Just a note on 'apiqoros coming from Epicurean and not Epicurus, remember that the ancient Greek for "Epicurean" is Ἐπικούρειος (Epikoureios) so both Epicurean and Epicurus end in sigma (ς "s") in Greek. So it seems to me both are viable options although the group name does seem to make more sense.
Posts by Don
Episode 218 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available. In this episode we address: Can an Epicurean Not Distinguish Between Greater and Lesser Pleasures and Pains?
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Just saw this thread listed in "Research Projects" and finally downloaded "A Diachronic Study of the 3Apiqoros in Rabbinic Literature" by Jenny R. Labendz. Here are some excerpts and notes (Quotes are from Labendz paper unless otherwise noted):
"Tannaim were the rabbinic sages whose views are recorded in the Mishnah, from approximately 10–220 CE. The period of the Tannaim, also referred to as the Mishnaic period, lasted about 210 years." - Wikipeda (Tannaim)
The paper continues that, although the origin of the name 'apiqoros definitely originally referred to Epicureans, by the 4th century CE the Greek philosophical schools (Stoicism, Epicureanism, Scepticism) had "basically disappeared." The amoraim (Jewish scholars of 200-500 CE) primarily in Babylonia and Israel, probably never encountered actual Epicureans. "..these Rabbis were not bound to maintain that 'apiqoros meant Epicurean, even if they understood the historical and philosophical meaning of that term. It was obvious to them... that an 'apiqoros was something decidely negative, but in the absence of real Epicureans, they could, and did, give free reign to their imaginations to construct new definitions."
"Modern philologists are generally in agreement that the word 'apiqoros is a Hebrew transliteration of the Greek word for either Epicurus or Epicurean." It appears that the consensus is that the generic word Epicurean was the one adapted into Hebrew.
"Epicureans flourished in Palestine...and they missionized ardently." The author cites DeWitt, Epicurus and His Philosophy, 3, and Howard Jones, The Epicurean Tradition (Routledge, 1989), 64, for this information. "Since the Epicureans missionized vigorously, the Rabbis may have encountered them somewhat regularly, and might have been able to read or at least hear the epitomes that encapsulated Epicurean philosophy and theology." The author cites Saul Lieberman's Hellenism in Jewish Palestine (1962) in several places:
However, the consensus seems to be that since the tannaim literature doesn't employ any Greek philosophical terms "the Rabbi's knowledge of Greek philosophy was limited." ...
Even with this basic knowledge, the Rabbis knew enough to consider the Epicureans "heretical, such as the Epicurean denial of divine providence."
The author notes that this mishnah presumes the reader knows who/what an Epicurean is... later amoraim who inherit the term have to "reconstruct its meaning."
The author posits that the Rabbis encountered the Epicureans would most likely have debated them. The intellectual Rabbis were likely targets for Epicurean missionizing and for the pamphlets the Epicureans distributed. So, the Rabbis goals was to know how to counter these basic Epicurean arguments.
Mishnah Sanhedrin 10:1 (excerpt)
Again, it is assumed that the reader will know who/what an Epicurean is, and this person is someone with whom the student will interact. "Here, the student is being warned against the consequence of actually being an Epicurean himself. This may be what motivates Judah Goldin's assertion that 'apiqoros refers specifically to a Jewish Epicurean." (Goldin, Studies in Midrash and Related Literature (New York: The Jewish Publication Society, 1988, 62).
"Several things can be learned from this mishnah about the tannaitic conception of the Epicurean. First...God is the one who punishes the Epicurean. The problematic nature of being an Epicurean is the theoretical or intellectual rather than practical ... the Epicurean, who denies divine reward and punishment, and is thereby excluded from divine reward in the world to come." The mishnah goes on to say that the Epicureans "says there is no way to learn resurrection of the dead...that the Torah is not from Heaven." These are "essential religious truths" according to the Rabbis. So the "salient charateristics of Epicureanism" were the "outright denial of providence" and not their missionary efforts or some metaphysical, philosophical theories.
Tosefta Sanhedrin 13:5 lists a whole list of ne'er-do-wells condemned by the Rabbis: sectarians, apostates, informers, Epicureans, those who have denied the Torah, those who separate from the ways of the community, and those who have denied the resurrection of the dead. "Based on the tannaitic familiarity with Epicureanism discussed above... it is plausible that the Rabbis' disdain towards Epicureanism encompassed more than the single heresy of denial of divine providence."
The author states that "we may characterize the early Rabbis' understanding and use of the term. An 'apiqoros was a member of the missionizing Epicurean school of philosophy which, among other heresies or impieties, denied divine providence. ... Not much later, Rabbis were less sure of the meaning of the word 'apiqoros."
That gets us up to pp. 175-184. The remainder of the paper traces the use of the word in other texts, but also shows that the writers were less and less aware of what an acutal Epicurean was and rather more able to foist whatever heresies they wanted onto the term 'apiqoros including disrespect for the Torah or simple irreverence. But there is no denying the term originally referred to our philosophical forebears.
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FYI
TRAVELS WITH EPICURUS | Kirkus ReviewsA late-in-life reflection and modern-day philosophical exploration of what it means to age authentically.www.kirkusreviews.com -
Sedley's articles and in the appendices to the DeLacy book "On Methods of Inference"
Cassius : Are those all linked somewhere on the forum site here?
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Godfrey, absolutely! In a way this is my preparation for revisiting the rather difficult On Signs.
That text has been on my list for too long. Maybe your revisitation will spur me to try digging into it.
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And the CC licensing is not revocable, per the CC site.
