Posts by Kalosyni

Hi all! I'm excited to share that I started a project to improve website navigation, and no doubt that Cassius will implement these ideas in the best manner as he sees fit. I'd like to eventually see changes in the drop-down menu in the future, but in the meantime we'll be adding this "Website Overview" as a page (as well as adding it to the homepage) ...It will have clickable links and more of a "bird's eye view" of what we have to offer. This is still a work in progress, as Cassius will be adding the code to the website to create the card view (boxes).

Table of Links:

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

During last Sunday's Zoom meeting I mentioned the newly posted book by Gassendi-Bernier.

Here is an excerpt relevant to food:

Quote

We have hitherto treated of Pleasure, as it is generally understood: We shall now speak of that particular specifick Pleasure unto which a Wise Man confines himself, as being in its own Nature not only very easie to be obtain’d, but also most lasting and free from Repentance. In a word, that Pleasure that we before called the Tranquility of the Mind, and the exemption of the Body from Pain, now we have great Reason to call it most Natural; for at this sort of Pleasure Nature seems chiefly to aim, as not having regard to other Pleasures, which are always shifting and in a constant Motion, any otherwise than to make them useful in the obtaining this; as for Instance; It hath appointed the Pleasure of Tasting, to make the action of Eating more grateful, and by that means to oblige us to the Act, whereby to satisfie our Hunger, which is that pain we feel, and caused by the cravings of an empty Stomach. But in reference to the satisfaction and tranquility of Mind which we enjoy when Hunger is appeas’d. This Nature hath reserv’d as her last End, and designed it as her chief Good: We have great reason to say, that it is very easie to be obtain’d, because it is in every one’s Power to moderate his Desires, by supplying himself with things necessary for his Body, whereby to free it from Pain, and thereby render his Mind calm and easy. I say, That it is very lasting, because other Pleasures pass away in a Moment, and free from us, whereas this continues the same, unless it be interrupted and perish by our own Miscarriages. Lastly, I describe it to be very free from Repentance; for all other Pleasures may be attended by some Evil, whereas, this is altogether innocent, and draws upon us no such Mischief. - pg. 113

Here is the link to "Three Discourses of Happiness, Virtue, and Liberty".

Also, I'm posting a video which explains how certain foods spike the release of insulin, which causes fat storage, but also certain foods greatly increase food cravings because of how quickly they are digested.

So it is important to see all the causes regarding cravings and over-eating - that food choices affect us greatly.

Here are the slides that I presented in today's Zoom:

From Horace, to Philodemus writing to Piso, to the Vatican Sayings - we've got quite a few passages on the topic of food, desire, and pleasure within Epicurean philosophy...which I will be bringing up in the short presentation tomorrow, and which may lead to more philosophical discussion questions!

Quote from Cassius

It's the Epicurean who really understands the virtuous / honorable position on these issues.

Could the word "wise" be used here instead? ...It's the Epicurean who really (or correctly) understands the wise position on these issues.

It's also likely that we will want to discuss the category of desire "natural/unnecessary" which some people like to label as "extravagant".

We are trying out a new format on the Fourth Sunday of every month for our Epicurean philosophy discussion. It will also be opened up to all registered forum members (regardless of member level) - and co-facilitated by Kalosyni and Cassius.

You can read about this Sunday's topic over in this thread:

Post

Sunday Nov. 23, 2025 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion Via Zoom - Topic of Discussion

Coming up this Sunday - November 23rd at 12:30pm ET - Via Zoom...

Epicurean philosophy discussion - co-facilitated by Cassius and Kalosyni...

Discussion Topic: What role does food take in an Epicurean lifestyle?

What are the limits of pleasure with regard to food? What role should food take for the modern Epicurean? (special food on the 20th? ...or a Mediterranean style of eating? ...minimizing sugary and processed foods?). How would you describe your own personal take on the role of food in…

Kalosyni

November 21, 2025 at 12:22 PM

* We will continue with all other Sundays being facilitated by Cassius and limited to only Level 03 members.

Here is the video recommended to watch before Sunday's meeting:

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Bread And Water - Debunking The Myth of Epicurean Asceticism - By Don Boozer

youtube.com/watch?v=NYyjUkkC1fk

Cassius

January 21, 2025 at 6:20 PM

Coming up this Sunday - November 23rd at 12:30pm ET - Via Zoom...

Epicurean philosophy discussion - co-facilitated by Cassius and Kalosyni...

Discussion Topic: What role does food take in an Epicurean lifestyle?

