Posts by Raphael Raul

Thanks for the information you gathered, Kalosyni.
All those suggestions I try to follow. They are all important and work together organically.

I also printed out what you posted on "On Epicurean Text Study and Contemplation," which I will begin reading this weekend on a favorite sunny bench in a nearby leafy park... Spend Time in Nature: Getting fresh air and stepping outside have been shown by psychologists to increase happiness and lower stress.

Also, I would like to add that, as you know, Schopenhauer had a great influence on Sigmund Freud through the idea of "The Will," which, in turn, led to Freud's discovery of the unconscious forces beneath consciousness. So, in a way, Freud somewhat confirmed the existence of an unseen force that compels our actions, which psychotherapy tries to unravel from a patient. As you mentioned, Schopenhauer influenced Nietzsche, even though he departed from him by affirming life rather than denying it. And Schopenhauer had a great influence on a whole list of artists, including Richard Wagner and Thomas Mann.
...I will watch the videos tonight with my usual hot chocolate with Irish cream....have a good night.

The following is a reply to Eikadistes, who replies to Cassius:
Above is an illustration I painted in a "naive" style using pastel on canvas paper, depicting a quote that scholars, for the most part, agree is from Epicurus or a paraphrase. I think this quote captures the most fundamental endeavor of human existence: our hunt for nourishment, for survival. Everything else is second or third to this, even philosophy and art ("Even wisdom and culture must be referred to this.") All philosophy and art crumble into ash once there is nothing to eat, when hunger in the stomach begins to growl. This topic is largely overlooked in philosophy, as if it were unimportant or uninteresting. How gripping does this subject become once severe hunger or worse starvation rears its ugly head? In extreme cases, even supposedly civilized persons lost in the wild will eat each other once the skeleton of starvation arrives. Nothing else matters, but survival, and the stomach knows this instinctively without the need of science, philosophy, or art... No wonder that the craft of cooking is said to be the "Necessary Art" not only for Survival, but also for...Pleasure.
...."fames optimum condimentum"...(...Hunger is the best seasoning...)... Cicero.

Hello, Cassius, I came upon this thread you just posted. Schopenhauer is a philosopher who intrigues me with his main idea of the blind force of "The Will", a force that is outside of the phenomenal world of matter, a noumenal realm outside of our understanding. I actually brought him up in the Sunday meeting about six weeks ago. Yes, there are a few ideas in Schopenhauer that align with Epicureanism, although certainly not the one I mentioned above. I will view the video and leave a comment at some point...

...In the last few years, I have been exploring consciouness research to understand the phenomenon that makes our philosophical and artistic creations possible.

What do you think consciouness is?

Below is a link to an interesting discussion between eminent scientists on this most obvious, but most mysterious phenomenon of life…consciousness.

To view an interesting short segment, view from… 30:46 to 34:16

The evolution of the universe and that of life on Earth has brought consciousness to fruition in all life forms, especially in us Humans, who think and reflect on our place in the universe. Thus, consciousness, I believe, is the fragrant flower of the evolution of the universe and of life on earth. In the illustration below, I have attempted to show how we, as humans, have evolved to an awareness of our atomic origins through the rigors of science.

Video-Poem, below...
“Our Journey Through the Universe,”
Raphael-Raúl Sebaszco / 1980.

About 9 years ago, I made a video poem based on the text of my poem (below), set to original music by professional composer, Rich Fuchs.

It was selected by NASA for the Benu asteroid launch 9 years ago, with the work of other artists.

The poem has appeared in various publications and has been broadcast via satellite to 250 radio stations under a 1980 Arts and Science grant from National Public Radio.

It has been recited, accompanied by jazz bands and electronic music composers, at many poetry readings.

Since then, much in science has evolved. The Universe, when I wrote the poem, was estimated to be 15 billion years old in 1980. Between 1995 and the 2000s, with more powerful space-based measurements, scientists slowly revised the age of the Universe to 13.8 billion years.

Here is the poem recited in the video:

"Our Journey through the Universe”
___________________________________________

3. 8 billion years ago, say, physicists

that the four-and-a-half light-year-long mass

of concentrically turning,

hotly condensing

stripped electrons, protons & neutrons

in the universal emptiness

exploded in atomic hydrogen-helium fury

across the vast expanse of space....

We have been traveling ever since.

