved by societal elites is the next frontier in modern warfare and social control.

    (2) Throughout history, there have been few viewpoints which have been more disapproved by societal elites than Epicurean philosophy.

    (3) I understand that Julian Assange and perhaps others on the cutting edge of technological privacy are now recommending "Briar" ( https://briarproject.org/ ) as the most resilient instant messenger current available. It requires no telephone number or identifying information, and is free.

    (4) I intend to start experimenting with Briar, and I have set up a cassiusamicus account there. I expect this to remain strictly experimental and there is no need for anyone here use it. However if we have other "techies" here who like to keep on top of secure communication alternatives, please let me know what you think of Briar and/or other emerging alternatives.

    (5) I would also like to continue to explore backup plans and other disaster response scenarios to get the forum or at least its basic information back online if there is a disruption with our hosting provider, so once again any techies who have ideas on this subject, please feel free to comment in the thread or contact me privately.

  • Famous Epicureans Throughout History (Including Nate's Summary of Historic Epicureans)

    This is a thread to summarize work on identifying Famous Epicureans Throughout history. The key reference of those identified to date is Nate's work:

    File

    Epicurean Philosophers by Nathan H. Bartman

    A definitive list of our Epicurean friends throughout history. (For the latest updates: https://twentiers.com/2024/05/26/timeline/)
    Eikadistes
    March 6, 2022 at 6:04 PM

    This thread can be used for discussion of that work and suggestions for additions.

  • AFDIA - Chapter Four - Text and Discussion

    Had Don been present for this last AFDIA session, I bet he would have immediately remembered the session from "Dirty Harry."

    I don't have any other good suggestions at the moment, but it might be fun to think about other famous movie "near-Epicurean lines" like "Man's got to know his limitations" for a collection.

  • AFDIA - Chapter Four - Text and Discussion

    Also in this session, there is a discussion prompted by Scott about whether Epicurus' ultimate goal was really pleasure, or finding the truth about reality, and how those play together. I think that's an important topic but the discussion may not bring out this point well enough: that I think Epicurus decided that the two go hand in hand, because what is truly the most effective way of living pleasurably is to understand and engage with reality, rather than to indulge in fantasies (which is perhaps the main issue with the pleasure machine hypotheticals - they are not consistent with reality).

  • AFDIA - Chapter Four - Text and Discussion

    From the zoom discussion of book one to be posted shortly, here is the reference to my comment "A man's got to know his limitations." I am very sad that no one else could remember the attribution, and all I could remember was "Clint Eastwood." After tracking it down it's Dirty Harry from "Magnum Force" -

  • Episode One Hundred Twelve - Epicurus' Letter to Herodotus 01 (Introduction)

    Welcome to Episode One Hundred Twelve of Lucretius and Epicurus Today.

    This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world, and to Epicurus, the founder of the Epicurean School.

    I am your host Cassius, and together with our panelists from the EpicureanFriends.com forum, we'll walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we'll discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. We encourage you to study Epicurus for yourself, and we suggest the best place to start is the book "Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Canadian professor Norman DeWitt.

    If you find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where you will find a discussion thread for each of our podcast episodes and many other topics.

    At this point in our podcast we have completed our review of Lucretius' Poem, and we have covered the detailed presentation of Epicurean Ethics given by "Torquatus" in Book One of Cicero's On Ends. Today we turn to the higher-level presentation of these issues as found in Epicurus' own letter to Herodotus, which like Lucretius' poem covers a combination of the full system.

    Now let's join Joshua reading today's text:

    Bailey:

    [35] For those who are unable, Herodotus, to work in detail through all that I have written about nature, or to peruse the larger books which I have composed, I have already prepared at sufficient length an epitome of the whole system, that they may keep adequately in mind at least the most general principles in each department, in order that as occasion arises they may be able to assist themselves on the most important points, in so far as they undertake the study of nature. But those also who have made considerable progress in the survey of the main principles ought to bear in mind the scheme of the whole system set forth in its essentials. For we have frequent need of the general view, but not so often of the detailed exposition.

    [36] Indeed it is necessary to go back on the main principles, and constantly to fix in one’s memory enough to give one the most essential comprehension of the truth. And in fact the accurate knowledge of details will be fully discovered, if the general principles in the various departments are thoroughly grasped and borne in mind; for even in the case of one fully initiated the most essential feature in all accurate knowledge is the capacity to make a rapid use of observation and mental apprehension, and this can be done if everything is summed up in elementary principles and formulae. For it is not possible for anyone to abbreviate the complete course through the whole system, if he cannot embrace in his own mind by means of short formulae all that might be set out with accuracy in detail.

    [37] Wherefore since the method I have described is valuable to all those who are accustomed to the investigation of nature, I who urge upon others the constant occupation in the investigation of nature, and find my own peace chiefly in a life so occupied, have composed for you another epitome on these lines, summing up the first principles of the whole doctrine.

