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  1. EpicureanFriends - Dedicated To The Study And Promotion Of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Kalosyni
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Posts by Kalosyni

  • Comparing Cicero's "De Officiis", Thomas Jefferson's "Social Duties", and Epicurean Philosophy

    • Kalosyni
    • July 23, 2025 at 11:25 AM

    Cassius Admin Edit: Cicero's "De Officiis" is one of his most famous works. From Wikipedia:

    The legacy of De Officiis is profound. Although not a Christian work, in 390 St. Ambrose declared it legitimate for the Church to use (along with everything else Cicero, and the equally popular Roman philosopher Seneca, had written). It became a moral authority during the Middle Ages. Of the Church Fathers, St. Augustine, St. Jerome and even more so St. Thomas Aquinas, are known to have been familiar with it.[12] Illustrating its importance, some 700 handwritten copies remain extant in libraries around the world dating back to before the invention of the printing press. Though this does not surpass the Latin grammarian Priscian's 900 extant handwritten copies, it places De Officiis far above many classical works. Following the invention of the printing press, De Officiis was the third book to be printed—third only to the Gutenberg Bible and Donatus's Ars Minor, which was the first printed book.[a]

    , but it has been many years since I read it. I don't see it discussed very frequently in Epicurean commentary because I don't recall that it makes as much specific reference to Epicurus as some of his other works, but no doubt the references are there and just need pulling out.

    The Walter Miller translation at Gutenberg is here.

    I'll tag this thread with #Morality and we can add to this section some of our general dicsussions about morality and social duties, and eventually go through this text to pull out what we can find about attitudes toward Epicurean social duties - as referenced in this post by Kalosyni.


    Separation of church and state in the United States - Wikipedia

    Excerpt from the Wikipedia article "Separation of church and state":

    Quote

    The principle is paraphrased from Jefferson's "separation between Church & State". It has been used to express the understanding of the intent and function of this amendment, which allows freedom of religion. It is generally traced to a January 1, 1802, letter by Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper.

    Jefferson wrote:

    Quote

    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.[1]

    This: ..."that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions"...

    and..."I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties"

    So then the question is what are a person's "social duties"?

  • Welcome Sam_Qwerty!

    • Kalosyni
    • July 23, 2025 at 9:39 AM

    Welcome to the forum @Sam_Qwerty ! :)

    Quote from Sam_Qwerty

    ...meaninglessness of existence...

    You may be interested in checking out this sub-forum, if you haven't yet already seen it:

    Answering the "Quest For Meaning" In Epicurean Terms

  • "Christianizing the Roman Empire (A.D. 100-400)" Ramsay MacMullen, Yale UP, 1984

    • Kalosyni
    • July 21, 2025 at 8:35 AM

    He also wrote: Corruption and the Decline of Rome

  • "Christianizing the Roman Empire (A.D. 100-400)" Ramsay MacMullen, Yale UP, 1984

    • Kalosyni
    • July 21, 2025 at 8:17 AM

    This is just an aside, but an interesting read:

    Ramsay MacMullen, distinguished Roman historian and Yale citizen
    MacMullen, Dunham Professor Emeritus of History and Classics and one of the greatest Roman historians of his age, died on Nov. 27. He was 94.
    news.yale.edu

    An excerpt:

    Quote

    His wide learning (he was famous for his numerous and lengthy footnotes) enabled him to look beyond the historical parameters of other historians, and to use abundant unnoticed evidence concerning Romans in their individual and family rites and daily life to advance his views. His books, and the attention and acclaim they received, were influential in opening the now established field of social history.

    John Matthews, the John M. Schiff Professor Emeritus of Classics and History, has stated that MacMullen added something “broader” to the usual scholarly writing on the subject by “posing open questions and addressing them with a far greater range of texts than most were accustomed to — inscriptions, papyri, archaeological reports, literary texts from unfashionable periods of history, many of them texts whose relevance was, precisely, not agreed.”

