Posts by Kalosyni

Just adding this to the mix, as why in my mind vision and perception are inseperable and why I am thinking that the sense of sight can be true most of the time (99.9%) but not all of the time:

How vision works:

Vision: Keeping Your Eyes on This Prized Sense

Vision is the process that gives you your sense of sight. Learn how it works, what can affect it and how you can maintain and protect it.

my.clevelandclinic.org

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What is vision?

Vision is the process where your eyes and brain work together and use light reflecting off things around you to create the ability to see. It’s one of the five main senses and a key contributor to how most people understand the world around them.

How does vision work?

Vision starts when your eyes detect light and turn it into coded nerve signals, which then travel through your optic nerves to your brain. Your brain receives and decodes the signals, and turns them into the pictures you see.

...and this:

32 optical illusions and why they trick your brain

Artists and scientists have been creating optical illusions for centuries. Here are 32 mind-bending examples that prove you can't always trust what your eyes…

www.livescience.com

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Optical illusions play tricks on your brain and can make you see things that aren't really there, from static images swirling around the page to images that stay with you even after you look away. Scientifically, researchers use optical illusions to gain insight into how humans see and process visual information, although the mechanisms behind many of them are still a mystery.

Here is a good article for list making and getting things done:

I Tried 4 To-Do List Methods. Here’s What Worked.

There are a lot of methods out there for staying organized. But which method prevails? Over four days, I tried four ways of organizing my to-do list. I tracked…

hbr.org

Here is what is in the article:

1. No list, just a calendar:

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Rather than relying on Post-its or productivity apps, use your digital calendar to organize your time. For every task you have to get done, estimate how long it will take, and block that period off in advance. Markovitz argues that this method helps you better prioritize your work, gives you built-in deadlines, and keeps you from prioritizing super easy tasks. ...

...Would I do it again? As much as I love the idea of straight up shredding my to do list, if I were to try this method again, I would approach it a bit differently. I would keep a written to do list and schedule items from it on my calendar each morning. That way, I get both the structure of time-boxing tasks and the satisfaction of crossing them off.

2. Just "do one thing"

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The core concept is: Keep your to do list, but use it only as a reference — not something to work off of. Every time you want to tackle a task, write it down on a Post-It and stick it where you can see it. Then, hide your full list and focus. Once you finish your chosen task, cross it off your list, and start again.

The idea here is that by selecting one task at a time, you’re more likely to follow through on it, as opposed to hopping half-heartedly from task to task (or just staring off into space).

3. A digital task manager

4. Make three lists

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Basically, we have more tasks on our to do list than we can ever imagine completing. When this happens, we get caught up in a never-ending cycle of completing the easiest and most urgent ones, and fail to finish the ones that are most important. Instead of working off of one long list, Rimm suggests keeping three. List #1 is for important non-time-sensitive tasks (aka things you need to do eventually but not today). List #2 is for tasks you need to complete today. List #3 is for tasks that have been on your to do list forever, but that you’re never going to get done.

Once you have all three lists, start with list #2. Schedule the tasks you need to get done today on your calendar (similar to what I did on Monday). Then, take list #1 and schedule those tasks for future dates. By scheduling your tasks by priority, you’re acknowledging that your time is a valuable, finite resource. You’re more likely to complete meaningful work and throw away work that doesn’t really need to be done.

Here is an article which is very practical, and which I think can help increase anyone's ability to be effective, and therefore leave less things to chance.

Thinking anyone may want to create their own personal list of types of lists for their own life (...if you think of something not on the list you can post it in this thread).

Here are the lists which are suggested in the article:

1. Goals List

2. Gratitude List

3. Strengths List

4. Spending List

5. To Do List

6. Gifts List (birthdays of friends and family members)

7. Bucket List

8. Friends List

9. Doctors List

10. Shopping List

11. Wish List (for future purchases)

12. Get Your Sh*t Together List

You can Read more about each category.

For myself, I would probably make only some of the above lists.

I can see adding a "Books to Read List" and maybe even an "Epicurean Philosophy Concepts Study List"

Also, seems like might be good have a method to mark items which are of higher importance or higher priority on a given list.

Looks like more on Philodemus' On Piety is over in this thread:

Thread

Philodemus On Piety

Check out what came in on interlibrary loan this afternoon! I'll share thoughts etc on this thread. Stay tuned... epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/1550/

Don

December 10, 2020 at 5:14 PM

I found an interesting article telling about this scroll:

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The papyrus roll containing the first part of De Pietate was among those covered by the eruption of Vesuvius that buried Herculaneum, with its Villa of the Papyri, in A.D. 79. These carbonized scrolls were so distorted and damaged that the original excavators mistook them for lumps of charcoal. In 1787 the roll containing De Pietate was opened.

