Thank you Eikadistes for your heartfelt post of your personal experiences. And sounds like it is pointing to a need to develop coping skills before hardship or difficult times occur - such as you wrote in your first paragraph about memorizing the Doxai (Principal Doctrines)...and also having an "Epicurean Serenity Prayer" (...I think I remember some posts on that a long time ago, will see if I can find them).
And so this is something to add to the above list in post number one.
Thank you Eikadistes for your heartfelt post of your personal experiences. And sounds like it is pointing to a need to develop coping skills before hardship or difficult times occur - such as you wrote in your first paragraph about memorizing the Doxai (Principal Doctrines)...and also having an "Epicurean Serenity Prayer" (...I think I remember some posts on that a long time ago, will see if I can find them).
And so this is something to add to the above list in post number one.
Welcome to the forum Carlos 
We have this sub-forum which you can check out (if you haven't already seen it):
And this thread also:
Some personal thoughts regarding the purpose of the study of Epicurean philosophy.
The purpose of studying Epicurean philosophy here on the forum is intellectual growth and personal development.
Epicurean intellectual growth is multifaceted:
Epicurean personal development is multifaceted:
Understanding the nature of anxiety toward death, as well as anxiety toward unknown potential events of the future (war, government instability, pandemics, etc), and working with these anxieties to find clarity and peace. Understanding the nature of the soul and the nature of death - we no longer exist after death.
(*Edit note - development of coping skills: "Epicurean serenity prayer" and memorization of key Principal Doctrines/Vatican Sayings - added on Feb. 18, 2025)
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If anyone thinks of anything else to add, please post
Some personal thoughts regarding the purpose of the study of Epicurean philosophy.
The purpose of studying Epicurean philosophy here on the forum is intellectual growth and personal development.
Epicurean intellectual growth is multifaceted:
Epicurean personal development is multifaceted:
Understanding the nature of anxiety toward death, as well as anxiety toward unknown potential events of the future (war, government instability, pandemics, etc), and working with these anxieties to find clarity and peace. Understanding the nature of the soul and the nature of death - we no longer exist after death.
(*Edit note - development of coping skills: "Epicurean serenity prayer" and memorization of key Principal Doctrines/Vatican Sayings - added on Feb. 18, 2025)
*****
If anyone thinks of anything else to add, please post
This functions as an an outline / list -- on ethics, and wanted to reference it (still a work in progress):
This is a good article, just in time for Valentine's Day:
Just for fun...
"When the girl returned, some hours later, she carried a tray, with a cup of fragrant tea steaming on it; and a plate piled up with very hot buttered toast, cut thick, very brown on both sides, with the butter running through the holes in it in great golden drops, like honey from the honeycomb. The smell of that buttered toast simply talked to Toad, and with no uncertain voice; talked of warm kitchens, of breakfasts on bright frosty mornings, of cosy parlour firesides on winter evenings, when one’s ramble was over and slippered feet were propped on the fender, of the purring of contented cats, and the twitter of sleepy canaries.”
– Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows
Source: Food Quotes
As I was listening to an audio recording of "Thomas Jefferson and His Time" by Dumas Malone, it mentioned Lord Bolingbroke, and that Jefferson had written this into his notebook:
"No hypothesis ought to be maintained if a single phenomenon stands in direct opposition to it."
AxA you may want to check out this section of the forum (if you haven't already):
Eikadistes seeing your graphics made this pop into my mind (used Canva to make collage and my tablet blending tool).
I think I'll learn a lot from this first attempt at a live meetup. I'll have to manage the conversation, make sure it's not just generic chat, and prevent anyone (including myself) from talking too much.
Perhaps this...using a book on Epicurean philosophy.
Probably the best "user-friendly" book is Emily Austin's book: "Living for Pleasure: an Epicurean Guide to Life"
Living for Pleasure: An Epicurean Guide to Life - Emily Austin
Al-Hakiim von Grof That looks like a good brochure! ...and perhaps AxA may want to use it (or something like it) for the Epicurean Meet-ups group he is starting.
kochiekoch Wishing you a Happy Birthday!
AxA Welcome to the forum!
That's great that you are starting a meet-up in Toronto.
And looking forward to meeting you at the next First Monday Zoom. I'll be posting the discussion topic about a week before. I will go ahead and add you to the group conversation - the meeting link will be sent out the day before the meeting.
sowhataustin Welcome to the forum!
"The wise man always has more reason for joy than for vexation."
You could almost use this as an additional "criteria" when you ask yourself: What will happen to me if I get what I want and what will happen if I do not get what I want. (paraphrase of VS71)
The lighthouse is always there. We steer our little boat towards the lighthouse. We steer away from the rocks and shoals by the beacon of the lighthouse. We choose to keep going through storms and rocks to get to safety. We don't sit out the storm, unless we're too far out to see when we have to heave to.
How does pain, pleasure, homeostatis, satisfaction in the feeling of being alive (Chrysippus' hand), doing what needs to be done for good longterm outcomes, etc. fit into this metaphor?
Pleasure exists as the omnipresent end-point of all our actions. We don't have to run the race to achieve pleasure. It is here, now, in every decision, every action, IF we're willing to admit that that is - in every moment - the final cause of all our actions.
Don it sounds like you are saying that the telos is the same as saying: "pleasure is the guide of life". (?)
Which then is very similar to saying: When the sky is clear it is blue - basically, an observation.
Many people have goals beyond their own pleasure — some give too much of themselves, others take too much for themselves, while almost all seek unnecessary change of some sort — and this leads them into many unpleasant and unnecessary circumstances!
Bryan it sounds like you are saying duty to "virtue" sometimes overrides pleasure as a guide of life. (?)
And what you said about: "while almost all seek unnecessary change of some sort — and this leads them into many unpleasant and unnecessary circumstances" - this may be worth a new thread discussion, to explore (if you have more to say?)
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What comes up for me now is that we really ought to be saying that both pain and pleasure are the guides of life. Because if you watch yourself during an entire day, how much of the time are you motivated by the desire to remove pain?
Of course the next thing that would be said is: "pleasure is the removal of pain". But this is doing word gymnastics (redefining words). If I go outside to pick some camellia flowers and put them in a vase and put them on my dining table, then this is done for pure pleasure. But if I drink water because I feel thirsty and it relieves my thirst, then I am motivated by the removal of pain.
I have thoughts on the word "goal" for τέλος ... But that'll have to wait until this evening
Just to flesh out a bit more about the "goal": "What does an Epicurean focus on doing?"
Because either you are 1) choosing for yourself and being intentional; or 2) you are just going along with what other people around you are doing (i.e. letting them choose for you or going along with their random whims); or 3) giving in to your own random whims and urges.
So if you are choosing your actions with intention, you need to know how much importance to put onto each option that comes your way.
