Text And Reference Links - Lucretius Today Podcast

  • MAIN LINK: The EpicureanFriends Reference Edition of Lucretius, containing the 1743 Daniel Browne, the Munro, and the Bailey Editions

    Table of Topics For the "Lucretius Today" Podcast


    1743 Daniel Browne
    One Two Three Four Five Six
    Munro One Two Three Four Five Six
    Munro Notes
    One Two Three Four
    Five Six
    Bailey One Two Three Four Five Six
    Bailey Notes
    One Two Three Four Five Six
    Munro Latin
    One Two Three Four Five Six

    Note: The links in this table should be correct. Some of the links on page two of the current pdf version need to be updated. Most are correct, but the links to the Bailey and Munro notes sections for each book require updating.

  • Cassius

    Changed the title of the thread from “Scheduling Thread For Lucretius Book Review / Podcast” to “Text And Reference Links - Lucretius Today Podcast”.
  • I am trying to upgrade the website's connections to good copies of Lucretius, and also to provide a "table of contents" to the important topics.

    I am working on that at the following link, which as of now has better material than the corresponding pages on the wiki site: Lucretius At the "Epicurus College" Course Materials page.

    This site now contains the Brown, Munro, and Bailey public domain versions, with paragraph numbers set to correspond to the Loeb edition.

    The "Table of Topics" needs refinement, and each point needs to begin with a paragraph section where the reference can be found.


    I did mention Perseus at this page at the very top: https://epicuruscollege.com/co…terial/Map-Lucretius-DRN/

    But i have to say I am prejudiced against the Leonard edition because it's the first one I tried to read, for years, and always found it too "flowery" (maybe "poetic" is the word).

    And I confess further you have hit a raw nerve. For some reason I cannot get out of my mind an unforgiveable choice of words that I always choke over, right at the beginning of Book One:

    "For thee the daedal Earth bears scented flowers...."

    That just does it for me for the whole translation. With ALL the intricacy of the Roman allusions, with ALL the difficulty of the text, with ALL the difficulty of the subject matter, do we have to dredge up an obscure word like DAEDAL which no one translator uses?

    BROWN: Thee, Goddess, Thee the winds avoid; the clouds fly Thee and Thy approach. With various art the Earth, for Thee, affords her sweetest flowers;

    MUNRO: Before thee, goddess, flee the winds, the clouds of heaven, before thee and thy advent; for thee earth, manifold in works, puts forth sweet-smelling flowers...

    BAILEY: Thou, goddess, thou dost turn to flight the winds and the clouds of heaven, thou at thy coming; for thee earth, the quaint artificer, puts forth her sweet-scented flowers; for thee the levels of ocean smile, and the sky,

    MARTIN FERGUSON SMITH: You, goddess, at your coming hush the winds and scatter the clouds; for you the creative earth thrusts up fragrant flowers; for you the smooth stretches of the ocean smile, and the sky, tranquil now, is flooded with effulgent light.

    HUMPHRIES: All things conceived, all things that face the light

    In their bright visit, the grain-bearing fields,

    The marinered oceans, where the wind and cloud

    Are quiet in your presence - all proclaim

    Your gift, without which they are nothingness.

    For you that sweet artificer, the earth,

    Submits her flowers, and for you the deep

    Of ocean smiles, and the calm heaven shines

    With shoreless light.

    I can handle "quaint artificer," I can handle "sweet artificer," I can handle "manifold in works" and all the rest.

    But darn it do NOT ask me to go looking up the meaning of some obscure ENGLISH word just because you want to make your version of Lucretius sound poetic!

    And if already in the first paragraph I can't trust Leonard to play fair with me, then I'm sorry, I can't ask anyone else to wade through that nonsense.

    I will admit only that in recent years since I've found that he's at Perseus I sometimes am willing to use him now, but I can't do it with confidence because I never know when another of those darn DAEDALS is going to turn up!


  • I expect to be forever identified with "Daedal" from now on --- but that reminds me I wanted to check the Latin to see if there is possibly an excuse for that word there....

  • Ah that word IS in the Latin! So I suppose maybe I can ratchet down some of my criticism ---

    However ultimately if the point of a translation is to be understandble in the common language I am afraid I still have to rate this choice a failure. I just don't recognize any form of "daedala" as coming down to us in modern English well enough to make this a workable choice. Anyone using that word or a form of it in daily life other than Don? :)

    The only thing it conveys to me the nonsense word "diddle" which is pretty far from the intended meaning, I gather.

  • This is interesting - never heard of this either but seems easy to think that there's some relation to the latin. Sounds like maybe Munro got his "cunning artificer" this way?

    Daedala - Wikipedia


    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Jump to navigationJump to searchFor the ancient city, see Daedala (city).

    In Ancient Greece, the Daedala (Greek: δαίδαλα) was a festival of reconciliation that was held every few years in honor of Hera, consort of the supreme god Zeus at Plataea, in Boeotia, being one of the major cults of the city.

    According to Pausanias, there was a "lesser Daedala" (Δαίδαλα μικρά), celebrated every four years or so exclusively by the Plataeans, and a "greater Daedala" (Δαίδαλα μεγάλα), celebrated by all of Boeotians every fourteen cycles (approx. 60 years).

    In the lesser Daedala, the people of Plataea went to an ancient oak grove and exposed pieces of cooked meat to ravens, attentively watching upon which tree any of the birds, after taking a piece of meat, would settle. Out of this tree they carved an image, and having it dressed as a bride, they set it on a bullock cart with a bridesmaid beside it. The image seems then to have been drawn to the bank of the river Asopus and back to the town, attended by a cheering crowd.[1]

    These adorned xoana were also called "daidala" (δάιδαλα or δαιδάλεια),[2] with the connotation that they were "crafted" or "fashioned" (compare Daedalus, "daidalos" (δαίδαλος) meaning "cunning worker").

  • The Poetic versions that seem to be best liked today are Humphries and Stallings,

    Stallings renders it "crafty" -

    The winds flee from you, Goddess, your arrival puts to flight

    The clouds of heaven. For you, the crafty earth contrives sweet flowers,

    For you, the oceans laugh, the skies grow peaceful after showers,