    Hicks:

    [35] For those who are unable to study carefully all my physical writings or to go into the longer treatises at all, I have myself prepared an epitome of the whole system, Herodotus, to preserve in the memory enough of the principal doctrines, to the end that on every occasion they may be able to aid themselves on the most important points, so far as they take up the study of Physics. Those who have made some advance in the survey of the entire system ought to fix in their minds under the principal headings an elementary outline of the whole treatment of the subject. For a comprehensive view is often required, the details but seldom.

    [36] To the former, then – the main heads – we must continually return, and must memorize them so far as to get a valid conception of the facts, as well as the means of discovering all the details exactly when once the general outlines are rightly understood and remembered; since it is the privilege of the mature student to make a ready use of his conceptions by referring every one of them to elementary facts and simple terms. For it is impossible to gather up the results of continuous diligent study of the entirety of things, unless we can embrace in short formulas and hold in mind all that might have been accurately expressed even to the minutest detail.

    [37] Hence, since such a course is of service to all who take up natural science, I, who devote to the subject my continuous energy and reap the calm enjoyment of a life like this, have prepared for you just such an epitome and manual of the doctrines as a whole.

    In the first place, Herodotus, you must understand what it is that words denote, in order that by reference to this we may be in a position to test opinions, inquiries, or problems, so that our proofs may not run on untested ad infinitum, nor the terms we use be empty of meaning.

    Yonge:

    [35] For those who are unable to study carefully all my physical writings or to go into the longer treatises at all, I have myself prepared an epitome of the whole system, Herodotus, to preserve in the memory enough of the principal doctrines, to the end that on every occasion they may be able to aid themselves on the most important points, so far as they take up the study of Physics. Those who have made some advance in the survey of the entire system ought to fix in their minds under the principal headings an elementary outline of the whole treatment of the subject. For a comprehensive view is often required, the details but seldom.

    [36] To the former, then - the main heads - we must continually return, and must memorize them so far as to get a valid conception of the facts, as well as the means of discovering all the details exactly when once the general outlines are rightly understood and remembered; since it is the privilege of the mature student to make a ready use of his conceptions by referring every one of them to elementary facts and simple terms. For it is impossible to gather up the results of continuous diligent study of the entirety of things, unless we can embrace in short formulas and hold in mind all that might have been accurately expressed even to the minutest detail.

    [37] Hence, since such a course is of service to all who take up natural science, I, who devote to the subject my continuous energy and reap the calm enjoyment of a life like this, have prepared for you just such an epitome and manual of the doctrines as a whole. "In the first place, Herodotus, you must understand what it is that words denote, in order that by reference to this we may be in a position to test opinions, inquiries, or problems, so that our proofs may not run on untested ad infinitum, nor the terms we use be empty of meaning.


    Links to the full Letter:

  • Article by Voorhoeve: Epicurus on Pleasure, A Complete Life, and Death: A Defense

    Quote from Kalosyni

    1) pleasure (and pain) as guiding choice and avoidance, and living a full social lifestyle, from an extroverted disposition and a physically visceral experience.


    2) pleasure (and pain) as guiding choice and avoidance, and living a quiet and reserved lifestyle, from an introverted disposition and a mentally rich experience.


    So how you choose to live most pleasantly is coming from your in-born nature (or nurtured) disposition.

    Yes - that's always a major point. Diffferent people have different circumstances, and different immediate needs and wants.

    Sometimes you're in a "defensive" position and need to focus on getting rid of pain; sometimes you're in a more "offensive" position when your life is pretty much in order, and you can afford to be more aggressive in pursuing specific pleasures you'd like to pursue.

    There's no one-size-fits-all approach that applies to everyone, everywhere, all the time. If you're "sick" by all means get treatment; if you're healthy, by all means go skydiving if that's what you'd like to do.

    How's this for a "chess" analogy?

    When you're "sick" and you are under attack from specific pains, you pretty much have your chessboard laid out for you. You are close to being in checkmate and you have to focus immediately on the response to the attack.

    When you're "healthy" you still have a chessboard, because life doesn't have unlimited options even for the most rich and most powerful, but you're more like at the opening of the game, with both sides equally equipped, and you have the first move -- you can choose many different options, and it's up to you to decide among them.

  • Article by Voorhoeve: Epicurus on Pleasure, A Complete Life, and Death: A Defense

    Not surprising he cites Warren, and not surprising that he tends toward the conclusion that the Epicurean, once he has become a tranquil sage, has no motive to regard death as a "comparative evil." This is ambiguous, but I can't agree with it because it seems clear that Epicurus saw no contradiction in holding that state of being dead is not painful, but, at the same time, it is undesirable to suffer an early death.


Finding Things At EpicureanFriends.com

Here is a list of suggested search strategies:

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  • Search Tool - icon is located on the top right of every page. Note that the search box asks you what section of the forum you'd like to search. If you don't know, select "Everywhere."
  • Search By Key Tags - curated to show frequently-searched topics.
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