Posts by Kalosyni

I'm thinking that Vatican Saying 78 might make for a nice motto (especially the first part):

"The noble soul is devoted most of all to wisdom and to friendship — one a mortal good, the other immortal." (Saint Andre translation).

I think it is important to see that in studying Epicurean philosophy there are three things going on:

1) Knowing what exactly Epicurus said according to the extant texts

2) Understanding what he said and either agreeing, or coming up with a personalized understanding (which may end up slightly deviating from what Epicurus said)

3) Putting into practice what Epicurus said, or putting into practice one's own individualized interpretation

But it is important to be clear about not mixing up points (1) and (2) -- primarily for the purposed of this forum which is a place to learn what Epicurus said.

We are all free to decide if we personally agree or not, or if we want to be "eclectic" - and I've found a good place to explore that in my own private personal journal - as I sometimes experimentally flesh out my individualized ideas (and this is a suggestion for others if they need it).

This takes off the pressure to try to make Epicurus into something he is not. And helps the forum stay focused on exactly what Epicurus said in his Principal Doctrines and Letters. I always go back to the Principal Doctrines when my understanding feels unclear (or any confusion due to opposing or incorrect views).

You can find the Principal Doctrines here

On some level I am still having a hard time being able to integrate the idea of only two feelings: pleasure and pain.

The usual cognition of the word "pleasure" and which has been with me most of my life until encountering Epicurean philosophy, seems like it has almost an eternal "prolepsis" of being bodily sensation and a kind of movement/active state, (and pain being a sensation that is more than just a mild discomfort). In my mind this leaves out the state of "feeling satisfied" (and therefore not needing anything to be different than it is).

Feeling satisfied is pleasurable, but not in the same sense as eating chocolate or having an orgasm.

When I think about what I choose to eat, it's not so much about living longer, but more about quality of life ---> having and feeling good energy in my body and not carrying any extra weight (ideally I need to lose about 5 to 10 lbs.). I notice that I feel sluggish when I over-eat and I don't like the feeling when my pants waistband is too tight. I need to start implementing some changes and only bring home healthy and unprocessed foods into my house.

Is anyone else feeling like this is an issue in their life right now?

Here are some articles on how to change to healthier eating patterns. These are all common sense, but yet sometimes hard to implement:

Limit highly processed foods

Preparing foods with healthy ingredients and choosing healthier menu options are ways to limit highly processed foods.

food-guide.canada.ca

Healthy eating while eating out

The food choices you make when eating outside of the home are important. Learn how to make healthier choices when you are eating out.

food-guide.canada.ca

Choose healthy menu options

Choosing healthy menu options when you are eating out can be an important step to limiting highly processed foods. If you eat out often, remember that the…

food-guide.canada.ca

Modern life is a bit different than Epicurus' time...we have highly processed foods that are made to be highly palatable, and they are easy to get.

Here are two articles:

Excerpt:

Quote

Hormonal and neurobiological changes occur when individuals consume processed foods, especially highly palatable foods that are rich in sugar, fat and salt. These changes can contribute to the development of addictive behaviours and, ultimately, addiction.

It is well established that derangement of hormones can contribute to this process. Ghrelin is responsible for regulating hunger. Elevated ghrelin levels can drive hunger and increase food intake. On the other hand, leptin is responsible for signalling satiety and inhibiting food intake. Consumption of highly palatable foods, particularly those high in sugar, fat and salt, has been shown to disrupt the balance of these hormones; for example, it can increase ghrelin levels. As a result, individuals may experience increased cravings and overeating as signals for hunger and fullness become dysregulated. Additionally, consumption of processed foods has been hypothesised to lead to leptin resistance, where the body no longer responds to satiety signals.⁹ Disruptions in the normal interplay between ghrelin and leptin can result in overeating and continued consumption of these foods.

Source:

One size does not fit all: Understanding the five stages of ultra-processed food addiction | Tarman | Journal of Metabolic Health

Another excerpt:

Quote

The reasons that our bodies crave these foods is because they are loaded with ingredients that tap into the pleasure centers in our brain.

Source:

"Pleasantly Happy Pig" (made with clip art from Canva).

Happy Birthday ranc1

Happy Twentieth everyone and may your day be joyous as you celebrate today!

Quote from Don

if you just avoided it or are remembering a time that you almost stubbed your toe

You would have to remember stubbing your toe badly to gain any pleasure from not stubbing your toe.

Quote from Rolf

I was skimming through the Epicureanism Wikipedia page and noticed some potential issues.

