Posts by Kalosyni

Quote from Cassius

Sometimes the soda, beer, etc., is in fact the most pleasant option and worthy of being chosen.

It's all about reasoning through things.

Soda (as in any drink sweetened with high fructose corn syrup or sugar) is one of the top things that causes tooth decay, as well as disruption of metabolic processes (leads to diabetes) - but once or twice in a year wouldn't hurt (like if you were visiting a friend and all they had to offer was soda and it seemed easier to just accept the soda rather than ask for water).

Now beer may end up being healthier than soda, but I'd have to research that

Quote from Rolf

Quote from Cassius

the first and second most important doctrines on the list are telling you to first and foremost watch out for those who would manipulate you with bad motives.

Which doctrines are you referring to?

Quote from Cassius

Rolf

PD01. The blessed and incorruptible nature knows no trouble itself, nor causes trouble to any other, so that it is never constrained by anger or favor. For all such things exist only in the weak. ^[1]

PD02. Death is nothing to us, for that which is dissolved is without sensation; and that which lacks sensation is nothing to us.

And to add to what Cassius said, more specifically referring to those who are trying to convert people to a religious viewpoint which holds that a God will judge you in the afterlife.

Quote from Cassius

Epicurean philosophy teaches you to immunize yourself against many impositions by giving you a basic orientation toward the universe that helps defeat those negative forces in life.

There are so many things that are part of common culture that have nothing to do with a living a pleasant, pleasurable, and "blessed-as-if-living-like-the-gods" life -- and they are all just "empty opinion" (I'm especially talking about what we buy, and what we think we should buy, based on what everyone else is doing - food, clothing, home decor, etc.

Quote from Robert

As 21st-century Epicureans, how do you integrate it into your daily life? Is there any particular structure or set of practices involved?

Robert that is an interesting question. For myself, it is reading/study (online or books) and contemplation of the ideas and how to apply them to my own life.

Perhaps Eikadistes may have something to share in regard to that.

Post 89 above is set up as an anonymous poll. With the following question:

"What do you feel is the most important aspect of Epicurean philosophy?'

And, I think that this question would be important with regard to creating an Epicurean symbol.

Quote from Cassius

what individuals see as the most important aspects of Epicurean philosophy.

That sounds like a good poll question! (from post 88 above).

Epicurean philosophy says that the Universe has no beginning and no end.

Article excerpt:

"The current theory of how the Universe came into being can't explain the existence of the planets, stars and galaxies we see around us. Both teams are building detectors that study a sub-atomic particle called a neutrino in the hope of finding answers."

This article is about the Deep Underground Neutrino Experiment (Dune):

Scientists in race to discover why our Universe exists

Researchers in the US and Japan are competing to explain the existence of the planets, stars and galaxies.

www.bbc.com

Quote from Julia

wearing or publicly displaying a 20er moon with four dots on it, for example.

I think that this is an interesting investigation. Everyone will have unique ideas for what symbolizes Epicurean philosophy. It may take time for those who feel similarly (to wear or display) to discover what feels right for them. Perhaps everyone has their own personal "Epicurean symbol". We can have multiple symbols, but I think all "Epicureans" should be able to recognize the symbol without further explanation - because the symbol "should" (lol, in my opinion) clearly reflect an Epicurean idea. And so I think the four dots requires one Epicurean to explain to another Epicurean what it means, so for me personally it doesn't work (just my opinion).

Here are some more ideas for symbols (ideas rather than finished symbols, and so the atom could end up being rendered differently):

The atom itself:

The atom in the 20er moon:

Happy Twentieth Everyone!

VS11

"For most people, to be quiet is to be numb and to be active is to be frenzied." (Saint-Andre)

"For most men rest is stagnation, and activity is madness." (Bailey)

It feels like summer is approaching soon, and this is the time that many people may be getting ready to get outside to enjoy the weather or go on vacations - so I thought I would do a vacation themed graphic - and this one has a picture of Samos, the birthplace of Epicurus. I've never been to the island of Samos, and not sure I ever will, but there are lots of beautiful pictures online.

It's been a while since I've gone on any vacations, but remembering the past ones is very pleasant. I think that one of the most beautiful places I've visited was Lake Garda, Italy.

When you go on vacation and you are in a place that you have never been before, it forces you to take notice of things and it brings up the feeling of being very present, in the moment, as it unfolds. Also, it's good to find a really nice spot and relax for a while, rather than feel like you have to hurry up and see everything.

And if you aren't going on vacation this summer (for what ever reason), then going on a day trip to a place you haven't been before is a great way to get out and look around and fully enjoy the present moment.

If you want to share any thoughts and reactions to VS11, and thoughts on vacations, feel free to do so!

And Happy Twentieth!

