Hi Everyone, Coming up this next Monday night is our monthly Epicurean Philosophy Discussion!
This meeting is open to all forum members
For those who haven't previously attended and are interested, just let us know here in this thread (and we will get the link to you by private message).
Thank you for asking Twentier and you now have that trophy.
Hey! Over here!
I am sort of on the fence...because some mornings I wake up an say to myself: "I too am a Hedonist"...
I am revisiting this thread without re-reading previous posts, just to say that I have been thinking again about how to make Epicurean philosophy more accessable. Some ideas:
1) Create a "sister-site" which gives a quick overview. We already have NewEpicurean.com...however...
...it would be nice to have something a bit more streamlined like a regular website which is geared toward modern times and is focused on practical aspects of applying Epicurean philosophy.
2) Get clear on the "existential" issues that Epicurus covers, and create "conversation starters" for in-person meetings.
I found this on how Athenian Ephebeia were religiously educated:
Is it possible that Cicero and others in ancient times used similar thinking as Anselm to decide that there are gods?
Anselm: Ontological Argument for the God’s Existence | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
During my study of it all this piousness seems to be coming back notoriously and sticking like a chewing gum to a shoe. Maybe Epicureanism was not intended as a guide for people trying to come up with their own recipes for their lives. Maybe Epicureanism was designed as yet another concealed ideology for people who are perfectly fine with buying a cookbook and never stray from its content.
I think that the main problem for us now is that half of the pages of the "cookbook" are missing.
We can see that people turned to Epicurus for answers about living a happy and good life. It seems unlikely that the "Epicureanism" during the life of Philodemus was exactly the same as the "Epicureanism" during the life of Epicurus. A whole group of people said: "yes "x,y, z" works but then it evolved and changed over time.
I'm thinking about this sentence for few minutes now and I can't see how obeying someone in authority is not 'blind faith'.
Now if you think about it, the original authority was "God". In current modern times many people do not believe in God, or perhaps they believe in a God which is only remotely involved with humans (more like "new-age" spirituality). So there will be many who feel taken-aback by the idea of "obeying". We live in a very independent-minded society also.
What about Mercury retrograde? Here is a fun, short explanation 
Wishing you a Happy Birthday Pacatus !
I did not take good notes at last night's Zoom, and I can't remember very much about what was said...
Is psychological hedonism the same as saying "motivated by your own self-interest"?
And it doesn't say much about what should be the focus of your self-interest, or about the kinds of choices you make, and whether or not things work out to give you good results.
Years ago, I read there was actual scientific evidence supporting this concept; so I did a quick search and came up with this item confirming the idea.
From the US government of all places!
Happy Twentieth!
The word "eudaimonia" comes up in the Letter to Menoeceus, in the Torquatus section of Cicero, and on the wall of Oinoanda. Can we say that Epicurus believed that both pleasure AND happiness were simultaneously the goal of life? Or would we say that eudaimonia is the same as pleasure?
It seems that eudaimonia isn't just a fleeting emotion of giddiness that arises when you get something that you want, but instead it is an expansive sense of fulfillment and completeness.
The word "complete" comes up in the PD's and VS's... Don or Bryan if you click on the note below you can see the Greek word μακαρία is used, which is a different word than eudaimonia. (Yet how things are translated depends on the translator).
PD27 (Saint-Andre translation)
| Of all the things that wisdom provides for the complete happiness of one's entire life, by far the greatest is friendship. [note] | ὧν ἡ σοφία παρασκευάζεται εἰς τὴν τοῦ ὅλου βίου μακαριότητα πολὺ μέγιστόν ἐστιν ἡ τῆς φιλίας κτῆσις. |
Don ... likely only one omphalos, which was located in Delphi? and was Delphi considered to be the center of the world, at that time? And which would mean that it is the Pythia and not Cassandra. (I was wondering why anyone would take the time to paint Cassandra onto a wall, but I haven't studied much about the frescos of Pompeii).
btw...seers were different than oracles (seers used divination rituals such as bird signs, animal entrails, etc, where as oracles "heard" the voices of the gods).