We have been 13—8 billion years on this trip.

Imagine a massive compressed gaseous atomic explosion

bursting in slow motion and infinitely propelling away

from the center of its release.

Every mass-energy particle,

Me, You, the earth, the moon, the planets, our sun, the galaxy

and the billions of galaxies moving

and mutating into other elemental forms, combinations,

and recombinations.

Atomic transformations into higher complex organizations

of hydrogen, helium, sodium & carbon.

...Trail by accident evolution?

Imagine elementary molecules gathering and forming, acids, sugars, proteins;

proteins, the building blocks of life,

creating cellular organisms where organic, regenerating,

and transmuting life first began.

Matter evolving intricately complex cellular communities,

Nature’s intelligence index is expanding.

After 13.8 billion years of trial and error evolution,

Here we are!

In every DNA staircase of a gene, the blueprint of life

finding out about itself, discovering the laws of physical truth, atomic weight, density, and its place in the elemental scheme.

13. 8 billion years ago, say physicists,

We have been traveling…ever since.

Raphael-Raúl Santiago Sebaszco / 1980

Hello Kalosyni, yes, there are those with terminal illness with months to live and those who are old and have a poor quality of life.
Now, for those with a terminal illness of six months or less, there was an agreement that was reached, this past December 17th, 2025, to have signed in 2026, here in New York City, "The Medical Aid in Dying Act".
But it is only for those who a medical doctor has certified that they have six months or less to live, due to a terminal illness, and also approved by a psychiatrist, that it is of their free will and that no one is coercing them. Once this is signed, New York State will be the 13th State to have "Medical Aid in Dying". Here is the link to the news and Hochul speaking, which I found very moving:

Hello Kalosyni, thanks for sharing the link to the 2010 interview with Ludwig Minelli.
I leave you a link to an article on the renowned botanist David Godall, who at 104 chose to end his life by medical suicide at the Basel clinic in Switzerland circa 2013.

Here is the link to the article and video of him speaking:

David Goodall: Scientist, 104, ends his life in Switzerland

The ecologist and botanist, who was not terminally ill, went to Switzerland to voluntarily end his life.

www.bbc.com

Thank you, Don, for the link to Flow.
...This is an experience I have often had in drawing and painting: when I start a piece, time passes to my astonishment afterwards. Also, my art students, after two and a half hours of learning and work, say "Already!" when I tell them to stop, and we will present what we have done through the session. Also, many of my art students have mentioned an increase in their ability to concentrate and focus after months of training the eye to see and the hand to render what is seen.

I found this quote below to be to the point.
But I have not experienced the phenomenon of not needing to eat, drink, or sleep.
...Mihaly Csikszentmihályi and others began researching flow after he became fascinated by artists who would essentially get lost in their work.^[8] Artists, especially painters, got so immersed in their work that they would disregard their need for food, water, and even sleep. The theory of flow emerged when Csikszentmihályi sought to understand the phenomenon experienced by these artists.

Thank you, Tau Phi, for your kind comments on my illustration of the Principle Doctrine #3.
The fact that this is your favorite is inspiring!...Yes, I will create more illustrations.

Relating to PD03

The Experience of living in the Complete Absence of Pain is the Highest Point or Limit...of Pleasure..

....For me, in my experience, when there is Aponia, Ataraxia, and Contemplative activity (of body, mind & spirit), whether philosophical or artistic, a person achieves a state of pleasure unknown to most humans, belabored by ceaseless work and the constant anxiety to meet the expectations of this world. This pleasure is tantamount to the joy that the Gods relish, those Gods in bliss that Epicurus, I believe, metaphorically wrote of. ...Principal Doctrine 3 states: "The limit of pleasure is the removal of all that pains. Wherever this state is present, there is neither bodily pain nor mental distress, and one is at the fullness of pleasure." ...I should also mention, Prudence, "practical wisdom", Phrónésis, the greatest good, which, when applied to the body, leads to health, Aponia. When applied to the mind, Ataraxia, which allows our spirit, that which animates the body and the mind, like electricity powers a car, to enjoy the pleasure of living. In my pastel illustration above, I have tried to convey Epicurus in this state of contemplative pleasure, writing his thoughts in his beautiful garden that his followers also enjoyed. As you can see, Epicurus writes with a slight smile, as Kalosyni once suggested he should have in an image she created....Yes, for me, a smile of satisfaction, of enjoyment, of Pleasure.
..So, for me, Prudence, Aponia, Ataraxia, and Contemplative Activity have been a guide to a pleasant and creative life.
...Enjoy!