What are the limits of pleasure with regard to food? What role should food take for the modern Epicurean? (special food on the 20th? ...or a Mediterranean style of eating? ...minimizing sugary and processed foods?). How would you describe your own personal take on the role of food in your life?...Do you have a healthy living role model (or influencer) that you follow and recommend with regard to eating and food choices (doctors/dieticians/famous chefs/bakers)?

We recommend people watch Don's presentation on "Bread & Water: Debunking the Myth of Epicurean Asceticism" (link posted below).

Kalosyni will give a short presentation, followed by an opportunity for everyone to participate in the discussion through prompted discussion questions.

Fourth Sunday discussion is open to all forum members who have completed their registration by replying to their welcome thread. If you have not previously attended a Sunday Zoom, please message Cassius or Kalosyni to RSVP to this meeting. The Zoom link will be given out the day before the meeting.

We also look forward to seeing longterm members join in on this more active meeting format.

Hope to see you there!

Wishing everyone a Happy Twentieth!

Welcome to the forum Tony Fox

You might like this video overview by Cassius (if you haven't already seen it)...

Quote from Cassius

I have anticipated you Fortune and I have entrenched myself against all your secret attacks. I have not and will not give myself up as captive to you or to any other circumstance. When it is time for me to go, I will spit contempt upon those who vainly cling to life, and I will leave life crying aloud in glorious triumph that I have lived well.

This is a quote by Metrodorus. I also want to say that the "spitting contempt" part just doesn't make sense from an Epicurean standpoint - at least in my mind. The Epicurean would be too busy either: enjoying a last taste of something pleasurable, or busy remembering an event that was one of the best moments of life.

Welcome to the forum!

Quote from Daniel188

Eventually, however, my interest returned and I began comparing Stoic and Epicurean physics, and I've come to the conclusion that Epicureanism probably better represents what nature is.

Just asking for clarity sake...were you referring to the Epicurean natural physics or referring to Epicurean ethics based on nature/what is natural?

Happy Birthday sanantoniogarden!

In the book "Living for Pleasure: An Epicurean Guide to Life" there is the usage of the word "corrosive" for the "unnatural/unnecessary" category of desires. We have likely discussed this before, but it is worth bringing up again.

I would recommend against using the word "corrosive" for several reasons:

1) It gives a situation a kind of static state that sounds difficult to remedy (once something is corroded it is difficult to restore it back to its original nature), where as the truth is that the human mind can shift rather quickly out of the "unnatural/unnecessary" when realizing the truth of something.

2) It sounds overly "dramatic" (envisioning leaking battery acid that corrodes metal). And it attributes an aweful lot of power to desires, making them sound dangerous or "evil" (it almost has a "Christian puritanical" sound to it). But if you dig down to see what is going on then you will see that there are basic needs hiding deep below the surface (below the "unnatural" desire), but it is actually the strategy for meeting those needs isn't the best strategy. (Needs for safety, security, reassurance, or knowledge could be the deeper needs).

3) It doesn't accurately describe the biggest problem for things that are "unnatural" -- the main problem is that they are "empty" of happiness and pleasure (and that they cause more pain than pleasure).

----I think most people here on the forum would understand that "natural" is something that nature gives to animals or occurs naturally for animals. Where as, "unnatural" is something which is only an opinion with no basis in nature. Once we are clear about what these categories are, then we can decide how best to label them.

My own current take on the three categories of desires:

1) natural and necessary for well-being

2) nice to have but optional

3) empty, painful, or leading to unwanted consequences

Matteng this quote from the Hedonic Treadmill article is good:

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one potential way to keep happiness from fading is to mix up the elements of one’s positive experiences so that they are less repetitive. Another approach is to try to appreciate such experiences even more by making an effort to pay attention to and savor what is enjoyable about them.

I personally feel like the concept of a "hedonic treadmill" is not helpful. Instead just think about how you want to move toward happiness (and enjoyment) and away from pain, and that it is a learning process that occurs through trial and error. Then, over time as you get older you become wiser and your happiness levels increase.

And this is: VS17. "It is not the young man who should be thought [most] happy, but the old man who has lived a good life. For the young man at the height of his powers is unstable, and is carried this way and that by fortune, like a headlong stream. But the old man has come to anchor in old age, as though in port, and the good things for which before he hardly hoped he has brought into safe harbor in his grateful recollections."

And from Letter to Menoeceus: "...Wherefore both when young and old a man must study philosophy, that as he grows old he may be young in blessings through the grateful recollection of what has been, and that in youth he may be old as well, since he will know no fear of what is to come. We must then meditate on the things that make our happiness, seeing that when that is with us we have all, but when it is absent we do all to win it."

The young man will learn much sooner what brings a life of happiness (through the study of philosophy).

I want add to the discussion of pain, the fact that opium was available in ancient Greece as a pain reliever.

Opium - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org