(It's a similar license under which I released the Menoikeus commentary. Mine has: This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/ )
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They appear to have changed the license under which it's published:
Creative Commons:
Creative Common License - CC Creative Common License - BY Creative Common License - NC Creative Common License - ND
This content is Open Access and distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution licence CC-BY-NC-ND 4.0 https://creativecommons.org/creativelicenses
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Don, regarding ἡ ἐπιμαρτύρησις et al., I know we have -ησις as a general suffix to form abstract nouns. But I feel that ἡ ῥῆσις "saying" "manner of speaking" must also part of the construction. I cannot quite tell right now if this is obviously there or if I am forcing it.
I could see that, but then ῥῆσις has the -σις abstract suffix. I think the -σις is just doing the work of "nouning" (to coin a clunky word) the μᾰρτῠρέω.
ῥῆσις: Etymology From stem ῥη- of εἴρω (eírō, “to say”) + -σις (-sis, abstract noun suffix).
Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, μαρτυ^ρ-έω
Derived terms:
ἀντιμᾰρτῠρέω (antimarturéō)
ἀπομᾰρτῠρέω (apomarturéō)
δῐᾰμᾰρτῠρέω (diamarturéō)
εἰσμᾰρτῠρέω (eismarturéō)
ἐκμᾰρτῠρέω (ekmarturéō)
ἐπιμᾰρτῠρέω (epimarturéō)
κᾰτᾰμᾰρτῠρέω (katamarturéō)
προσμᾰρτῠρέω (prosmarturéō)
σῠμμᾰρτῠρέω (summarturéō)
ὑπομᾰρτῠρέω (hupomarturéō)
ψευδομᾰρτῠρέω (pseudomarturéō) -
Live to 120? I’d rather go for quality not quantity of life… | Eva WisemanStaying alive longer is only worth it if the quality of life itself is valuablewww.theguardian.com
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I think Philonides was the court advisor I was trying to think of:
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And here's a paper my Dr. Fish:
The Closing Columns of Philodemus’ ON THE GOOD KING ACCORDING TO HOMER, PHERC. 1507 COLS. 95-98 (= COLS. 40-43 DORANDI)This article presents a reedition of the nal columns of Philodemus’ On the Good King According to Homer (columns 95-98 = cols. 40-43 Dorandi). In the nal…www.academia.eduAnd yes I fully realize I'm not responding to Peter Konstans 's specific questions yet. Patience
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Here's McConnell's paper on Academia.edu
Epicureans on kingshipDiogenes Laertius lists in his catalogue of Epicurus' works (10.28) a treatise On Kingship, which is unfortunately no longer extant. Owing to the…www.academia.edu -
Thanks, Bryan.
No great insights here from me tonight, but just linguistic trivia:
ἰδιοτήτος idiotetos > which is related to where English gets the word "idiot" meant in Ancient Greek more like - as Bryan notes from Sedley - individuality or being apart from the masses, a private person, one not engaged in public affairs. One who wasn't engaged in public affairs was an ἰδιώτης idiotes. It could also be used patronizingly for "ignorant person," from idios "one's own"
ἐπιμαρτυρήσεων and the rest > epi-martyreseon > note the root "martyr" in the Greek. That's the same word used for the Christians killed "for their faith" (debatable, but I'll let it slide). They were "witnesses" to their religion, they showed others how their religion made them act - even unto death. So, that idea of providing evidence is intrinsic to the Greek words with the root -martyr-, then you add on the prefixes and change the meaning.
Language is fun
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or made any sort of exhortation about how people should best govern themselves
They did have thoughts on how those who govern should act.
There's a missing book of Epicurus titled Of Kingship.
Philodemus wrote On The Good King According to Homer.
There were Epicurean advisors to kings.
It seems to me they had specific ideas on how to govern but they would rather advise rulers than rule themselves.
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PS. On a more serious note, I literally just finished listening to the entire episode. I am humbled and honored by Joshua 's use of my translation and commentary, and I'm grateful that it is being useful. I'm still hoping to record a study session series on the letter before the end of the year. 🤞
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https://www.angio.net/pi/bigpi.cgi
Epicurus (Ἐπίκουρος Epikouros): 341–270 BC
The string 341270 occurs at position 1,860,579 counting from the first digit after the decimal point. The 3. is not counted.
The string and surrounding digits 08124239256923940821 341270 10920235469290643125 -
I need to find the proper cite for this one, which needs addition here in this thread.
11. The stable condition of well-being in the body and the sure hope of its continuance holds the fullest and surest joy for those who can rightly calculate it.
Where does your "11" come from? This sounds like just an alternative translation of Fragment 68. To those who are able to reason it out, the highest and surest joy is found in the stable health of the body and a firm confidence in keeping it.
τὸ γὰρ εὐσταθὲς σαρκὸς κατάστημα καὶ τὸ περὶ ταύτης πιστὸν ἔλπισμα τὴν ἀκροτάτην χαρὰν καὶ βεβαιοτάτην ἔχει τοῖς ἐπιλογίζεσθαι δυναμένοις.
From Attalus:
[ U68 ]
Plutarch, That Epicurus actually makes a pleasant life impossible, 4, p. 1089D: It is this, I believe, that has driven them, seeing for themselves the absurdities to which they were reduced, to take refuge in the "painlessness" and the "stable condition of the flesh," supposing that the pleasurable life is found in thinking of this state as about to occur in people or as being achieved; for the "stable and settled condition of the flesh," and the "trustworthy expectation" of this condition contain, they say, the highest and the most assured delight for men who are able to reflect. Now to begin with, observe their conduct here, how they keep decanting this "pleasure" or "painlessness" or "stable condition" of theirs back and forth, from body to mind and then once more from mind to body.
Aulus Gellius, Attic Nights, IX.5.2: Epicurus makes pleasure the highest good but defines it as sarkos eustathes katastema, or "a well-balanced condition of the body."