Good evening, Cassius. I hope you had a good dinner.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply to my post.
I am clarifying this statement you wrote in your post.

"But the real heart of the question is the role of Pleasure vs reason as the guide. I gather you're concerned that it is a problem to hold reason to be a "tool" for happiness, rather than a guide toward happiness."

I just wanted to clarify that
...I hold that the goal of life is Pleasure, but the guide of life is "Reason."
I hold that reason is the tool that guides the Pleasure that we are experiencing, not the other way around.

For example, pleasures come, while eating or drinking, let's say, and while one eats and drinks, one may desire to eat and drink past a reasonable limit. Thus, a reasonable person employs "reason" to decide, "No, I will stop eating and drinking now, because if I continue, I will get drunk and have indigestion later.
So yes, we feel Pleasure, and those pleasures can be good or bad if we do not use reason to decide how far or how much Pleasure we should have.

However, the main argument concerns the almost total subject view that all members held at last Sunday's discussion. The idea that all is subjective and that there is no objectivity possible in making societal valuations.

I am looking forward to tomorrow's Sunday Epicurean discussion.
It is one of the highlights of my Sunday!!!
As well as playing chess with Tau Phi after the discussion.

Good night...

Again, it was a fascinating and even passionate discussion last Sunday on the topic of "Comparing The Pleasure of A Great Physicist Making A Discovery To the Pleasure of a Lion Eating an Antelope or Lamb." Some people have stated in the threads and the discussion that this topic has already been argued and resolved. This debate is far from being resolved, especially the argument that I am presenting here, which will never be definitively determined and will always be debated in different times and epochs, as it has been throughout history, since the ancient Greeks in the Agora of Athens. My final thoughts on this topic will likely be highly controversial for some and even spark a firestorm of debate, but debate is a good thing.

For me, the goal of life is Pleasure, but the guide of life is "Reason." Prudence, as Epicurus stated, is even more important than philosophy." Why is that? It is because prudence is the use of Reason to sort out what is best for one. One can live well without having read any philosophy if they have Prudence. If they are Reasonable people, they can sort out among the many choices what is beneficial for their life. I have personally met illiterate country folk with "common sense" as they call it, who have used Prudence (reason) to navigate skillfully through life, and have known highly educated individuals who have made continuous bad choices. It seems that higher education and academic philosophy did not help them; maybe Prudence would have.

My point here is that with reason we make personal choices, but as a society, "we use reason collectively to decide what is more valuable than other things." Therefore, we make collective "valuations" that may deem one activity "higher" in nature than another, or using another term, "worthier of our time and energy", and seek as a society to promote those worthier activities that we collectively decide are more beneficial to it, such as the study of history, science, philosophy, and the arts over playing pinball, throwing darts in pubs, or watching sitcoms all night. Yes, some individuals have no interest or receive Pleasure from reading history, studying science and philosophy, or composing music and creating paintings. Their pleasures are of the ones mentioned above, and I respect their interests and their pleasures. I also enjoy, in my youth, at times, playing pinball, darts in bars, and watching a sitcom or two. I am dating myself here, but I still enjoy viewing, once in a while, the 1950s sitcom "The HoneyMooners", for relaxation and laughter. ...Laughter is good; it oxygenates the brain.

As understood, in Epicurean philosophy, there are no objectively higher activities judged collectively as superior, independent of individual experience. Epicurus held that all value—including the value of activities—is grounded in the individual's own feelings of pleasure and pain, not in an external or collective hierarchy. So, this is my criticism of what we know of Epicurean philosophy, as scholars estimate that less than 1% of Epicurus' total written works have survived. And it is possible that on the other 99% of the writings that we do not have, he may have refined this view.

However, I am not going to fall into the pit of subjectivism and relativism that leads to sophistry by saying that playing pinball, darts in bars, and watching sitcoms all night, though pleasurable, are all equally valuable as reading history, studying science and philosophy, or appreciating art, such as painting, music, and poetry, and all the other intellectual and artistic activities. This subjective vs objective argument is an old debate dating back around 2,300 years to ancient Greece between Socrates and the Sophists. Plato's dialogue that best captures the problem of subjectivism versus objective truths is the "Republic", especially in Books V–VII, where Socrates contrasts the world of changing opinions and appearances (doxa/subjectivism) with the world of immutable, objective knowledge (episteme) accessed through reason.

