Posts by Kalosyni

Quote from Don

I have thoughts on the word "goal" for τέλος ... But that'll have to wait until this evening

Just to flesh out a bit more about the "goal": "What does an Epicurean focus on doing?"

Because either you are 1) choosing for yourself and being intentional; or 2) you are just going along with what other people around you are doing (i.e. letting them choose for you or going along with their random whims); or 3) giving in to your own random whims and urges.

So if you are choosing your actions with intention, you need to know how much importance to put onto each option that comes your way.

Quote from Cassius

I don't see a way around explaining what Pleasure means in full, which is more than just sensual stimulation.

I firmly believe that Epicurean philosophy should be easily explained without having to re-define a common word.

In English the word "pleasure" currently has a specific meaning. And to the average person who has not studied the philosophy, it ends up conveying an idea that Epicureans just are just out to have a good time, and it very much is first understood as sensual stimulation or sensual gratification.

We use a different word for mental pleasure - it's called "enjoyment". And I feel like the phrase "pleasant experiences" encompasses both physical and mental pleasure.

Also, what is left out of "pleasure" is the use of reason to banish wrong opinions about the nature of life, the soul, death, etc.

So a goal could be to state all of that (enjoyment, prudence, and reason) in one succinct sentence.

This excerpt from the Letter to Menoeceus got me thinking...

"For it is not continuous drinkings and revelings, nor the satisfaction of lusts, nor the enjoyment of fish and other luxuries of the wealthy table, which produce a pleasant life, but sober reasoning, searching out the motives for all choice and avoidance, and banishing mere opinions, to which are due the greatest disturbance of the spirit."

We need to pay attention to how we hear and understand words. If we say "Pleasure is the goal of life" it ends up leading to a skewed understanding of Epicurean philosophy, by putting too much emphasis on food/drink/sex...and because there are those people who function that way even now in our current times.

So my idea is saying this instead: "Pleasant experiences are the goal of life" which can still include enjoyment of food, etc. and has a more grounded feeling (and includes prudence) compared to "pleasure is the goal of life" which has a "swinging from the chandeliers" connotation (or the sex/drugs/rock-n-roll").

"Pleasure is the goal of life"

------------VS-------------

"Pleasant experiences are the goal of life"

On the topic of Valentine's Day...I was just reading about "Palentine's Day" and "Singles Awareness Day"...

Which brings up the idea of also adding in the topic of friendship.

So to broaden the upcoming First Monday night discussion, we could also add that in...and also this: "What place does "virtue" have in relationships and friendships...kindness, generosity, etc, etc.

Regarding geometry, I found this article, which says Pappus of Alexandria talked about the hexagon, and it would also be Pythagoras who talked about the ideas of the hexagon as the perfect shape of nature.

The hexagon shape and why it shows up so much in nature

The hexagon is surprisingly present in many parts of nature.

www.zmescience.com

( Cassius if there is a better place for this article please move this)

Coming up next Monday night is our First Monday Epicurean Philosophy Discussion - Via Zoom, at 8pm ET. We especially want to invite any new members to join in the discussion, as this meeting provides time for meet-and-greet.

Agenda:

• Greetings and introductions
• Discuss latest popular threads on the forum
• Discuss the topic of the evening

If you have not yet attended a First Monday but are interested, please post here to let us know (or send a private message to Cassius or myself). The Zoom link goes out by private message the day before the meeting.

Hope to see you there!

Here is another way to word the title of this episode:

"Virtue is a means for pleasure, and not an end in itself."

- and -

"Good is that which causes pleasure or is pleasurable, evil is that which causes pain or is painful"

Thinking about ways to bring more pleasure into my life, and found this list, which has an assortment of items (but many of these are a matter of personal taste, not all of these would work, and... there could be many more things besides just these 50)...

Quote

50 Enjoyable Activities:

1. Go for a walk
2. Listen to music
3. Take photographs
4. Read a newspaper or magazine
5. Take a bath
6. Sit in the sun
7. Watch a movie
8. Laugh
9. Write in a journal
10. Work on a puzzle
11. Recall a happy memory
12. Coloring
13. Gardening
14. Spend time with friends
15. Do yoga
16. Swimming
17. Singing
18. Dancing
19. Go to a flea market
20. Drawing or doodling
21. Painting
22. Buy fresh flowers
23. Join a book club
24. Go to a farmer’s market
25. Be affectionate with a loved one
26. Play a musical instrument
27. Crafting (crochet, model building)
28. Get a manicure or pedicure
29. Cooking
30. Jogging or running
31. Play a sport
32. Go sightseeing in your own town
33. Read a book
34. Meditate
35. Watch a sunrise or sunset
36. Enjoy a cup of tea
37. Have a picnic
38. Visit a museum
39. Sudoku or a crossword puzzle
40. Play a board game
41. Look at old photos
42. Light a scented candle
43. Call a friend or family member
44. Hiking
45. Get a massage
46. Volunteer
47. Go to the library
48. Go to a park
49. Stargazing
50. Explore somewhere new

Source

And here is another list from another website:

Quote

List Of Pleasurable Activities On Your Own:

