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Cassius
July 12, 2026 at 8:05 AM Replied to the thread Experiental Avoidance of Pain / Aversion to Pain.Post[…]
Am I reading this below correctly? Donald Robertson asserts directly to Jack Gedney that the supreme goal of Epicureanism is freedom from physical and mental pain and Jack does not respond by disagreeing with him and correcting him to say that the… -
Don
July 12, 2026 at 7:31 AM Replied to the thread Experiental Avoidance of Pain / Aversion to Pain.PostJack Gedney has struck a blow for Epicurus in two comments to that Robertson article! Huzzah! -
Raphael Raul
July 11, 2026 at 10:34 PM Replied to a comment by Julia on the image Our Journey from Atoms...to consciousness..Reply (Image/Video)Julia
Thank you, Julia, for your comment about my illustration "From Atoms to Consciouness".
Consciouness is an emergent property that interests me, as everything we experience in the world is filtered through it.
After you posted your comment, I… -
Cassius
July 11, 2026 at 4:15 PM Posted the thread Welcome Luzveraz.ThreadWelcome Luzveraz
There is one last step to complete your registration: All new registrants must email Cassius so that this Welcome Thread can contain basic information about your background and interest in Epicurus. In that email, please tell us what… -
Joshua
July 11, 2026 at 4:04 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.Post[…]
DaveT , we do have a partial record of the transmission of Epicureanism from Greece (and Greek) to Rome (and Latin), and much of it comes down to us from Cicero himself. Cicero wanted to cultivate a high Latin literature, and he wished also to… -
Joshua
July 11, 2026 at 3:21 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.PostRegarding the loss of texts:
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And regarding Epicurean texts specifically, we do have a very telling remark that dates from the 4th century AD. In this letter written by the emperor Julian the Apostate for the purpose of instructing his pagan priests, he… -
Bryan
July 11, 2026 at 3:13 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.PostWe do have two complete manuscripts, Codex Oblongus and Codex Quadratus, as well as the partial Gottorpienses -- all Carolingian and from the 800's.
Being able to read and write in Greek was a standard part of the education for the whole class of wealthy… -
Cassius
July 11, 2026 at 2:06 PM Posted the thread Episode 342 - EATAQ24 - Not Yet Recorded.ThreadWelcome to Episode 342 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the… -
DaveT
July 11, 2026 at 1:46 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.Post[…]
Astonishing that the single copy of Lucretius was found. Another thing this made me think about was that probably the number of illiterates who learned by someone reading the texts or booklets decreased when Epicureanism moved to the Latin language of… -
Bryan
July 10, 2026 at 8:48 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostAlong the same lines, I'll throw in some quotes from Epicurean sources:
"And you, sir, should consider it something most blessed (μακαριώτατον τι) to have rightly grasped what is best of all among what exists that we are able to conceive!"
The Oxyrhynchus… -
Don
July 10, 2026 at 6:05 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.Post[…]
I've heard the estimates are that we only have about 1-5% of ALL texts from the ancient world. (One source example) -
Don
July 10, 2026 at 5:54 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostI thought it might be instructive to see how "blessed" aka makarios is used in other contexts in ancient Greek contexts unrelated to the Epicurean description of the gods.
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DaveT
July 10, 2026 at 5:25 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.PostKalosyni Thank you for the history of papyrus and writing tools etc. Very interesting. Although the topic of the literate and illiterate probably can't be resolved, I'm curious on your source materials on Epicurus' financial holdings and his income… -
Patrikios
July 10, 2026 at 4:49 PM Replied to the thread New Advancement on Reading Herculaneum Scrolls.PostHere’s the news on the scrolls from the Smithsonian Institution.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/sci…tion-180989036/ -
Pacatus
July 10, 2026 at 4:04 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostKalosyni
I agree with you about exegesis itself. Nor do I disagree with your exegesis. Nor am I attempting any eisegesis on the texts.
I am simply saying that I personally cannot relate to the concept of blessedness (nor any kind of god-likeness) in my… -
TauPhi
July 10, 2026 at 3:20 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostPacatus . Your post #12 is something quite peculiar. It almost never happens that someone writes so many sentences and every single one of them makes me say: 'Yes, exactly.'. I read the whole thing and started to laugh out loud at the end because I… -
Kalosyni
July 10, 2026 at 2:36 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostFrom post 1 above:
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I think that it is very important when approaching the study of Epicurus, the Letter to Menoeceus, and the word "blessedness" as it relates to Epicurean philosophy, to do so with the intention of "exegesis" (a critical interpretation… -
Don
July 10, 2026 at 2:11 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.Post[…]
Good point. While there may be superficial similarities to these notions, those fall apart upon any closer examination. There are completely different underpinnings and frameworks.