1997.12.19, Philodemus, On Piety Part 1. – Bryn Mawr Classical Review

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Enter now the malign gods of chance, muddle, and scholarship. When the first part of De Pietate was cut open, the two halves were for some reason given different catalog numbers and transcribed separately, with an interval of nearly two decades separating the transcriptions. One half, designated P.Herc. 1077, was drawn on two separate occasions between 1787 and 1809; shortly afterwards, the Rev. John Hayter absconded with several fragments of papyrus and the complete set of apographs, which are now in the Bodleian. The Bourbon government of Naples had another set of drawings made from the surviving fragments, but not before the edges of the outer half had been somehow severely damaged. Not until 1825 did the Italian technicians move on to P.Herc. 1098, the other half of the original roll, now believed to be a separate document.

Quote from Julia

a commitment to engage

I would say (in my opinion) that the only time that an Epicurean makes a "commitment" is when there is a pact or contract that is signed or agreed to between people (marriage, rental agreement, peace treaty, etc.)

For all other actions within oneself, I would see choosing as coming from a natural motivation to well-being and health (it is natural to want to feel good and feel healthy, but perhaps there are bad influences from "civilization" that erode this natural impulse).

Take for instance going on a diet (weight-gain and being overweight is due to unnatural coping strategies)....going on a diet only truly works when you see that not eating the teaspoon of added sugar every morning in your coffee, not buying the ice cream, etc etc, is actually more pleasurable than eating it...because you are imagining the pleasure you will feel in the future and your enjoyment of not having tight clothes and not feeling sluggish, but feeling rejuvinated and healthy. And eating the healthy food (veggies rather than too many carbs) is also thought and felt as pleasurable for the same reason). So there is no need for "commitment" but instead the "carrot of pleasure" and "the stick of pain" are the true motivators for becoming more healthy.

"Commitment" for me brings up the idea of "duty" and "obligation" based on "virtue" and "doing what is "right" ...but maybe that is just me.

Quote from Julia

I would like to present for discussion a perspective and (mostly) a choice of words

This sounds like it could be helpful on an individual level, but may not necessarily be helpful for finding agreement or concensus.

I always think it is important to go back to the extant texts, and study various translations. We have the concepts as they are presented in the texts, and then we can expand those specific texts to see how they can apply to modern day situations.

Another aspect is investigating modern psychology and neuroscience in specific situations. When you mention the word "play" that reminds me about something Don posted (an article or podcast) about including more play in one's life. (I'm not sure where that is located).

I apologize that I'm not being very helpful in discussing language usage which seems to be the direction that post 1 above is going in. ( Cassius maybe can help).

Quote from Cassius

I tend to doubt that that statement is true as a general tendency apart from the conditioning of religion / culture / upbringing. I would doubt that children raised in nature, who quickly get exposed to the cycle of life with the animals they see around them constantly being born and dying, would have any problem seeing for themselves that they too are part of the same cycle.

I found this on how young children have difficulty understanding the concept of death:

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Up to 3 Years of Age

• Do not understand death, but rather experience it as separation.
• Developmental task is to differentiate self from environment; accomplish through exploring contrasting states of being and non being in game playing.
• Senses feelings of adults.
• Depends on nonverbal communication for care, affection and reassurance.

3 to 6 Years of Age

• Cannot truly understand the meaning of death.
• Recognize it as something “special,” but unable to understand its inevitability, universality, irreversibility and nothingness.
• Magical thinking is characteristic, with the child believing in the power of his wishes.
• Common to consider death as retribution for bad thoughts or deeds.
• Play serves to relieve the reality of the loss; may seem not to be reacting to the loss.

For higher age groups you can read about it here.

Wasn't sure where to post this...I found this article which brings up a "prolepsis of "god" (and explains "System 1" thinking which sounds like Epicurean prolepsis).

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System 1, on the other hand, is intuitive, instinctual and automatic. These capabilities regularly develop in humans, regardless of where they are born. They are survival mechanisms. System 1 bestows us with an innate revulsion of rotting meat, allows us to speak our native language without thinking about it and gives babies the ability to recognise parents and distinguish between living and nonliving objects.

Will religion ever disappear?