Ironically, Epicurus develops a whole philosophical system using proto-scientific ideas that are objectively outside of the larger society's views or understanding. Yet, Epicureans hold that objective valuations cannot be made is a contradiction. Epicurus developed theories of atoms and void, first proposed by Democritus, which were not observable with instruments in his time. These are attempts at objective assertions, scientific assertions, of the world. However, Epicureans maintain that all is subjective, as I was made aware of during our discussion, and objective valuations cannot be made. What Epicureans hold is in contradiction to what Epicurus actually did, which was to attempt to arrive at ideas that he developed through objective reasoning.

Finally, as Socrates warned, subjectivism can lead to social confusion and chaos. In the West, we are experiencing the consequences of overemphasizing subjectivism and relativism, due to many factors, which have led to confusion and doubt about what a man and a woman are, and that one can become the other by just "identifying" with it (subjectivism), and ignoring what science knows about DNA. Our Western heritage and its values have been slowly evaporating. Values that originated in ancient Greece, such as the use of reason and the development of a non-supernatural view of the world and universe, led to philosophy and science. Suppose we, as a society, do not return to evaluating and recognizing the worth of Western Civilization's Values, especially that of reason and science; in that case, we will face its ultimate disappearance as other, more passionate, radical, belief-based societies demographically and politically overtake it, as is presently happening in Europe today, with dire consequences for it.

Finally, for me, to restate...the goal of life is Pleasure, but the guide of life is "Reason." Prudence, as Epicurus stated, is even more important than philosophy." For it gives us the ability to guide us to good pleasures. However, the present Epicurean understanding in my mind is limited due to the paucity of Epicurus' own writings, which are considered only 1% of what he wrote. And there seems to be a contradiction between what he attempted to do "objectively" and thus what Epicureans believe, as only "Subjectivity" is possible. Therefore, in my humble opinion, Epicureanism, as understood by Epicureans in our discussion last Sunday, is lacking in evaluating the truly worthy values and activities, such as Albert Einstein's development of the Theory of Relativity, Beethoven's symphonies, and Leonardo Da Vinci's paintings, from what appear to me to be mere distractions, such as darts in bars, pinball, and binging on sitcoms all day.

Cassius, yes, it was a fascinating, passionate discussion last Sunday on Comparing The Pleasure of A Great Physicist Making A Discovery To the Pleasure of a Lion Eating an Antelope. ...Today I have been preparing for my two art workshops, which are filled to the brim with students. Starting Friday, after completing some errands & organizing my studio, I hope to have some time to write down some thoughts on the discussion and post them here. I will see you Sunday at 12:30 pm for the Epicurean Friends Zoom meeting.

Comparing The Pleasure of A Great Physicist Making A Discovery To The Pleasure of A Lion Eating An Antelope.

I would like to start by addressing Tau Phi's assertion that "The pleasure of one cannot be evaluated as "greater" than the pleasure of another." I agree with this claim from a subjective perspective, because the lion is sustaining itself and having the pleasure of his bloody, fleshy meal, and is unaware of the profound joy that Albert Einstein experiences when discovering new scientific truths. Similarly, we, as humans, are unable to fathom the extraordinary pleasures that the gods, as Epicurus states, experience in their blissful existence.

From a third-party perspective—say, that of philosophers like Epicurus, Aristotle, or Plato and from our own experience—we could assert that Einstein's intellectual pleasure in making his groundbreaking discoveries represents a higher form of enjoyment compared to the more instinctual pleasure that a lion derives from devouring the antelope.

Personally, as someone who enjoys hearty meals like a thick porterhouse steak with potatoes and gravy, now and then, I can appreciate the immense satisfaction the lion finds in its bloody, fleashy feast. While all pleasures are inherently good, I believe that the higher pleasures of the mind—such as tranquility, intellectual fulfillment, and artistic creativity—hold greater value to me than bodily or material pleasures, which by the way, should not be dismissed as they are fundamental to our physical survival and mental, creative activities.