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Exactly! Well put.
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I've never heard it put quite that way before.… -
Cassius
July 10, 2026 at 2:06 PM Replied to the thread Experiental Avoidance of Pain / Aversion to Pain.PostMatt - In case you have not seen it, I have just updated my long-standing summary on the issue behind what Robertson is saying, which I believe needs to be taken in context of Plato's Philebus . This contains my most complete list of citations on the… -
Cassius
July 10, 2026 at 1:38 PM Replied to the thread Experiental Avoidance of Pain / Aversion to Pain.Post[…]
Unfortunately, it's equally if not more probable than he's got a sheet-full of citations from modern writers supporting him on that. Wrong, but they are legion. -
Pacatus
July 10, 2026 at 12:45 PM Replied to the thread Experiental Avoidance of Pain / Aversion to Pain.Post[…]
Wow! I've always had respect for Robertson as one of the better translators of Stoicism for the modern world. But that is so egregiously wrong. He clearly did not do his due diligence on that.
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Pacatus
July 10, 2026 at 12:40 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.Post[…]
Yes, absolutely. -
Cassius
July 10, 2026 at 12:31 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.Post[…]
Exactly - what meaning can "blessed -" possibly carry to a normal ear today other than "blessed by the gods" which Epicurus explicitly rejected. It's a word that appears and has to be incorporated in reviewing texts, but I see no reason to focus on it… -
Cassius
July 10, 2026 at 12:23 PM Replied to the thread Experiental Avoidance of Pain / Aversion to Pain.PostI may have more to say later but this is why you don't listen to stoics - or anyone who advoccates relief from pain rather than pleasure - as what Epicurus taught as the Supreme Good.
The whole premise of the article is built on a false conception that… -
Pacatus
July 10, 2026 at 12:17 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostKalosyni Thanks for that considered response.
I don’t fear death – or gods. Epicurean philosophy certainly has been a support for that. But I don’t believe in gods (supernatural or natural) – so, for me, whatever “godlike” might mean is a… -
Matteng
July 10, 2026 at 12:02 PM Posted the thread Experiental Avoidance of Pain / Aversion to Pain.ThreadHi together,
in a substack article Donald Robertson argues for the Stoic views of Emotion.
Thereby there are some attacks and I think strawmens from Seneca about Epicurus view.
What do you think ? There is the teaching against the Fear of Pain, and to… -
Cassius
July 10, 2026 at 11:54 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.PostThis has been a very long thread but I think we got to this point without including the argument that meets Max's concern about why Epicurus was concerned about "perfect" or the limit of pleasure: He needed a response to the argument that Plato had made… -
Kalosyni
July 10, 2026 at 11:46 AM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.Post[…]
Pacatus
Here is why I think is important to contemplate a difference between "well-being" (of living a life well) and "blessedness" (of the gods) -- as according to the Letter to Menoeceus and Epicurean philosophy. And also when doing so, it is… -
Cassius
July 10, 2026 at 9:33 AM Replied to the thread Episode 341 - EATAQ23 - Is It True That No One Dies For A Lie?.PostEpisode 341 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available. This week our episode is entitled: "Is It True That No One Dies For A Lie?
[media]https://www.spreaker.com/episode/72914175/media -
Cassius
July 10, 2026 at 4:04 AM Replied to the thread Instances of the Sage breaking the law? From Plutarch.Post[…]
I agree that this is an important consideration. It would have been obvious to Plutarch and Epicurus that the law sometimes forbids in ways that are unjust, and Epicurus' views of justice clearly show that circumstances can change and agreements can… -
Don
July 9, 2026 at 10:08 PM Replied to the thread Instances of the Sage breaking the law? From Plutarch.PostSee also
[ U340 ]
Hippolytus, "Philosophical Questions," (Refutation of all Heresies, I) 22.5 [p. 572.14 Diels.]: He {Epicurus} concluded that the souls of men are dissolved along with their bodies, just as also they were produced along with them; these,… -
wbernys
July 9, 2026 at 9:24 PM Posted the thread Instances of the Sage breaking the law? From Plutarch.ThreadWanted to establish this thread for more detailed discussion of this fragment.
