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Max DuBoff
July 3, 2026 at 8:31 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
Oops, I forgot to mention: I designate "resistance"/"resist" to translate antiparatattesthai. It's not a literal translation (it's impossible to capture the full context in one word), but it does preserve the military context. (I owe this suggestion… -
Max DuBoff
July 3, 2026 at 8:27 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
I've now reread the thread, and I'm going to respond to a number of posts, but I think it'd be more helpful to write a few paragraphs than respond to individual points. If there's an individual point from upthread which you think is important for the… -
Max DuBoff
July 3, 2026 at 7:50 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
Thanks for this idea. Although I largely agree with Cassius just below, it's good that you raised this, because one of the biggest developments in 20th-century scholarship on Epicurus was less attention paid to PD 9. I don't mean to necessarily say… -
Max DuBoff
July 3, 2026 at 7:33 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
Thanks for this point, Don. Antiparatattesthai is markedly military language, evoking a battle line and the presence of an enemy. It derives from paratattein, which refers to arranging battle lines. Antiparatattesthai is perhaps best translated as… -
Elli
PostJuly 3, 2026 at 4:43 AM […]
I have read this quote in a post of a friend, who claimed that said by Epicurus, but this is fake!
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Elli
PostJuly 3, 2026 at 4:26 AM Plutarch was not a neutral observer. He was a priest of the Delphic priesthood, an ideological guardian of the Platonic and religious establishment. When he could not refute Epicurus philosophically, he resorted to ad hominem attacks, moralistic slander,… -
Cassius
PostJuly 3, 2026 at 3:42 AM Thank you for that post Elli!
I am sure someone will ask about this:
[…]
Is this an actual quote for which there is a citation, or is this exhortation a paraphrase? -
Elli
PostJuly 3, 2026 at 3:24 AM Epicurus’ Political Revolution Without Bloodshed
In On the Education of Children, Plutarch begins with a series of “moral” recommendations that Epicurus would immediately classify as empty beliefs. These are external social norms that have nothing to… -
Cassius
PostJuly 2, 2026 at 5:09 PM Thank you Matt. We have had a very good team of people rotate through over the years, and I am convinced that the material there is some of the best we produce. I've now gotten most all of them converted over into text transcripts which are all… -
Matteng
PostJuly 2, 2026 at 5:03 PM […] Last year, I actually started right from the beginning.
That went on for several months.
But the great thing about it is that you stay more in the context and don't have to wait a week—it's basically "binge-listening"
It hammers the points home
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Cassius
July 2, 2026 at 4:47 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
I always "like" it when you call our attention to PD09 on this topic. In this case I have a comment in regard to "All pleasure is pleasure, full stop." That very simple sentence stands at the top of a mountain of specific questions. Yes, I agree,… -
Cassius
PostJuly 2, 2026 at 4:37 PM I am tagging Patrikios here because I feel sure he will be interested in Elli's post 10 directly above. -
Godfrey
July 2, 2026 at 4:15 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.PostI feel the need at this point to add in my reading of some of the PDs, which when carefully considered (at least to me), delve into further parsing pleasure as intensity, duration and location. All pleasure is pleasure, full stop. The way to… -
Elli
PostJuly 2, 2026 at 4:02 PM Epicurus classifies sex as a desire “natural but not necessary.” He does this for a very precise reason: sex activates two different neurochemical systems in the human organism. One of them is stabilizing; the other is destabilizing.