After enjoying my steak, I often take a walk on a lovely summer evening, allowing my meal to settle. However, just twenty minutes into my walk, my thoughts often drift to a painting I am working on; I find myself engaged in mentally exploring its technical challenges, such as perspective, tonal structure, artistic anatomy, etc., and its artistic application. This shift signifies a transition from a fleeting, material pleasure to a more enduring mental satisfaction. Again, I do not disavow the importance of our physical and material appetites, as many religious and philosophical systems have perpetrated historically on mankind. On the contrary, I enjoy them wholeheartedly when they arrive.

In my experience though, the enjoyment of physical pleasures tends to be short-lived, prompting me to seek out higher mental pleasures instead, such as reading history, philosophy, making music and art. At this very moment, as I write this post, I am immersed in the kind of intellectual engagement that Epicurus advocated nearly 2,300 years ago, a perspective echoed by other great thinkers throughout history.

Principal Doctrine, 20

"The body receives as unlimited time the pleasure's limit; but the mind, grasping the reasons and causes of this pleasure and removing all fears and desires and superstitions, receives as unlimited time, both the pleasure's limit and the tranquility which comes from rational thought."

I quote here Kochiekoch: "My take on the debate on the thread here is that pleasure is pleasure and the two are of equal value in the moment, but the scientist with his great discovery has the greatest pleasure over time. He gets to enjoy the accolade's as his discovery is confirmed and also gets pleasure from contemplating his discovery. He can use it as well as a springboard for future discoveries and pleasures from that. All consistent with the Epicurean perspective of mental pleasures being superior because they can be enjoyed in the present, past and future."

I want to reaffirm my agreement with Tau Phi's statement: "The pleasure of one cannot be considered 'greater' than the pleasure of another." However, this statement is valid only from the subjective viewpoints of the Lion and Albert Einstein. From a third-party perspective, it is controversial, if not entirely an untenable assertion, particularly among those who appreciate the pleasures of intellectual, artistic thought, and creation, and who have reflected on their value. In that case, Albert Einstein's pleasure in his scientific discovery represents a longer-lasting mental pleasure, one that can produce further mental pleasures, as it did for Einstein throughout his life, till his death.

...Oh, and by the way...I am having sizzling, juicy pork chops with salad for dinner tonight!

In last Sunday's discussion, I posed a question in response to Tau Phi's statement, which is paraphrased here on the site as "That the pleasure of the one might be evaluated as 'greater' than the pleasure of the other. Tau Phi may want to respond, whether this wording of his statement is correct or not. ...Moving on, the question I posed to Tau Phi, and which now I repose and have the opportunity here to give it more lively detail, is the following: ..."Imagine a lion has just killed an antelope and he has settled down to have and enjoy his delicious, bloody, and fleshy meal. And imagine Albert Einstein, the great physicist, having just discovered in the lonely dark of his bedroom, using applied differential geometry, that he had just mathematically described the curvature of space-time. And knowing that this discovery was a revolution in physics, upending two centuries of Newtonian Mechanics."...So, which is the greater pleasure, or more precisely, the 'higher pleasure, that of the lion or that of Albert Einstein?
Or if this kind of valuation is even possible concerning personal pleasures? ...Does Epicureanism not have a view on this?

Yes, Cassius, I will comment by Saturday evening or Sunday morning, as I am in the midst of teaching my Wednesday and Thursday Art workshop, which involves a total of 24 students and their artworks to attend to, plus slide lectures....
The discussions that I have scanned so far are fascinating.
I will start reading them in depth after today's classes and then comment.

I have been reading and recommend "On Epicurus" by Norman Lillegard which clearly breaks down all the fundamentals of Epicurean philosophy. And have been reading "The Pocket Epicurean" which is a short and well written guide to Epicurean ideas.

Thanks to everyone who attended the online meeting last night.
For me, it was wonderful to be in the presence of lovers of philosophy and particularly students of what I describe as the logical, practical, and pleasurable philosophy that a man named Epicurus remarkably developed more than 23 centuries ago, for us to guide our lives, to be pleasant and filled with the guiltless pleasures of the mind, and the body. ..Special thanks to Kalosyni for organizing the meeting and posing an interesting question for us to ponder.
....I would love to attend this Wednesday's study session, but I have an art class to instruct on Wednesday evenings.