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First of all, it is likely Plutarch is being typically unfair here, as i imagine right after this Epicurus may have mentioned examples like helping a friend, or acquiring… -
Cassius
July 9, 2026 at 5:13 PM Replied to the thread Athenian Epicurean Program on Thomas Jefferson And Epicurus.PostI've sent an email to Christos but it's late in Greece so I presume it will be some time before i hear a response. -
Cassius
July 9, 2026 at 4:42 PM Replied to the thread Athenian Epicurean Program on Thomas Jefferson And Epicurus.Post[…]
Sure let me see what I can do..... -
Patrikios
July 9, 2026 at 4:41 PM Replied to the thread Athenian Epicurean Program on Thomas Jefferson And Epicurus.Post[…]
Thanks, Cassius for alerting us. I’ve registered for the July 25th session.
Would you feel comfortable reaching out to either of the speakers to get a copy/url for the video of their June 27 session?
[…] -
Cassius
July 9, 2026 at 3:20 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.Post[…]
And that's why I see this as relevant to the other thread on how widespread literacy was in the ancient world, and why it grew so well in the Roman world in particular. When you are practical-minded and have limited time to pore over abstract texts,… -
Pacatus
July 9, 2026 at 2:49 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostI have become more and more a “one day at a time” kind of guy. And although I might draw from other sources where it seems helpful, it is mostly Epicurean philosophy that helps me with that. I think of myself as “mostly Epicurean” – it’s… -
Cassius
July 9, 2026 at 2:25 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.Post[…]
I 100% agree Pacatus, and while also not denigrating any sincere Epicurean's argument about this, I think it's very very dangerous to look at it that way. Human life can and should target conceptual ideals as a way to visualize the best life, as a way… -
Pacatus
July 9, 2026 at 2:10 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.Post[…]
This is exactly the kind of ideal (in the sense of ultimate goal or telos) I no longer entertain, let alone strive for – like Nirvana or Bodhi or “big Satori.” I just let that kind of thing go – relaxing from it, as it were.
Note: Speaking only for… -
Kalosyni
July 9, 2026 at 2:01 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.PostFurther thoughts:
We might wonder how the writings of one of the most influential philosophers in ancient Greece almost completely disappear? Epicurus wrote hundreds of books and letters that were once widely read throughout Greece and Rome. Yet today,… -
Kalosyni
July 9, 2026 at 1:42 PM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostThere is a difference between "well-being" and "blessedness"...
In ancient Greek philosophy, Eudaimonia (εὐδαιμονία) is the process of active human flourishing, while Makarios (μακάριος) is the secure state of absolute contentment.
We could characterize… -
Cassius
July 9, 2026 at 1:31 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Max Duboff.PostI just posted this in another thread, but since it is directly applicable to this discussion I'll duplicate it. Max, would you disagree with this summary? (As we all know these engines like to tell us what we want to hear, so let's presume this has been… -
Kalosyni
July 9, 2026 at 1:29 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.PostMore background on Epicurus and his school, and the wealth that allowed him to start and run the school:
Epicurus was relatively wealthy by the standards of ancient Athens, allowing him to afford the vast amounts of papyrus required to author his roughly… -
Cassius
July 9, 2026 at 1:27 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.Post[…]
Had to be frequent, and I would say likely had to repeat and focus on key points rather than deliver (for example) a Lucretius-length monologue. -
Kalosyni
July 9, 2026 at 1:26 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.PostLooking into historical aspects of writing at 300 BC...blank papyrus was a significant expense, generally costing a few days' wages for an unskilled laborer. However, the act of copying or writing made books exceptionally pricey, as all texts had to be… -
Don
July 9, 2026 at 1:21 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.Post[…]
The hetairai were more "free" than wives or other women, so I would think it was primarily they who attended. Women were more free in Roman settings than Greek. -
DaveT
July 9, 2026 at 12:57 PM Replied to the thread During the time of Epicurus, who could read well enough to study philosophy?.PostAs I thought about this question, I remembered that the only way of sharing written scrolls was to have someone manually copy it. Since this likely was an expensive proposition done by skilled scribes (No Jeff Bezos types) there were probably rather few… -
Pacatus
July 9, 2026 at 11:42 AM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostDon : Not intrepid.
We've exchanged this before, but I use both terms when translating (mostly for myself) εὐδαιμονία: i.e. "happy well-being." -
Don
July 9, 2026 at 11:34 AM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostFWIW From my Menoikeus commentary:
μακάριον
This word is often translated as "blessed, fortunate, wealthy, 'well-off.'" There appears to be no certain etymology of the root [makar] or the longer form [makarios/on]. It appears to possibly have something to… -
Cassius
July 9, 2026 at 11:23 AM Replied to the thread The Relationship of Happiness and Blessedness.PostHere's my view:
I would agree with the direction you are coming from Pacatus and "happiness" is the term I prefer to use for the reasonable human goal.
I'd also say it appears that just as today, Epicurus' time was filled with religious speculation and…
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