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Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 9:49 PM Replied to the thread Iliustrations and Analogies For Explaining the "Two And Only Two Feelings" Argument.Post[…]
It 's not easy to get comfortable with this approach because it's a difficult subject to get your arms around, but that's exactly why we have to get our arms around it.
it is going to strike most people as discretionary and debatable whether to divide… -
Todd
May 20, 2026 at 9:23 PM Replied to the thread Iliustrations and Analogies For Explaining the "Two And Only Two Feelings" Argument.PostI was going to go through the some of the other examples, but I've realized that I just don't like this article at all.
I think it is just going to create more confusion rather than clarifying anything.
We can discuss this more if you want, but I won't… -
Todd
May 20, 2026 at 8:28 PM Replied to the thread Iliustrations and Analogies For Explaining the "Two And Only Two Feelings" Argument.PostThe Full Vessel
This one doesn't make sense to me.
I've always liked this example, and I think it was useful to me when I was first learning about Epicurus.
My understanding of the cup model (which could be incorrect):
The cup represents us or our life at… -
Don
May 20, 2026 at 8:06 PM Replied to the thread Clement on Epicurus' And Other Philosophers Opinions As To The Chief Good.PostWhat's your source for the translation?
PS Never mind. I looked at a bunch of webpages, and they all started out exactly the same way. There must be a readily available public domain translation everyone uses. -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 7:22 PM Posted the thread Clement on Epicurus' And Other Philosophers Opinions As To The Chief Good.ThreadI came across a text today that I would drop in here as it's either totally new to me or I had forgotten it. I don't know whether this translation is reliable either as it seems clunky. But it came to my attention in regard to Hieronymus. It seems… -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 7:01 PM Replied to the thread Iliustrations and Analogies For Explaining the "Two And Only Two Feelings" Argument.Post[…]
That is the huge problem that requires that whenever this is discussed an explanation is given. From the point of view of "any individual moment or experience," as in PD3, any feeling is either pain or pleasure but not both or either mixed or both or… -
Todd
May 20, 2026 at 6:50 PM Replied to the thread Iliustrations and Analogies For Explaining the "Two And Only Two Feelings" Argument.Post[…]
Are they though?
It seems more correct to say complete absence of pain is perfect / complete / the limit of / the fullness of pleasure.
Or you could say a reduction of pain is an increase of pleasure. Or a given sensation is either pleasant or painful.
… -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 6:49 PM Replied to the thread Iliustrations and Analogies For Explaining the "Two And Only Two Feelings" Argument.Post[…]
While oil and water don't mix, i doubt it is immediately clear that there is an obvious context in which those are the only two alternatives. Even if you're talking salad dressing there's probably spices and other things that i as a non-foodie don't… -
Bryan
May 20, 2026 at 6:11 PM Replied to the thread Iliustrations and Analogies For Explaining the "Two And Only Two Feelings" Argument.PostI always have in mind this quote of Metrodorus (from Plutarch in Non Posse 1091 A):
"This very thing is the good: escaping the bad – because it is not possible for the good to be placed anywhere, when nothing painful or distressing is further withdrawing." -
Don
May 20, 2026 at 6:04 PM Replied to the thread Iliustrations and Analogies For Explaining the "Two And Only Two Feelings" Argument.PostHmmm... I'm not entirely onboard with some of your examples. I'll try to take a look over the next few days. I'd think you'd want to go down the path of oil and water. -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 5:29 PM Replied to the thread Iliustrations and Analogies For Explaining the "Two And Only Two Feelings" Argument.PostOn this one also: In case it's not obvious from the word "illustration," I am particularly interested in identifying word pictures that can be turned into actual pictures, so that we can "illustrate" the point graphically in pictures that are even more… -
Cassius
ThreadMay 20, 2026 at 5:24 PM My attention today got diverted over to the "Absence of Pain" Substack article, but when I started the day my focus was elswhere. Initially, I was trying to come up with better and clearer ways to describe the principle that when you have a universe of… -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 5:12 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of Blog Article.Post[…]
I'm going to get to this in a future rewrite as well. -
Todd
May 20, 2026 at 4:23 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of Blog Article.PostNice. -
Don
May 20, 2026 at 4:06 PM Replied to the thread Happy Twentieth of May 2026!.PostA Joyous Twentieth!