Welcome to the forum!
This morning I woke up to the most beautiful day, yet with the current state of the world (events over the last half year, and some events yesterday) an image of my Christian upbringing came into my mind - the scene after Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden of Eden, where there were angels blocking the gate so that they could not return to the garden.
In Judeo-Christian beliefs God created Adam and Eve, and I found this interesting article with the following quote:
From my viewpoint, a historical Adam and Eve is absolutely central to the truth claims of the Christian faith," says Fazale Rana, vice president of Reasons To Believe, an evangelical think tank that questions evolution. Rana, who has a Ph.D. in biochemistry from Ohio University, readily admits that small details of Scripture could be wrong.
"But if the parts of Scripture that you are claiming to be false, in effect, are responsible for creating the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, then you've got a problem," Rana says.
Rana and others believe in a literal, historical Adam and Eve for many reasons. One is that the Genesis account makes man unique, created in the image of God — not a descendant of lower primates. Second, it tells a story of how evil came into the world, and it's not a story in which God introduced evil through the process of evolution, but one in which Adam and Eve decided to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit.
The article also discusses how some evangelicals are grappling with coming to terms with a more scientific way of seeing the world, and that with an understanding of the science of genetics makes it clear that it is impossible that all of humanity descended from just two people. (This article was from 2011 -- read the article here.
Here we are in 2024 and the US is still very much under the influence of those who want to hold to the fundamentalist and strictly Biblical view in all things, with pushing for laws which are in alignment with their Biblical worldviews.
We could list out some very stark differences between Epicureans and Christians, such that they would be on opposite ends of a spectrum on several important issues.
Also, I wonder how the "myth-story" of Adam and Eve being barred from returning to Eden plays out in the minds of those who were taught this story as children (including myself). Is there is any subconscious retention of the idea that the earth is so imperfect and painful that there is no possibility of creating the pleasure and peacefulness of what existed in Nature?
Of course in Christianity there is the underlying story of how God created everything and that Nature is a subset of God...yet reading Lucretius/Epicurus helps us overcome this myth-story.
Today when I was out for a walk with my dog and we were heading toward a dirt road route we don't take very often, I noticed that grass had grown up and potentially could have ticks since there are deer living in the area. And then I thought to my self: "I shouldn't walk that way, I don't want to tempt the fates and get ticks on us."
So then I started thinking about "Don't Tempt the Fates" and why I said that. Seems like I was intending: "don't test your luck".
Found this in the Letter to Menoeceus:
"...and he holds that Fate is not an uncertain cause because nothing good or bad with respect to a completely happy life is given to men by chance, although it does provide the beginnings of both great goods and great evils. And he considers it better to be rationally unfortunate than irrationally fortunate, since it is better for a beautiful choice to have the wrong results than for an ugly choice to have the right results just by chance."
PD16: "Chance steals only a bit into the life of a wise person: for throughout the complete span of his life the greatest and most important matters have been, are, and will be directed by the power of reason."
In last night's Zoom, Joshua mentioned that he had memorized the opening section of Lucretius' De Rerum Natura, on Venus, and recalled it to mind when at work to cheer himself up during dull moments (hopefully I am correctly recalling what you said Joshua). I am wondering which translation you use?
Thinking that we could use this thread for people to post about any specific verses that they like to use (recall) on a regular basis.
In last night's Zoom meeting a PDF document by Bryan contained an image of Epicurus with calendula flowers. (Bryan perhaps if by chance you feel you want to upload the image to the gallery?)
I looked up and found this info on Wikipedia.
Ancient Romans and Greeks used the golden Calendula in many rituals and ceremonies, sometimes wearing crowns or garlands made from the flowers. ...
...Calendula officinalis oil is still used medicinally as an anti-inflammatory and a remedy for healing wounds.