Spending time in your own company can be an easy way to increase pleasure – as long as your time is focused on some useful things. Here are some ‘you-time’ activity ideas…

– Read a trashy book
– watch a favourite movie
– Eat something that you haven’t tried for a while
– take a walk and really focus on what’s around you, rather then what’s in your mind
– Play a game or puzzle
– Doodle or draw a picture
– cook a favourite meal
– do an activity that will switch your body on such as a brisk walk or swim.
– Write a bucket list
– Find out more about something that makes you curious.
– dress up in your best clothes, just for the fun of it
– spend an hour spotting local wildlife

List Of Pleasurable Activities To Do With Friends:

Connecting with people that are important to you can be pleasurable in itself, but sharing a common task or goal and keep your mind focused. If this focus is on something pleasurable then you can get two benefits in on!

– Go for a walk together
– Cook a meal for them
– Write or call a friend you have lost touch with
– have a mini fun competition together
– play an old fashioned board game
– sign up to an evening class together
– have a spa day together

List Of Pleasurable Activities To Do With Your Family and Partner :

Spending quality time with your family or partner is a key way to increase your psychological wellbeing. However it is also one of the things that tends to get forgotten about first. Here are some ideas that don’t just mean you are together, but that you actually get to enjoy being together…

– Talk about something you’ve never spoken about before
– Eat a meal together
– visit somewhere new
– plan a holiday together
– Ask or offer a massage
– Do an indoor camping trip in your front room

Things To Keep In Mind About Increasing Opportunities For Feeling Enjoyment And Pleasure…

Remember that when you start increasing pleasurable activities in your life, that it is unlikely that you will experience a sudden and extreme change in emotion. Rather, by doing small and regular amounts of pleasurable activities intentionally, your mind will begin to learn to identify moment by moment times in which you get get enjoyment. The big picture here is that you increase you mind’s ability to experience pleasure – and whether you are happy with life, or are having difficulties currently, this can only be a positive change to make.

Source

Display More

This is an article about newly recommended limits on alcohol:

Excerpt:

Quote

On the heels of the surgeon general's warning about the cancer risks of alcohol, there's a growing consensus that less is better.

But this doesn't mean that people who choose to drink should give it up entirely. Though there's no precise answer on how much alcohol can be consumed without increasing health risks, many experts say an acceptable amount ranges from about one drink per week to no more than seven drinks per week.

This is significantly less than what is currently recommended. A review underway may lead to changes to U.S. guidelines this year. And many experts agree the current advice, which is up to 14 drinks a week for men and seven for women, is out of date and may be too high.

"I do think a change is needed," says Dr. Aashish Didwania, a primary care physician and medical educator at Northwestern University.

A growing body of research points to a link between alcohol consumption and an increased risk of seven types of cancers, stroke and premature death. But what's still debatable is the exact threshold at which risks increase. This likely varies from person to person based on their genetic risks and other lifestyle habits.

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/01/13/nx-s1-5251649/cancer-alcohol-wine-beer-surgeon-general

****

All I can say is listen to your body and how you feel. Also, perhaps as one gets older the body is less efficient in clearing out alcohol, so then at a certain point deciding not to drink any more alcohol - that's were I am now.

This morning as I was looking at a much needed cleaning project (needing to straighten up my house), it came to me that perhaps I have too much "stuff".

After listening to the video presentation by Don (and recall talked about the "simple" diet of most people living in ancient Greece), I was thinking about the definition of the word "simple", and found this online dictionary entry.

So often self-help websites give out a recommendation to return to a simple lifestyle, as an antedote to the "too much" of modern life (too much noise, too much traffic, too much commotion, too much stuff).

And yet, it seems this is an individual issue, as it is really about what feels right for each person - Epicurean philosophy says to pay attention to what feels pleasant and pleasurable. So some people may not need "simplicity".

What stuck out for me from the dictionary entry of the word "simple"...was the definition: ordinary. (Don may have talked about the word ordinary in his presentation, I'll need to re-watch it).

And I think we can end up cognating words in slightly different ways (as sometimes the word "simple" can be applied to a lack of intelligence, which gives it a negative connotation).

Another meaning is: easy ...(which does echo that what is necessary is easy to get).

I wanted to start this thread to discuss:

What place does "simple" have in Epicureanism?

So feel free to share your thoughts

"Of all this the beginning and the greatest good is prudence. Wherefore prudence is a more precious thing even than philosophy: for from prudence are sprung all the other virtues, and it teaches us that it is not possible to live pleasantly without living prudently and honorably and justly, (nor, again, to live a life of prudence, honor, and justice) without living pleasantly. For the virtues are by nature bound up with the pleasant life, and the pleasant life is inseparable from them." - Letter to Menoeceus

****

"Yes, just as we regard with favour the physician's skill not for his art's sake merely but because we prize sound health, and just as the pilot's art is praised on utilitarian and not on artistic grounds, because it supplies the principles of good navigation, so wisdom, which we must hold to be the art of living, would be no object of desire, if it were productive of no advantage; but it is in fact desired, because it is to us as an architect that plans and accomplishes pleasure." - Cicero "On Ends" Torquatus section.