Completely agree, Griffin !
Your post and Kalosyni 's image made me want to go back and check on VS27 and it's even better than I remembered.
VS27 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 with some commentary
On the one hand, in the case of other… -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 2:56 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of Blog Article.PostAgain, Todd, thank you very much for the suggestion. The new section below has been added.Argument 6: The Ancient World Already Had a Name for “Absence of Pain” as the Goal — and It Was Not “Epicurean”
This argument cuts to the heart of the historical… -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 2:05 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of Blog Article.Postgreat comments thank you! -
Todd
May 20, 2026 at 1:59 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of Blog Article.PostCassius , I came across this old post of yours:
[…]
To me, this is a strong argument against the absence of pain view. I'm not sure if others would find this as persuasive, or if it would fit well in the article though. There is also this quote from… -
Todd
May 20, 2026 at 12:24 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.Post[…]
I wasn't aware of that, but if true, I would say it is an example of a more general phenomenon that is not specific to scholars of Epicurus.
Ever since the vernacular languages displaced Latin as a common language for intellectuals, there have been… -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 11:03 AM Replied to the thread Discussion of Blog Article.PostIt is gratifying to have a generally appreciative comment on this post from Greg Sadler, whose videos I have frequently watched, and who views I very much respect.
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Griffin
May 20, 2026 at 10:57 AM Replied to the thread Happy Twentieth of May 2026!.PostHappy Twentieth!
VS27 is a beautiful reminder of why this philosophy is different from everything else. The pleasure isn't deferred until after you've learned something. It's happening right now in the act of learning itself. -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 10:56 AM Posted the thread Discussion of Blog Article.ThreadThis thread is for discussion of: "Why It Is Incorrect to Say Epicurean Philosophy Is Primarily About 'Absence of Pain'"
epicureanfriends.com/wcf/blog/entry/75/ -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 10:54 AM Wrote the blog article Why It Is Incorrect to Say Epicurean Philosophy Is Primarily About 'Absence of Pain'.Blog ArticleThe Claim and Why It Matters
The claim that Epicurean philosophy is “primarily about the absence of pain” — that the Epicurean goal is a passive, featureless neutral state free from disturbance — is one of the most consequential misreadings in the… -
Eikadistes
May 20, 2026 at 9:31 AM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.PostBe on the look out for AI-generated material, guys.
Those of us who used to be graphic designers and authors have lost our agency. -
Titus
May 20, 2026 at 8:45 AM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.Post[…]
I meant an "English speaker" thing. Sometimes the interpretation of topics is related to the use of a language, which influences their interpretations. I corrected my original post to "English speaker thing". -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 8:32 AM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.Post[…]
I don't know that it is limited to England by any means, but I'd say that England seems to produce the highest concentration of it. Further, it goes deeper than the "stiff upper lip" and "keep calm and carry on" style of Stoicism that became… -
Titus
May 20, 2026 at 8:22 AM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.Post[…]
My interpretation has always been that of the natural desires being key factors to focus on. I somewhat would agree that they are "innate" in the sense that they are indiscutible and inherently connected with our being. Not caring for one's health and… -
Cassius
May 20, 2026 at 8:10 AM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.PostI've posted the list of arguments on substack:
https://open.substack.com/pub/epicureanf…omeOnShare=true -
Kalosyni
May 20, 2026 at 7:56 AM Posted the thread Happy Twentieth of May 2026!.Thread
Happy Twentieth Everyone!
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Cassius
May 19, 2026 at 3:43 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.PostI should have realized when I came up with an odd number of nine arguments that i was missing something.
I have now added in a tenth, which I actually think is one of the most compelling of all. I should not have forgotten it. -
Cassius
May 19, 2026 at 2:08 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.PostSo I can keep track of it I have added an easier-to-read format of it here. This is the version I will be updating going forward:
https://epicurustoday.com/02-key-sources/notabsenceofpain/ -
Cassius
May 19, 2026 at 1:45 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.PostGood luck Don. Always good to try when there is any hope of success. Here is a summary of the major arguments that appear scattered in many places on this site:
[…]
"Why It Is Incorrect to Say Epicurean Philosophy Is Primarily About 'Absence of Pain'"The
… -
Don
May 19, 2026 at 1:23 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.PostSo, here's the question: Do we engage with the author at his Substack comments? Is it useful to do so?
