ALL CURRENT AND PROSPECTIVE PARTICIPANTS SHOULD READ THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT OF FORUM EDITORIAL POLICY: "Against Katastematic Supremacy - Pleasure Is A Unified Good, Not A House Divided Against Itself."
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Kalosyni
PostJuly 18, 2026 at 7:26 AM Just for fun, my illustration of many pleasures:
epicureanfriends.com/wcf/galle…-many-facets-of-pleasure/
I may need to update this (which I made back in 2024) and add more subtitles: "pleasures of the mind" (and which can include planning… -
Cassius
July 18, 2026 at 4:44 AM Posted the thread Episode 343 - EATAQ25 - Not Yet Recorded.ThreadWelcome to Episode 343 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the… -
Cassius
PostJuly 17, 2026 at 3:19 PM […]
There's absolutely no doubt --most people are scared to death of the term, and they would never want to be associated with a philosophy of pleasure - especially in Academia.
Since there's a lot of criticism of negativity embedded in this discussion I… -
Cassius
ThreadJuly 17, 2026 at 3:07 PM -
Cassius
Blog ArticleJuly 17, 2026 at 3:05 PM The Passage You've Seen a Thousand Times, and What It Actually Says
You have almost certainly seen this sentence before, even if you've never read a word of it: "Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit, amet, consectetur, adipisci… -
Cassius
PostJuly 17, 2026 at 1:27 PM Dave's questions and this thread have me constructively focusing on the issue of what IS really important to focus on. I'm working on some new thoughts for articles about the general issue of the public perception of what "hedonism" means and how much… -
Cassius
PostJuly 17, 2026 at 12:37 PM […]
That's one way of looking at it, maybe like there is more than one way to view pleasure.
Yes if we respect Epicurus' mind and person, as Lucretius did for example, that's a good guardrail. But just like Epicurus himself as a real person, we all have… -
DaveT
PostJuly 17, 2026 at 11:45 AM -
Cassius
ThreadJuly 17, 2026 at 10:38 AM Eikadistes lets us know about his recent work:
[…] -
Cassius
PostJuly 17, 2026 at 10:29 AM Pacatus i think your post does a good job of summarizing where we need to be.
[…]
Correct. These terms and questions can be discussed without advocacy of the opposing position, and the very existence of the controversy is an "elephant in the room" that… -
Pacatus
PostJuly 17, 2026 at 9:16 AM […]
This seems to me to be a balanced and common-sense approach.
I didn’t read the policy thread as forbidding any and all discussion of kinetic/katastematic pleasure (or aponia/atarxia). They’ve been batted around on here since I’ve been here –… -
Kalosyni
July 17, 2026 at 8:29 AM Replied to the thread Welcome WilliamJ!.PostWilliamJ welcome to the forum! -
Martin
July 17, 2026 at 2:31 AM Replied to the thread Welcome WilliamJ!.PostWelcome William! -
Cassius
PostJuly 16, 2026 at 10:41 PM Dave - You wrote:
[…]
it appears to me that we can include among those who would not agree with that Professor Kelly Aronsen in her 2019 Health and Hedonism in Plato and Epicurus. There, Aronsen parses kinetic vs. katastematic entirely differently from the… -
Cassius
July 16, 2026 at 8:30 PM Replied to the thread Welcome WilliamJ!.PostGlad to have you William. -
WilliamJ
July 16, 2026 at 7:43 PM Replied to the thread Welcome WilliamJ!.PostI want to thank Cassius and the members of EpicureanFriends for the opportunity to access and participate in this website.
In brief, my interest is that of someone who decades ago spent several years immersed in ancient Greek philosophy. Recently I… -
Cassius
July 16, 2026 at 7:17 PM Posted the thread Welcome WilliamJ!.ThreadWelcome WilliamJ !
There is one last step to complete your registration: All new registrants must email Cassius so that this Welcome Thread can contain basic information about your background and interest in Epicurus. In that email, please tell us what… -
Cassius
PostJuly 16, 2026 at 4:56 PM […]
And interestingly, no - we can't even agree to that.. The "experts" themselves are all over the board as to what pleasures really fall within katastematic and kinetic in the first place. I have been going through the Kelly Arenson book today and she -… -
Cassius
PostJuly 16, 2026 at 4:30 PM There are all sorts of things that are reasonable Dave, but prolonged advocacy that Epicurus held that anything other than the word Pleasure is the supreme good is the target of this policy for the reasons stated in the article.