Regarding Horace, I posted over in this thread:

Thread

Meaning behind Horace's Quote

(This must have been discussed some time ago at length, but could not locate it.)

As Don quoted (from this thread)

Horace for reference:

Latin
inter spem curamque, timores inter et iras
omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum:
grata superveniet quae non sperabitur hora.
me pinguem et nitidum bene curata cute vises
cum ridere voles, Epicuri de grege porcum.

English (Loeb Classics)

Amid hopes and cares, amid fears and passions,
believe that every day that has dawned is your last.
Welcome will come to you…

Kalosyni

January 22, 2025 at 8:16 AM

(This must have been discussed some time ago at length, but could not locate it.)

As Don quoted (from this thread)

Horace for reference:

Latin
inter spem curamque, timores inter et iras
omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum:
grata superveniet quae non sperabitur hora.
me pinguem et nitidum bene curata cute vises
cum ridere voles, Epicuri de grege porcum.

English (Loeb Classics)

Amid hopes and cares, amid fears and passions,
believe that every day that has dawned is your last.
Welcome will come to you another hour unhoped for.
As for me, when you want a laugh, you will find me in fine fettle,
fat and sleek, a hog from Epicurus’s herd.

***

I read this as creating a contrast between fear and the resultant asceticism of the Cynics, vs the "fettle" (good condition and health) of the Epicureans, when having enough to eat (and having some fat stores (rather than skin and bones) is helpful ahead of time when sickness comes because the body has that to use) and the laughter seems to be a reference of lightheartedness.

Decorated with fresh cut camellias, for the annual birthday celebration of Epicurus.

Wish Everyone a Happy Twentieth!

Today is the big day! Our livestream event takes place at 1:00 pm ET! All the presenters have worked very hard, and for all of you who love the study of Epicurus, these presentations are sure to bring new insights.

We will use our YouTube channel for livestreaming -- click here to go to the EpicureanFriends YouTube livestreaming (see post 9 above for Joshua's additional instructions for viewing the livestream). We will have live chat at that location where listeners can provide live feedback and ask questions.

Here is our line-up with presentation descriptions:

• "Applying Epicurus Accurately - The Epicurean Paradigm Shift" - Cassius Amicus, administrator of the EpicureanFriends.com forum and a co-host of "The Lucretius Today Podcast," will introduce the topics to be presented, and start with an explanation of a number of key topics on which Epicurus is often misunderstood.
• "Bread and Water: Debunking the Idea of Epicurean Asceticism" - Don Boozer, longtime EpicureanFriends contributor, will explain how it is a fallacy that Epicurus was an ascetic, and how one of the pillars of that view - that Epicurus promoted an austere diet - is incorrect.
• "Epicurus on the Perils of Applying Geometry to Ethics" - Joshua Elbert, co-administrator at EpicureanFriends and co-host of "The Lucretius Today Podcast", will explain how Epicurus diagnosed and remedied the error of those who seek to apply geometric reasoning to ethical questions.
• "An Elementary Fact Worth Bearing in Mind" - Bryan, longtime EpicureanFriends contributor, will examine several different translations of Diogenes Laertius' Lives and Opinions of Eminent Philosophers, Book 10, Section 47 (on physics) and explain the process of evaluating options when translators disagree.
• "Moderation in All Things is Not Always the Prudent Course" - Kalosyni, EpicureanFriends event coordinator, will explain how Epicurus focused on "prudence" - rather than "moderation" - as a key to happy living.
• Panel discussion and closing comments - After the presentations, Cassius Amicus will lead the panel in discussion of final comments on these topics, addressing comments and questions submitted by viewers in the livestream.

"Epicurean Art and Symbolism" is now renamed to:

-- "Iconography of Epicurus"

For Epicurean symbolism in literature, the place for it will be here or here.

The movies and fiction section is now in Social Postings.

On the discussion theme of New Year's resolutions:

Quote

"Having to exercise twice a day and be strict on my diet were really uncomfortable and new areas for me to tackle, because I hadn't had that conversation before," she says.

But since completing the challenge, she's noticing the lasting impacts so far.

"I exercise a lot more regularly, my reading habits and my relationship with food have transformed," she says.

75 Hard: Is the TikTok fitness challenge really worth it?

The challenge involves forgoing alcohol and unhealthy food for 75 days and doing multiple daily workouts.

www.bbc.com

What would Epicurus say?

Quote from Cassius

As i understand it nothing has been deleted, just rearranged so that posts that are more 'personal' are now more likely to be in a "non-public" section.

Also, posts which are "extra-curricular".

[Edit note, 5:37pm ET: For clarity, I should say "advanced material" which goes above and beyond the expected comprehension of Epicurean philosophy, such as interior decorating or making pencil sketches of Epicurus.]

Notice for registered members:

As per Cassius' request, I have both moved and re-ordered some sub-forums.

In these two forums especially you will notice some significant differences:

-- "General Information and Discussion - Start Here"

-- "Epicurean Art and Symbolism"

Our ongoing primary mission continues forward: "To provide a online home for the study and promotion of the philosophy of Epicurus"!