Atheism is on the rise around the world, so does that mean spirituality will soon be a thing of the past? Rachel Nuwer investigates.

www.bbc.com

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In addition to helping us navigate the dangers of the world and find a mate, some scholars think that System 1 also enabled religions to evolve and perpetuate. System 1, for example, makes us instinctually primed to see life forces – a phenomenon called hypersensitive agency detection – everywhere we go, regardless of whether they’re there or not. Millennia ago, that tendency probably helped us avoid concealed danger, such as lions crouched in the grass or venomous snakes concealed in the bush. But it also made us vulnerable to inferring the existence of invisible agents – whether they took the form of a benevolent god watching over us, an unappeased ancestor punishing us with a drought or a monster lurking in the shadows.

Julia you may like this chart that I created, which is coming from a slightly different direction, and which is helpful for dealing with frustration, and incorporates an aspect of Epicureanism in making wise choices and avoidances:

Start at the top right where is says " I am noticing some tension and anxiety that is best described by the word "frustration", and then see which of the six below apply to the given situation, and then follow it downwards.

Quote from shahabgh66

On the other hand, what is the literal meaning of Epicurus? It means "the helper".

Also, it is worth considering that in many countries and languages there are names given to children (both male and female) which mean "helper" or "helpful". (Cody, Ezra, and Alexis are examples, and other names can be found online).

Just for clarity sake (and for later readers who may skim through this sometime in the future)...here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia article in post 2 above:

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The traditional view is that this word's derived from the Hebrew word for Nazareth (Nazara) that was used in ancient times.^[12] Nazareth, in turn, may be derived from either na·tsar, נָצַר, meaning 'to watch',^[13] or from ne·tser, נֵ֫צֶר, meaning 'branch'.^[14]

The common Greek structure Iesous o Nazoraios (Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος) 'Jesus the Nazarene/of Nazareth' is traditionally considered as one of several geographical names in the New Testament such as Loukios o Kurenaios (Λούκιος ὁ Κυρηναῖος) 'Lucius the Cyrenian/Lucius of Cyrene', Trofimos o Efesios ('Trophimus the Ephesian', Τρόφιμος ὁ Ἐφέσιος), Maria Magdalene ('Mary the woman of Magdala'), Saulos Tarseus ('Saul the Tarsian'), or many classical examples such as Athenagoras the Athenian (Ἀθηναγόρας ὁ Ἀθηναῖος).

The Greek phrase usually translated as Jesus of Nazareth (iēsous o nazōraios) can be compared with three other places in the New Testament where the construction of Nazareth is used...

Quote from Godfrey

Re post #12 graphic: also include PDs 15, 21, 26 and 29, in addition to 30.

Thanks Godfrey... I updated it

I am going to need to ponder upon post number 14, Cassius...and will reply later.

Drives for survival, health, and happiness do not require wealth, power, or fame.

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* Edit note:

Cassius I apologize for the cross-post

I should add to the above chart...that essential drives cause pain when unfulfilled (and they may or may not be easy to aquire).

_____________________________

* Have now updated chart

I made this chart as I was contemplating the various categories of desires. I came up with a few new labels, but these labels may or may not work for others. Everyone might want to consider if these labels or other labels help with cognition and clarity.

Any thoughts or further ideas?

__________________________________

* Updated chart Aug. 9th 1:22 pm ET

** Second update Aug.10th 10:52 am ET

Thanks Godfrey about referencing to PD30.

What is happening for me right now is that I am mulling over the these labels for the three categories, and mulling over if the labels are helpful for me or not

This is an interesting line of exploration Godfrey which may be useful in some situations. My only hesitation is that that I am thinking that certain things should be examined from the stance of whether or not they are realistic and based in reality, rather than labeling them as an "incorrect" desire (unnatural or unnecessary).

When one clearly see things for what they are -- and when one realizes that what they are wanting is not realistic or may have painful consequences -- then the desire for those things can evaporate/dissipate on its own.

Quote from Godfrey

SYNOPSIS OF THE CATEGORIES OF DESIRE:

Natural and necessary desires: a) some for happiness; b) some for physical health; c) some for life itself

Natural and unnecessary desires: a) due to groundless opinion; b) don’t bring pain if unfulfilled; c) require intense exertion

Unnatural and unnecessary desires: a) due to groundless opinion; b) don’t bring pain if unfulfilled; c) hard to achieve; 4) seem to produce harm

As far as I understand, only unnatural would be defined as due to groundless opinion.

So the way I would define "natural and unnecessary" - would be this: a) brings more pain than pleasure; b) produces harm; c) difficult to obtain; d) and, also at the same time as any of the previous three, it doesn't bring pain if unfulfilled.

There is a lot of interesting stuff here that may be useful, and I will linger over the list of questions for a little while longer, and then may say more.