If the policy is unclear… -
DaveT
PostJuly 16, 2026 at 4:01 PM I have trouble understanding that explanation of policy. It seems overly rigid.Certainly a person can feel katastematic pleasure over longer periods of time than physical pleasure. Can we agree to that? No one can actually feel physical pleasure over a… -
Cassius
ThreadJuly 16, 2026 at 3:07 PM -
Cassius
Blog ArticleJuly 16, 2026 at 2:06 PM The Current Establishment View - Which It Is the Editorial Policy Of EpicureanFriends.com to Reject
With only a few notable exceptions, practically every modern account of Epicurean ethics repeats the same claim: Epicurus divided pleasure into two… -
Kalosyni
July 16, 2026 at 9:10 AM Posted the thread What would Epicurus have said about Homer's Odyssey?.ThreadWhat would Epicurus have said about Homer's Odyssey? It looks like there isn't evidence to definitively state that it was popularly taught in ancient Greece during the time of Epicurus...however it is highly likely that it was.
Here we are in 2026 and… -
Kalosyni
July 16, 2026 at 9:00 AM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.PostPythocles read physical copies, and constantly had them in his hands...
From the start of the Letter to Pythocles:
[84] CLEON brought me a letter from you in which you continue to express a kindly feeling towards me, which is a just return for my interest… -
Cassius
July 15, 2026 at 6:32 PM Replied to the thread World's Worst Epicurus Videos.Postthe Stoic Epicurus - not a word about pleasure except to dismiss it as "mere pleasure"
youtube.com/watch?v=ReA0P8yisZ4 -
Cassius
PostJuly 15, 2026 at 4:37 PM The original thread included the following paragraph on which I want to make a special comment:
I find some posts here have overly emphasized pleasure. Yes, pleasure, pleasure, I love pleasure. In my younger years I was very much a hedonist. But, some… -
Cassius
ThreadJuly 15, 2026 at 3:31 PM ADMIN NOTE: The original version of this thread, along with the original first post, has been deleted. The following is a reconstruction from the main part of the posts that were present as of 7/15/26. If anyone's prior post here needs correcting, please… -
Cassius
July 14, 2026 at 2:56 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.PostMax - The extension of the katastematic priority argument to the gods tells me that it's time to call an end to this debate.
Emily Austin was correct in "Living For Pleasure" both when she named her book and when she refused to wade into the… -
Max DuBoff
July 14, 2026 at 1:47 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.PostThanks, Don , the above is fantastic. I've not really thought about that Metrodorus fragment, that's great--and it's very similar to Plutarch, Non Posse 1089d, which I have thought about much more. I've often been a bit unsure how to understand this… -
Max DuBoff
July 14, 2026 at 1:32 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
Yes, I strongly agree with PD 1 and 2. How would that support your claim, though? What makes the gods blessed is that they're not troubled--i.e., they have katastematic pleasure. And the reason to be extra certain about the Epicurean view of death is… -
Cassius
July 14, 2026 at 10:38 AM Replied to the thread Episode 342 - EATAQ24 - Were Our Minds Designed To Be Good At Pursuing Knowledge?.PostEpisode 342 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available. This week our episode is entitled: "Were Our Minds Designed To Be Good At Pursuing Knowledge?"
[media]https://www.spreaker.com/episode/72968374/media -
Don
July 13, 2026 at 11:21 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
Ah, this might be a good way to get at why or how we might have a different perspective on this. My understanding of our control over our own ataraxia stems from my view of tranquility/ataraxia being (possibly) less expansive than you.
I maintain that… -
Patrikios
July 13, 2026 at 6:21 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.Post[…]
Pacatus ,
It appears from your posts that you may not see a modern practical application for the deep study & grasping of the ‘blessedness of the gods’. Therefore you don’t see the need or how to apply the concept in your life. I firmly agree… -
Patrikios
July 13, 2026 at 4:30 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Luzveraz.Post[…]
Luzveraz ,
Welcome! And thanks for sharing some of your personal journey to joining the Epicurean Friends community.
