Posts by Kalosyni

Quote from Don

if you just avoided it or are remembering a time that you almost stubbed your toe

You would have to remember stubbing your toe badly to gain any pleasure from not stubbing your toe.

Quote from Rolf

I was skimming through the Epicureanism Wikipedia page and noticed some potential issues.

Thank you Rolf ...These points from Wikipedia that you posted above have all been dealt with here on the forum by Cassius. There may be some short answers in the FAQ section and many longer answers elsewhere on the forum. So we may want to use these Wikipedia issues to create a document or article, and collect together all the writing that has been generated already here on the forum.

Thank you Rolf and that section of Letter to Menoeceus could also be a kind of rebuttal to perhaps the Cyrenaics. Also it enables a compare and contrast between two states. And it increases the sense of meaning conveyed when thinking through what is being said.

Don any thoughts on this? Maybe you have something to add about the use of negation in ancient Greek language, and the pattern of words that often occurs? Could we translate to a "positive" framing (and phrasing) without losing anything? ...And it seems we could only do so if we were translating directly from ancient Greek source texts.

Here is a further article:

How Does “Not” Affect What We Understand? Scientists Find Negation Mitigates Our Interpretation of Phrases

New study shows how the brain builds new meanings through word combinations

www.nyu.edu

Today this question is on my mind, regarding the often used negation in Epicurean philosophy (which came up when thinking about the phrase; "absence of pain") ...and of which there are many many concepts presented as a negation.

And I did this search online:

How do we cognate concepts framed in the negative, and can we rephrase concepts in the positive and still keep a correct representation.

Today it just occured to me that an in-person group could be started with this: "Introduction to Epicureanism: Through the Eyes of Lucretius" - and that the poetry of Lucretius may be a good way for people to "dip their toes" into Epicurean philosophy. So the next task would be to develop a week-by-week topic, with a short presentation and then follow that with discussion, based on Lucretius' De Rerum Natura. (I am also currently looking into library meeting rooms as a location for starting a group).

We have this sub-forum on Lucretius (which could be expanded with additional topics):

De Rerum Natura - Major Topic Categories

I was searching for where in Lucretius he talks about impermanence (Google AI says in Book 3) and happened on this introductory level article regarding "death is nothing to us", which contains excerpts from Luctretius:

Why Death is Nothing to Fear: Lucretius and Epicureanism | Philosophy Break

In his epic poem De Rerum Natura (On The Nature of Things), Roman philosopher Lucretius outlines why, even though there may be no overarching design to life,…

philosophybreak.com

(For the text references, I don't see what translation he is using, and so perhaps he has created a kind of paraphrasing of the text).

Very nice sanantoniogarden

This part brings up some questions:

Quote from sanantoniogarden

one should moderate expectations and measure out a path to maximize pleasure, neither too much, nor too little.

"moderate expectations" - this sounds like telling yourself not to expect too much which would be a different sentiment compared to something like "live within your means".

"neither too much, nor too little" - this sounds like a rule that is based on an idea of finding the middle, however there are times in which one might choose something that appears to other people to be "too little" or "too much" and this would occassionally be chosen because it brings good results in a particular situation (based on pleasure vs. pain in a particular situation). Also, sometimes in low-risk situations we might do something which appears to be "too little" or "too-much" just to experience what sensations come with those choices (sort of a testing out the waters) and as a learning experience, which helps us understand our individual sensations and what brings pleasure both in the short term and in the long term.

Welcome to the forum Rolf

You may enjoy listening to the Lucretius Today podcast interview of Emily Austin (if you haven't already done so)...

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Episode 156 - Lucretius Today Interviews Dr. Emily Austin - Part One

Welcome to episode 156, a special two-part Episode of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you too find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where…

Cassius

January 10, 2023 at 12:58 AM

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Episode 157 - Lucretius Today Interviews Dr. Emily Austin - Part Two

Welcome to episode 157, part two of a special two part Episode of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you too find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at…

Cassius

January 19, 2023 at 10:13 AM

Here is another slant on: "I spit upon the beautiful if it does not bring pleasure"... Article: "Suffering for Beauty Has Ancient Roots":

Quote

Men and women in ancient Greece took things a step further by slathering lead not just around their eyes, but all over their face. Their white lead face cream, according to a 2001 article in the journal Clinics in Dermatology, was designed to “clear complexions of blemishes and to improve the color and texture of the skin” and was such a big hit that lead-based face masks soon became all the rage.