  • Happy Twentieth of July 2025!

    • Kalosyni
    • July 20, 2025 at 2:20 PM
    Quote from Don

    αὔριον εἰς λιτήν σε καλιάδα, φίλτατε Πείσων,
    ἐξ ἐνάτης ἕλκει μουσοφιλὴς ἕταρος,
    εἰκάδα δειπνίζων ἐνιαύσιον: εἰ δ᾽ ἀπολείψεις
    οὔθατα καὶ Βρομίου χιογενῆ πρόποσιν,
    ἀλλ᾽ ἑτάρους ὄψει παναληθέας, ἀλλ᾽ ἐπακούσῃ
    Φαιήκων γαίης πουλὺ μελιχρότερα:
    ἢν δέ ποτε στρέψῃς καὶ ἐς ἡμέας ὄμματα, Πείσων,
    ἄξομεν ἐκ λιτῆς εἰκάδα πιοτέρην.

    Display More

    Translation?

    Hope to see you next time! :)

  • Happy Twentieth of July 2025!

    • Kalosyni
    • July 20, 2025 at 7:35 AM

    Happy Twentieth of July 2025!

    Vatican Saying 21: "Nature must be persuaded, not forced. And we will persuade nature by fulfilling the necessary desires, and the natural desires too if they cause no harm, but sharply rejecting the harmful desires".

  • Happy Birthday General Thread

    • Kalosyni
    • July 19, 2025 at 9:05 AM

    Charles Happy Birthday! :)

  • VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere

    • Kalosyni
    • July 17, 2025 at 8:59 AM

    VS47. "I have anticipated thee, Fortune, and entrenched myself against all thy secret attacks. And I will not give myself up as captive to thee or to any other circumstance; but when it is time for me to go, spitting contempt on life and on those who vainly cling to it, I will leave life crying aloud a glorious triumph-song that I have lived well." (Bailey translation)

    I am wondering if it literally says "spitting contempt on life" or what exactly it said?

    Don  Bryan  Eikadistes

  • Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living

    • Kalosyni
    • July 17, 2025 at 8:55 AM

    I have some questions about the wording of VS47 and will ask over in this thread for examining the translation:

    Thread

    VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere

    This saying is attributed to Metrodorus.

    Here is the manuscript of VS47

    epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/4774/

    (Source: Vat.gr.1950, part 2, 403verso)

    And here is the text in Metrodori Epicurei Fragmenta collegit scriptoris incerti Epicurei Commentarium moralem, subiecit Alfredus Koerte (p.561)

    epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/4775/

    That famous word "triumph-song" does not appear in the manuscript! It is a "correction" by Usener, clearly shown in the manuscript itself and in Note (5) in…
    Don
    May 23, 2024 at 6:46 AM
  • Welcome Simteau!

    • Kalosyni
    • July 16, 2025 at 9:48 AM

    Welcome to the forum Simteau !

    You may like to check out this introductory video by Cassius:

    Please feel free to ask any questions you may have here in this thread. 😊

  • Preuss - "Epicurean Ethics - Katastematic Hedonism"

    • Kalosyni
    • July 15, 2025 at 4:38 AM
    Quote from Eikadistes

    Side-note: AI is now citing the interpretations presented in this forum:

    I entered this question into Google: "does ai on Google search prioritize websites you have previously viewed"

    And here was the ai reply:

    Quote

    "Yes, Google Search's AI algorithms do factor in your past browsing and search history to personalize your search results"

    So then this means that everyone gets slightly different results on their Google queries.

    Here is second query and the first part of what Google ai said:

    Quote

    Yes, search results on Google (or any major search engine) can vary for different users even when they enter the same search query. This is due to a combination of personalization and contextual factors.

    Here's why:

    • Personalization:

      Google uses your past search history, location, language settings, and other factors to tailor results for you, making them more relevant to your interests and needs.

      ...

  • Welcome DistantLaughter!