The discussion on Plutarch's quote was moved here:

Post

The Garland of Tranquility and a Reposed Life

More on garlands;

Plutarch, That Epicurus Actually Makes a Pleasant Pife Impossible;

[…]

Joshua

May 17, 2025 at 5:35 PM

But it still ends up pointing to a wreath:

"In Classical Sanskrit, avataṃsa, vataṃsa and uttaṃsa (from stem taṃs, meaning "to decorate") ^[2] all mean garland, wreath, or any circular ornament, such as an earring^[3]; suffix -ka often functions either as a diminutive or plural. Thus, the title may be rendered in English as A Garland of Buddhas, Buddha Ornaments, or Buddha's Fine Garland." -- Wikipedia

...and yet we could think of the Principal Doctrines as a "garland" -- a collection of teachings.

Regarding Joshua's post 36 and this: Are they not those who say that the garland (στέφανος) of tranquillity and a reposed life are far more valuable than all the kingdoms and principalities in the world?

In Buddhism the garland represents a collection of teachings: "In Mahayana Buddhism, a garland, or avatamsaka, can refer to a vast collection of teachings, particularly within the Avatamsaka Sutra. This sutra is considered one of the most influential in East Asian Buddhism. In Sanskrit, "avatamsaka" can mean "a great number," "a multitude," or "a collection," and is often translated as "Garland of Buddhas" or "Buddha's Fine Garland," according to Wikipedia."

Quote from Julia

I think a symbol should be so simple that an average 8yo child could reproduce it

A long time ago I tried drawing a nice looking yin-yang symbol...it looks simple right? ...I ended up going to the library and making a photocopy from a book .

Here is something I made using Canva layers (for the shapes and colors) together with a text-to-image (the woodcut).

Quote from Don

One thing to watch out for in conversations like this is not to fall into the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

For a movie character or a fictional literary character, we could still apply an absolute when we are using it to point to something -- using it as a model.

But for an actual human being, we can't expect someone to always do things a certain way, so more correctly would say "usually", "most of the time" -- acts in a certain way.

I'm pondering this question today (again)...of which there are two sides...1) "what would make me Epicurean" and 2) "what would make someone else Epicurean" or to "appear to be Epicurean" (such as people we know or characters in a movie).

And I want to focus on the the second one, which is somewhat of a projection of "what "qualifies"(lol, hypothetically) someone as being Epicurean" or even better to say is as: "what qualities and actions would an Epicurean" exhibit, such as we could then say "that person is Epicurean".

And here are a few thoughts on this off the top of my head:

-- an Epicurean knows how to exercise their thinking process to make good choices that result in good outcomes, for their personal happiness and well-being (physical and mental well-being), both in the short-term and in the long-term. (Letter to Menoeceus and Principal Doctrines).

-- an Epicurean lives neither as a secluded ascetic, nor as sleepy sluggard or addict, nor as a wild bohemian party animal, nor as a work-aholic -- but instead finds a pleasing and pleasant sense of a well functioning life. (Vatican Saying 11: "For most people, to be quiet is to be numb and to be active is to be frenzied.")

-- an Epicurean spends time studying or contemplating the nature of things as the material (what is, its nature, its causes, its beginnings and endings) rather than the ideal/forms. (Letter to Menoeceus and Lucretius).

Thoughts? Anything else?

Quote from Rolf

But that’s only your preference in extravagant desires, right?

In post number 12 above Rolf you wrote something that I was unclear about what exactly you were trying to convey -- I'm not sure what "extravagant desires" has to do with this?? ---- "extravagant desires" being the same as "natural but unnecessary"?? ----- btw...I personally don't use "extravagant" or "fancy" when it comes to "natural but unnecessary" because I feel like it changes the meaning, but of course this is an area in which there is disagreement regarding how to label and what exactly it means.

Also, I see now (as well as remember) that not only is there no way to tell someone what they "should" or "shouldn't" do, but it seems that we can't tell someone what is "natural but unnecessary".

And we can't tell someone what actions lead to bad consequences either, because that is uncertain.

We can only choose for ourselves what feels like the best actions. (I will in the future refrain from any "shoulds" and "shouldn'ts).

Quote from Rolf

But that’s only your preference in extravagant desires, right?

I am not sure what you are saying here... can you rephrase your idea with different words to help me understand?

Quote from Rolf

statement about what media an epicurean should or should not engage with (so long as it does not lead to more pain than pleasure).

You are right, because pain and pleasure is subjective, so I can only talk about my own pain and pleasure.

Quote from Rolf

It reminds me of the Christians who refuse to let their kids read Harry Potter because magic is satanic.

I don't think Epicurean philosophy would say Harry Potter is satanic, ...however Harry Potter it is promoting "superstition" and that the material can be affected in a non-material way ...and so it is really the same as Christianity, just packaged differently.

Quote from Godfrey

A wealth of pleasures are waiting to be had, if one chooses wisely.

Yes, and there are certainly movies that do not use gratuitous violence or other unpleasant aspects or characters - for those like myself who tends toward "high emotional absorption" (empathy).

Quote from Kalosyni

to observe their sense of whether or not they are feeling more pleasure than pain. It is a subjective thing for everyone.

Another thought...to ask: Is it making a person happy or helping to create a sense of well-being? Or is it causing sadness, anxiety, or un-easiness?

Everything is subjective, and affects people differently.