‘Dead white’
Despite lead's health hazards, ranging from skin ruptures to madness to infertility, upper-crust Romans went on to use white lead (or cerussa, the key ingredient in those once-popular lead paints) to lighten their faces, then topped that off with a bit of red lead (or minium, currently used in the manufacture of batteries and rust-proof paint) for that “healthy” rose glow. Lead was also a major ingredient in the hair dyes of the day, either intentionally or otherwise. According to scholars, the place was lousy with lead and some have conjectured that lead-lined viaducts, cooking pots and wine vessels — and the resultant poisoning — helped bring about the fall of the empire.

Source

We also have these two sub-forums:

Justice (Including Security And Social Structures)

Virtue (A Means for Pleasure, Not an End in Itself)

Thank you to everyone who attended last night's Zoom. I found it to be a very interesting discussion last night, and still thinking about some aspects of it (especially the discussion between AxA and TauPhi ).

Without a god which gave moral mandates as absolutes, then we see that moral precepts are a product of humans living together with other humans and desiring to find safety, trust, and peace, rather than creating fear, distrust, anger and perpetual violence. So we as groups of humans living in community can then come up with a set of actions which result in better living conditions, and from these we create laws of justice, and then these laws must also be backed up by an honest judicial system to justly punish those who break the laws. (The punish aspect is also a protective aspect).

For any further discussion on the specific Delphic maxims, there is an earlier thread that we can use:

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Delphic Maxims from an Epicurean Perspective

Thought about this on my morning walk today. The three maxims said to have been inscribed on the temple of the Oracle at Delphi are probably most well known through Socrates emphasis of "know thyself." But there were three inscriptions plus 147 maxims ascribed to the Seven Sages. For a summary, check out the Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphic_maxims?wprov=sfla1

What got me on my walk was thinking about the first maxim, then that led to thinking about the others.

My question…

Don

June 19, 2023 at 12:22 PM

Three more videos for learning Greek dance:

This one would be fun to do on a Twentieth:

...and this one has a turn added in!

And for the dancers who want learn the Zorba dance:

Happy Birthday Jesse !

This is also relevant for tomorrow evening's Zoom discussion, on the Delphic Maxims:

Quote

Later tradition ascribed to each sage a pithy saying of his own, but ancient as well as modern scholars have doubted the legitimacy of such ascriptions.^[12] A compilation of 147 maxims, inscribed at Delphi, was preserved by the fifth century CE scholar Stobaeus as "Sayings of the Seven Sages",^[13] but "the actual authorship of the ... maxims set up on the Delphian temple may be left uncertain. Most likely they were popular proverbs, which tended later to be attributed to particular sages."^[14]

Seven Sages of Greece

And fragment 182 -- Epicurus asks to be sent cheese.

Quote from AxA

just eating bread, olives and water after a long walk for “hunger sauce” lol).”

Regarding "just eating bread,..." --- VS. 63 - Frugality too has a limit, and the man who disregards it is like him who errs through excess.

AxA That's great that you had another meeting with such a good turn out!

Quote from AxA

We ended with: “The optional “homework” is to think of ways of bringing this philosophy to life other than talking. Conversation will always of course have an important place in philosophy, but I’m interested in all the other ways to turn these ideas into real life effects. The suggestions so far have been boxing, interpretive dance, and eating (either feasting on cheese or just eating bread, olives and water after a long walk for “hunger sauce” lol).”

Some thoughts and suggestions...

The philosophy of Epicurus has many conceptual sub-categories dealing with specific aspects:

--knowledge and study of natural physics

--the knowledge of how we can know if something is true

--overcoming the fear of death through understanding the true nature of human beings

--the true nature of pleasure and pain

--prudence and wise choices

--pursuing pleasure and ethical living which leads to well-being (eudiamonia)

You could create specific homework assignments that deal with these and other specific aspects and concepts of Epicurean Philosophy which would require study and contemplation.

Coming up this next Monday on April 7th - First Monday Epicurean Philosophy Zoom Discussion!

This month's topic: "The Delphic Maxims Through the Lens of Epicurean Philosophy"

Here are some reference websites if you are interested in reading about it before the meeting:

Temple of Apollo at Delphi – Ancient Greece: Φώς & Λέξη

List of maxims

Wikipedia entry

Agenda:

- Welcome and round-the-table greetings

- Short presentation on the Delphic Maxims (by Kalosyni)

- Discussion: "The Delphic Maxims Through the Lens of Epicurean Philosophy"

Note on how to attend: If you have not previously attended a First Monday, or have been absent from the forum for a while, let us know if you are interested so we can add you to the meeting link private message which will go out the day before the meeting.

Hope to see you there!

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Edit note: Here is another website with slightly different translations of the maxims.

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Additional edit note: This may be of interest - commentary.