Thank you Rolf ...These points from Wikipedia that you posted above have all been dealt with here on the forum by Cassius. There may be some short answers in the FAQ section and many longer answers elsewhere on the forum. So we may want to use these Wikipedia issues to create a document or article, and collect together all the writing that has been generated already here on the forum.

Thank you Rolf and that section of Letter to Menoeceus could also be a kind of rebuttal to perhaps the Cyrenaics. Also it enables a compare and contrast between two states. And it increases the sense of meaning conveyed when thinking through what is being said.

Don any thoughts on this? Maybe you have something to add about the use of negation in ancient Greek language, and the pattern of words that often occurs? Could we translate to a "positive" framing (and phrasing) without losing anything? ...And it seems we could only do so if we were translating directly from ancient Greek source texts.

Here is a further article:

How Does “Not” Affect What We Understand? Scientists Find Negation Mitigates Our Interpretation of Phrases

New study shows how the brain builds new meanings through word combinations

www.nyu.edu

Today this question is on my mind, regarding the often used negation in Epicurean philosophy (which came up when thinking about the phrase; "absence of pain") ...and of which there are many many concepts presented as a negation.

And I did this search online:

How do we cognate concepts framed in the negative, and can we rephrase concepts in the positive and still keep a correct representation.

Today it just occured to me that an in-person group could be started with this: "Introduction to Epicureanism: Through the Eyes of Lucretius" - and that the poetry of Lucretius may be a good way for people to "dip their toes" into Epicurean philosophy. So the next task would be to develop a week-by-week topic, with a short presentation and then follow that with discussion, based on Lucretius' De Rerum Natura. (I am also currently looking into library meeting rooms as a location for starting a group).

We have this sub-forum on Lucretius (which could be expanded with additional topics):

De Rerum Natura - Major Topic Categories

I was searching for where in Lucretius he talks about impermanence (Google AI says in Book 3) and happened on this introductory level article regarding "death is nothing to us", which contains excerpts from Luctretius:

Why Death is Nothing to Fear: Lucretius and Epicureanism | Philosophy Break

In his epic poem De Rerum Natura (On The Nature of Things), Roman philosopher Lucretius outlines why, even though there may be no overarching design to life,…

philosophybreak.com

(For the text references, I don't see what translation he is using, and so perhaps he has created a kind of paraphrasing of the text).

Very nice sanantoniogarden

This part brings up some questions:

Quote from sanantoniogarden

one should moderate expectations and measure out a path to maximize pleasure, neither too much, nor too little.

"moderate expectations" - this sounds like telling yourself not to expect too much which would be a different sentiment compared to something like "live within your means".

"neither too much, nor too little" - this sounds like a rule that is based on an idea of finding the middle, however there are times in which one might choose something that appears to other people to be "too little" or "too much" and this would occassionally be chosen because it brings good results in a particular situation (based on pleasure vs. pain in a particular situation). Also, sometimes in low-risk situations we might do something which appears to be "too little" or "too-much" just to experience what sensations come with those choices (sort of a testing out the waters) and as a learning experience, which helps us understand our individual sensations and what brings pleasure both in the short term and in the long term.

Welcome to the forum Rolf

You may enjoy listening to the Lucretius Today podcast interview of Emily Austin (if you haven't already done so)...

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Episode 156 - Lucretius Today Interviews Dr. Emily Austin - Part One

Welcome to episode 156, a special two-part Episode of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you too find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where…

Cassius

January 10, 2023 at 12:58 AM

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Episode 157 - Lucretius Today Interviews Dr. Emily Austin - Part Two

Welcome to episode 157, part two of a special two part Episode of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you too find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at…

Cassius

January 19, 2023 at 10:13 AM

Here is another slant on: "I spit upon the beautiful if it does not bring pleasure"... Article: "Suffering for Beauty Has Ancient Roots":

Quote

Men and women in ancient Greece took things a step further by slathering lead not just around their eyes, but all over their face. Their white lead face cream, according to a 2001 article in the journal Clinics in Dermatology, was designed to “clear complexions of blemishes and to improve the color and texture of the skin” and was such a big hit that lead-based face masks soon became all the rage.

‘Dead white’
Despite lead's health hazards, ranging from skin ruptures to madness to infertility, upper-crust Romans went on to use white lead (or cerussa, the key ingredient in those once-popular lead paints) to lighten their faces, then topped that off with a bit of red lead (or minium, currently used in the manufacture of batteries and rust-proof paint) for that “healthy” rose glow. Lead was also a major ingredient in the hair dyes of the day, either intentionally or otherwise. According to scholars, the place was lousy with lead and some have conjectured that lead-lined viaducts, cooking pots and wine vessels — and the resultant poisoning — helped bring about the fall of the empire.

Source