    • Kalosyni
    • July 12, 2025 at 10:58 AM

    Welcome to the forum DistantLaughter !

    Just a note for something to look out for here on the forum regarding "katastematic pleasure" that there is some variance in how members here on the forum define and apply that.

    I myself have ideas about it that I have yet to fully develop. Also, it is based on the larger context of "choice and avoidance" and it is going to be understood and applied differently depending on variations of extroversion/introversion (and also differences in physiological stress tolerance).

  • Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living

    • Kalosyni
    • July 12, 2025 at 10:49 AM
    Quote from Cassius

    helpful for understanding why Epicurus phrased things he way he did, and why a basic formulation such as "...we call pleasure the beginning and end of the happy life)

    This may be pedantic, but to be precise in current meaning and clarity:

    ..."the start and the goal" ...and not: "the start and the cessation".

    (After having studied Buddhism "the end" meant "cessation").

  • Epicurus and the Pleasure of the Stomach

    • Kalosyni
    • July 9, 2025 at 9:59 AM

    Don "How to eat like a stoic" ...a "stoic-friendly" lentil soup...he says that they don't get to use garum (fish sauce). :/

    But the full Roman recipe has quite a few ingredients (starts approx. at 2:25 into the video).

  • Epicurus And The Dylan Thomas Poem - "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

    • Kalosyni
    • July 8, 2025 at 8:20 PM
    Quote from kochiekoch

    He had pneumonia, a fatty liver due to heavy alcohol use and alleged poor care at the hospital where he was at. All at aged 39

    According to Diogenes Laertius Book 10, the Epicurean wise man sayings: "Only the Wise man could discourse rightly on music and poetry, but in practice he would not compose poems."

  • Happy Birthday General Thread

    • Kalosyni
    • July 8, 2025 at 7:59 AM

    Eikadistes Wishing you a Happy Birthday! :)

  • Philodemus' "On Anger" - General - Texts and Resources

    • Kalosyni
    • July 8, 2025 at 7:33 AM

    A few of last night's Zoom slides were on Philodemus' On Anger:

    Notes in first two slides were taken from the book: The Ethics of Philodemus, chapter 9 "Anger and the Desire for Revenge"

  • July 7, 2025 First Monday Zoom Discussion 8pm ET - Agenda & Topic of discussion

    • Kalosyni
    • July 7, 2025 at 4:38 PM

    Don I'm thinking about the difference between emotions and feelings, and came up with this:

    • Emotions are automatic, physiological responses to stimuli (the body's initial reaction)
    • Feelings are the conscious awareness of experienced emotions together with further mental interpretations (further thoughts in an attempt to make sense of our emotional reaction)

    Looking at that new list of words that you posted (in post 6)...and thinking about them (there's a lot of rabbit holes in these words :/).

  • Welcome Dlippman!

    • Kalosyni
    • July 7, 2025 at 4:20 PM

    dlippman Welcome to the forum! :)

  • July 7, 2025 First Monday Zoom Discussion 8pm ET - Agenda & Topic of discussion

    • Kalosyni
    • July 7, 2025 at 9:21 AM

    Don I looked at Brene Brown's "87 Emotions & Experiences" chart, and found it to be overly complicated, and would personally use different labels for things, and would classify things differently. But everyone finds things that resonate depending on their own framing.

    I personally would recommend sticking with a smaller number of words and focusing on levels of intensity rather than trying to find fancy words for things.

    I haven't yet looked into Lisa Feldman Barrett's system (will let you know after I do :saint:).

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    Daniel188 December 25, 2025 at 12:49 PM
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    Don December 25, 2025 at 10:03 AM
  • "But when we do not feel pain, we no longer need pleasure"

    Kalosyni December 25, 2025 at 10:01 AM
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    Cassius December 24, 2025 at 4:22 PM
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    Kalosyni December 23, 2025 at 3:08 PM
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    Don December 23, 2025 at 6:59 AM
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