Okay. I waded into the fray at the Substack for better or worse. -
Cassius
May 19, 2026 at 12:34 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.PostAlso (and there are many other arguments) it is not proper to take a single sentence and not consider it in the context of the full analysis of pleasure as to whether it has a limit, which is what Plato had argued in Philebus . The main reason to… -
Cassius
May 19, 2026 at 12:05 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.PostBecause he is ignoring the well documented point, stressed by Torquayus as well, that there are only two feelings, pleasure and pain, and that the absence of one is the presence of the other.
He is talking as if less pain is something different and… -
Patrikios
May 19, 2026 at 10:38 AM Replied to the thread Discussion of "Untroubled" - Epicurean-Focused Substack.Post -
Eikadistes
May 18, 2026 at 9:16 PM Replied to the thread Superstition Ain't the Way.Post[…]
You're reading me perfectly.
They told me to completely bail on the first 80%, and then amp up my hyper-political examples for the latter 20%. When I realized that I ran past their word limit with reckless abandon (and was just going to re-present it… -
Cassius
May 18, 2026 at 7:34 PM Replied to the thread Sidgwickianism - Henry Sidgwick and Utilitarian Analysis vs. Epicurus.Post -
Cassius
May 18, 2026 at 7:29 PM Commented on the file No Politics*.Comment (File) -
Cassius
May 18, 2026 at 7:27 PM Posted the thread Eikadistes Article Discussion - 'No Politics'.Thread -
Eikadistes
May 18, 2026 at 6:25 PM Added the file No Politics*.FileI was inspired to dig deeper into fragments on law, justice, and society.
In particular, I'm tried to summarize Philódēmos' advice in On Frank Criticism and Hérmarkhos' observations about law and the function of legislation in Against Empedoklḗs. I… -
Eikadistes
May 18, 2026 at 6:04 PM Posted the thread Did People Naturally Want to F—k Deities?.ThreadI know. It’s something you’ve been asking yourself for a long time. I’ve only recently come across this consideration.
Here are a few points the Boys considered in the extant works:- They are natural beings.
- Their form is human.
- Their image is human.
- They are
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Kalosyni
May 18, 2026 at 2:16 PM Replied to the thread Welcome RoseQuartzAxolotl!.PostWelcome to the forum! RoseQuartzAxolotl -
Cassius
May 18, 2026 at 5:19 AM Posted the thread Sidgwickianism - Henry Sidgwick and Utilitarian Analysis vs. Epicurus.ThreadSince the terms psychological hedonism and ethical hedonism are of great interest to some, and those terms appear to originate with Henry Sidgwick, it's probably helpful to have a thread on who Sidgwick was and what he was doing with his categories, and… -
Martin
May 18, 2026 at 1:47 AM Replied to the thread Welcome RoseQuartzAxolotl!.PostWelcome RoseQuartzAxolotl! -
wbernys
May 17, 2026 at 7:54 PM Replied to the thread Welcome RoseQuartzAxolotl!.PostHappy to have you here RoseQuartzAxolotl ! -
RoseQuartzAxolotl
May 17, 2026 at 4:56 PM Replied to the thread Welcome RoseQuartzAxolotl!.PostThank you Cassius, I am glad to be here. -
Cassius
May 17, 2026 at 4:53 PM Replied to the thread Welcome RoseQuartzAxolotl!.PostThat's a great opening email. You are very welcome here! -
Cassius
May 17, 2026 at 4:53 PM Replied to the thread Welcome RoseQuartzAxolotl!.PostRoseQuartzAxolotl (that's quite a user name!) tells us this:
Hello Cassius and all!
I'm 34 and I live in the Chicagoland area with my husband and our Shetland Sheepdog. I work on the systems side of education.
I grew up fairly conservative and fundamental… -
Cassius
May 17, 2026 at 4:51 PM Posted the thread Welcome RoseQuartzAxolotl!.ThreadWelcome RoseQuartzAxolotl
There is one last step to complete your registration:
All new registrants must post a response to this message here in this welcome thread (we do this in order to minimize spam registrations).
You must post your response within…
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