Hopefully you can find additional insight into how to apply the Epicurean principles while still actively working, dealing with… -
Kalosyni
July 13, 2026 at 2:54 PM Replied to the thread Diogenes Laertius on Epicurean Ethics.PostAnd from Diogenes Laertius Book 10, on Epicureans (these are section excerpts appearing before, between, and after the Letters:
[…]
Source:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/57342/57…-h.htm#Page_424 -
Kalosyni
July 13, 2026 at 2:20 PM Replied to the thread Diogenes Laertius on Epicurean Ethics.PostDiogene Laertius talks about Epicureans (as a comparison to the Cyrenaics) in this section in Book 2 of Diogenes Laertius, online:
[…]
Source:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/57342/57…2-h.htm#Page_81 -
Cassius
July 13, 2026 at 12:59 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
Since I am among the leaders in typos I get used to recognizing them. Probably this was to be "So it's NOT pleasures vs ataraxia....?
[…]
Yes, the "only some pleasures (katestmetic ones) determine whether a life is blessed" is where we will continue to… -
Max DuBoff
July 13, 2026 at 11:59 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.PostDon what you said in that older thread seems generally right to me--thanks for mentioning it here. I especially agree with the point that tranquility is a pleasure, among other pleasures, but which is more worthy of pursuit, and other pleasures are… -
Max DuBoff
July 13, 2026 at 11:56 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
This generally seems right, but what it misses is that the absence of pain is a pleasure according to Epicurus. So it's pleasure vs. ataraxia for Epicurus; it's a question of how ataraxia fits into the landscape of pleasures. We need to ask and answer… -
Cassius
July 13, 2026 at 7:30 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Luzveraz.PostHere is a slightly edited note from Luzveraz telling us this:
Dear Cassius,
I am grateful to the founder and moderators of this website for promoting Epicureanism.
I used to be a PhD candidate in China majoring in theoretical quantum information science.
… -
DaveT
July 12, 2026 at 10:24 AM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.Post[…]
Speaking of the Carolingian period, I recently learned how the Muslim scholars had translated a great deal of Greek writings into Latin (many who lived in Islamic Spain). I wonder why, other than that they abhorred Epicurean denial of life after… -
DaveT
July 12, 2026 at 10:12 AM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.PostJoshua Thanks for the research above. So how do you think the Romans who were not literate in Greek learned Epicureanism in the Gardens in Italy? Historically I understand that the southern portions of the Italian peninsula and perhaps Sicily had… -
Don
July 12, 2026 at 8:37 AM Replied to the thread Experiental Avoidance of Pain / Aversion to Pain.PostBy Zeus! Gedney's going after Robertson's assertion that the Epicureans advocated "experiential avoidance" and does a good job from my perspective. The fact that he doesn't mention pleasure seems irrelevant in this context.
When an Epicurean is going… -
Kalosyni
July 12, 2026 at 8:35 AM Replied to the thread Food and Medicine in the Time of the Epicureans in Ancient Greece and Rome.PostHere is a good video on "The Food of Ancient Greece" and which gives historical info:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=psQheZRSmw0 -
Cassius
July 12, 2026 at 8:05 AM Replied to the thread Experiental Avoidance of Pain / Aversion to Pain.Post[…]
Am I reading this below correctly? Donald Robertson asserts directly to Jack Gedney that the supreme goal of Epicureanism is freedom from physical and mental pain and Jack does not respond by disagreeing with him and correcting him to say that the… -
Don
July 12, 2026 at 7:31 AM Replied to the thread Experiental Avoidance of Pain / Aversion to Pain.PostJack Gedney has struck a blow for Epicurus in two comments to that Robertson article! Huzzah! -
Cassius
July 11, 2026 at 4:15 PM Posted the thread Welcome Luzveraz.ThreadWelcome Luzveraz
There is one last step to complete your registration: All new registrants must email Cassius so that this Welcome Thread can contain basic information about your background and interest in Epicurus. In that email, please tell us what… -
Joshua
July 11, 2026 at 4:04 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.Post[…]
DaveT , we do have a partial record of the transmission of Epicureanism from Greece (and Greek) to Rome (and Latin), and much of it comes down to us from Cicero himself. Cicero wanted to cultivate a high Latin literature, and he wished also to…
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