The stabilizing part… -
Don
July 2, 2026 at 2:30 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
Slight quibble: he didn't write that his mental pleasures outweighed the physical pains, but he did write that he could contend with his pains with the mental pleasure of his memories: ἀντιπαρετάττετο "metaphorical, hold one's ground… -
DaveT
PostJuly 2, 2026 at 2:13 PM […]
Raphael Raul Yes, as Cassius said, there are a lot of issues worth discussing in your original post. Not the least one being that Epicurus seemed to discourage creating children within the marriage contract except if you were one of the rare… -
Elli
PostJuly 2, 2026 at 1:40 PM Ηello to all epicurean friends,
Dear Raphael, sorry but your whole text is a measurement of turmoil, not pleasure. You count taxes, cost of living, politics, technology, decline, demographics, robots, migration, feminism, MGTOW, Schopenhauer, Augustus,… -
Pacatus
July 2, 2026 at 1:11 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
Maybe “tranquillity” (which seems to be the dominant translation of ἀταραξία) is a translation subject to too much distortion, often taken as an unfeeling state. I think that Don and I have both used “equanimity” – but that seems to come up… -
Cassius
July 2, 2026 at 10:56 AM Posted the thread Episode 341 - EATAQ23 - Not Yet Recorded.ThreadWelcome to Episode 341 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the… -
Cassius
July 2, 2026 at 9:47 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
I have the same reaction, Wbernys, and I would be alert to the direction that some writers seem to take that tranquility does not only not "feel great" -- but that tranquility is not a "feeling" at all. That's how "they" (not referring here to Max)… -
Cassius
PostJuly 2, 2026 at 9:38 AM […]
Raphael Raul what do you think of that formulation? What kind of philosophical perspective can we bring to the question of how many zeroes are required to be confident that the pleasure would outweigh the pain? -
Cassius
July 2, 2026 at 9:18 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
As to what plesaures actually determine a blessed life, I think I recall Gosling & Taylor examining that at length in "The Greeks On Pleasure" in their chapter on the katastematic/kinetic issue, and concluding that there is nothing mysterious at all… -
wbernys
July 2, 2026 at 9:13 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
I would slightly disagree, caviar and a beautiful view do feel great in the same way as tranquility, afterall pleasure reach it's limit in removing pain, it's just that tranquility (like all mental feelings) last a lot longer and are more intense… -
Noah Calderon
PostJuly 2, 2026 at 9:11 AM Marriage and children don't seem to have been out of the question for Epicureans, but Epicurus and his followers definitely seemed to place more emphasis on friendship more generally than on pair-bonding, romance, and reproduction. This makes sense… -
Cassius
July 2, 2026 at 9:09 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
You certainly can! No time limits are ticking, and your patience and attention to detail is appreciated! I presume I can speak for most everyone that we appreciate your being here and engaging. -
Max DuBoff
July 2, 2026 at 9:00 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post -
Max DuBoff
July 2, 2026 at 8:59 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.PostOhhhh, yes, I wasn't denying that the absence of pain (i.e., tranquility and the asence of bodily pain) is pleasure. The question is, in large part, what "pleasure" means. What it doesn't mean (in my view) is that tranquility feels great in the way that… -
Cassius
July 2, 2026 at 8:04 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
I never said it was not foundational or fundamental and I agree with you that it is. But foundational and fundamental are very different from "the goal." Those who push something other than pleasure as "the goal" know this very well. Food is… -
Don
July 2, 2026 at 7:21 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
I think it's a jump to always immediately go from discussion of the importance of tranquility/ataraxia to seeing this as an endorsement of asceticism. I don't necessarily see people who write "tranquility is the ultimate pleasure" or "tranquility is… -
Cassius
PostJuly 2, 2026 at 6:23 AM Basic analysis of this issue is also going to be related to, or a subset of, the entire question of friendship relationships, and there we have some clear points:
1 - We pursue friendship for pleasure, even though over time the pleasure of our friends… -
Cassius
July 2, 2026 at 5:01 AM Replied to the thread Episode 340 - EATAQ22 - The Fatal Flaw in Socratic Skepticism.Post -
Godfrey
July 2, 2026 at 1:26 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
PD20 . The flesh assumes that the limits of joy are infinite, and that infinite joy can be produced only through infinite time.... (Saint-Andre translation)
Max DuBoff , is this the extent of the beginning of PD20 that you're referring to? I'm… -
wbernys
July 1, 2026 at 10:08 PM Replied to the thread Lesser known quotes by Epicurus..Post[…]
Yeah I know. I just wanted a collection of some of the best on the site so more could see them especially, i did something on reddit as well. Plus i like having more stuff on the site. -
wbernys
July 1, 2026 at 9:56 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.PostHello Max DuBoff , sorry for not saying hi earlier but happy to have you here! Your articles look great, by the way, just read them, and match my own thoughts. Do you know (or are allowed to share) if Emily Austin has any new works on Epicurus coming… -
Cassius
PostJuly 1, 2026 at 9:28 PM I have pinned this thread to the top of the "Relationships" forum. There are a huge number of issues that can be picked out of Raphael's post and discussed. If this thread gets long and goes off in different directions we can break it into sub-threads… -
Don
July 1, 2026 at 8:32 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
As I remember, she insisted that "pleasure" be in the title. -
Don
July 1, 2026 at 8:22 PM Replied to the thread Lesser known quotes by Epicurus..Post -
Cassius
July 1, 2026 at 7:43 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.PostThere are many ways at getting at some of these issues, some more mundane than others. Here's a more real-world question:
Did Emily Austin make a mistake in entitling her book "Living For Pleasure?" Should she have titled it "Living For… -
Don
July 1, 2026 at 7:38 PM Replied to the thread Quotes of Metrodorus, Polyaenus, and Hermarchus..Post[…]
I think I've quoted it elsewhere. I didn't say it was readily helpful
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Cassius
July 1, 2026 at 7:30 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
If taken literally, this would be a statement that "absence of pain" is a totally separate thing from "any kind or quantity of pleasure" -- in other words - absence of pain is not pleasure at all. Is that your view?
It would probably also be helpful… -
wbernys
July 1, 2026 at 7:16 PM Replied to the thread Quotes of Metrodorus, Polyaenus, and Hermarchus..PostOkay i made separate threads for each founder. Please use them for any further discussion or listing of any other quotes. Hope you all enjoy! -
wbernys
July 1, 2026 at 7:15 PM Posted the thread Quotes of Metrodorus..ThreadPlease use this thread for any quotes of Metrodorus you may find. Please exclude those also mentioned in the Vatican Sayings that he likely said.
Do not seek for things to happen as you wish, rather wish for things to happen as they happen - Metrodorus.… -
wbernys
July 1, 2026 at 7:00 PM Posted the thread Lesser known quotes by Epicurus..ThreadPlease use this thread for any lesser known quotes (Outside his extant letters, Principal Doctrines , Vatican Sayings) for any quotes of Epicurus you may find.
Please only do direct quotations to ensure accuracy. Some "quotes" like the famous "Worthless… -
Max DuBoff
July 1, 2026 at 6:33 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.PostVery interesting points, more later. In the meantime, Don, yes, I meant ataraxia by tranquility, makarios for blessed, and eudaimonia for happiness (though I agree well-being is a solid term).
And yep, I like Austin's book a lot! (Plus I've benefited… -
wbernys
July 1, 2026 at 6:32 PM Posted the thread Quotes by Hermarchus.ThreadSadly little survives of Hermarchus. Please use this thread only for any more qoutes you find. To begin I will start with the incredibly detailed and long qoutation of Hermarchus on how laws against murder and manslaughter, along with why animals are… -
wbernys
July 1, 2026 at 6:25 PM Posted the thread Quotes by Polyaenus of Lampsacus..ThreadCollection of qoutes I found, hope others find more! Please use this thread only for more qoutes.
The more you help a friend, the more you help yourself, as their goodwill returns to us. - Polyaenus. Maximus the Confessor, PG 91, section 283 end, Catholic… -
wbernys
July 1, 2026 at 6:23 PM Replied to the thread Quotes of Metrodorus, Polyaenus, and Hermarchus..PostSure. I'll do that, I'm just gonna keep this up as well. -
Cassius
July 1, 2026 at 6:22 PM Replied to the thread Quotes of Metrodorus, Polyaenus, and Hermarchus..PostWilliam do you mind breaking apart the quotes and putting a separate thread under each of the names? That will make them easier to find in the future -- if you have enough to make that worthwhile -
wbernys
July 1, 2026 at 6:21 PM Replied to the thread Quotes of Metrodorus, Polyaenus, and Hermarchus..PostDon , could you give a few excerpts in English? it's in German I think and I wouldn't want others to go through the hassle of translation. -
Cassius
July 1, 2026 at 6:09 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.Post[…]
This is a key observation and very well stated.
Of course, the advocates of "tranquility/ataraxia" as the ultimate goal, rather than happiness based on pleasure as Diogenes of Oinoanda shouted about and Torquatus explains at length, have plenty of…
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