Posts by Kalosyni

Quote from Godfrey

I would begin with natural or unnatural, and eliminate the unnatural desires. Then I would reason out whether the resultant pleasures are likely to outweigh any pains involved. This goes along with my thinking that the natural and unnecessary desires are the sweet spot of day to day choices and avoidances. I examine these in terms of both the desires and the potential pleasures/pains, in no particular order.

I'm not sure if the labels of "natural, necessary, unnecessary, unnatural" are workable for me. I like to use more words to explore things, and here is an example:

Step 1: I notice that I feel desire for something specific: __________(xyz).

Step 2: If I get that ____________ (xyz), will the result will be one of the following?

a) relief from pain (food relieves the pain of hunger, and rest relieves the pain of exertion/work, aspirin relieves the pain of a headache).

b) protection of long-term well-being of the body (warm clothing for winter, warm housing, exercise, healthful foods)".

c) sufficiency/means for acquiring and maintaining basic needs.

d) necessities that provide "good spirits" (such as friends, or other social activities such as playing an instrument or dancing, etc.) ...and enjoyment of mental experiences (learning, teaching, memory).

e) anything else that is an enjoyment of bodily sensations and which are free from painful outcomes.

Step 3: Is the thing I desire something that has "limits" or is it an "unlimited desire" (something that can't be fulfilled)? And does it have painful/stressful consequences?

-- the desires for great wealth, fame, or power are "unlimited" (and are difficult to aquire and come with stressful consequences)

-- the desire for high-fashion clothing or the perfect high-end house is "unlimited" (and these are difficult to aquire without great wealth)

-- the desire for a life filled with perfect endless romance is an "unlimited" desire (and is difficult to aquire and comes with stressful consequences)

-- the desire for eating tasty highly palatable foods all the time is an "unlimited" desire (difficult to fulfill and comes with painful consequences)

Hi Everyone, Coming up this next Sunday is our "Fourth Sunday Epicurean Philosophy Discussion" Via Zoom -- open to forum members. If you haven't previously attended a Sunday Zoom, let us know if you are interested (either here in this thread or by private message to Cassius) so we can get the link to you.

This month's discussion topic: "Pleasure, Atoms, and the Foundations of Epicurean Ethics" - presented by Cassius

This will be based upon sections of the David Sedley article, which you can read here.

Hope to see you there!

Happy Twentieth Everyone!

Here is a fascinating article:

The new science of death: ‘There’s something happening in the brain that makes no sense’

The long read: New research into the dying brain suggests the line between life and death may be less distinct than previously thought

www.theguardian.com

Quote

At the very least, Patient One’s brain activity – and the activity in the dying brain of another patient Borjigin studied, a 77-year-old woman known as Patient Three – seems to close the door on the argument that the brain always and nearly immediately ceases to function in a coherent manner in the moments after clinical death. “The brain, contrary to everybody’s belief, is actually super active during cardiac arrest,” Borjigin said. Death may be far more alive than we ever thought possible.

The following page contains a long explanation by the author Thomas Nail (Professor of Philosophy at the University of Denver) of his ideas regarding Lucretius, including his stance that Lucretius never used the word "atoms".

Returning to Lucretius

Why Return to Lucretius? I think a new Lucretius is coming into view today. Every period in Western history since Lucretius has returned to him like bees…

philosophy-of-movement.com

I've read about 2/3 of this and there is a lot to unpack. Since we are currently studying Lucretius at the weekly Sunday Zoom, then this may be of interest.

Quote

1. First Counter-Thesis: “Lucretius was not an Atomist”

The difference between Lucretius and the earlier Greek atomists is precisely that—the atom. For Leucippus, Democritus, and Epicurus atoms are always in motion, but the atom itself remains fundamentally unchanged, indivisible, and thus internally static—even as it moves. Instead of positing discrete atoms as ontologically primary as both ancient Greek and later modern theories do, one of Lucretius’ greatest novelties was to posit the movement or flow of matter as primary. I think Lucretius did not simply “translate Epicurus;” he transformed him.

For example, although Lucretius could have easily Latinized the Greek word atomos as atomus [smallest particle], as Cicero did, he intentionally did not, nor did he use the Latin word particula or particle to describe matter. The English translations of “atom,” “particle,” and others have all been added to the text based on a certain historical interpretation of it. The idea that Lucretius subscribed to a world of discrete particles called atoms is therefore both a projection of Epicureanism and a retroaction of modern scientific theories of mechanism onto De Rerum Natura. As such, Lucretitus’ writings have been crushed by the weight of his past and future at the same time.

I just found this interesting article on how important exercise is, and that it is as effective as pharmacological threatments or psychological treatments. And it also helps with neuroplasticity:

Quote

"We found that exercise was as effective as pharmacological treatments or psychological therapies as well," says Andrew Clegg, a professor at the University of Lancashire in the U.K.

The findings are not a surprise to psychiatrist Dr. Stephen Mateka, medical director of psychiatry at Inspira Health. "This new Cochrane review reinforces the evidence that exercise is one of the most evidence-based tools for improving mood," says Mateka.

He explains how it mirrors some of the effects of medication. "Exercise can help improve neurotransmitter function, like serotonin as well as dopamine and endorphins. So there is certainly overlap between exercise and how antidepressants offer relief," Mateka says.

You can read the full article here.

Quote from Cassius

Quote from Bryan

On a side note, I love young Epicurus in a spacesuit -- and it really is a fully appropriate image. THANK YOU!!!

It's certainly not the only way - but it is one way - to emphasize that Epicurean philosophy applies to everyone, that each of us gets old and eventually dies, and that we want the pleasure while we are alive of thinking that we are helping those who will come thereafter.

We write wills and do many other things to make sure that happens:

Fr. 3 ...

I am of the few who would say that Epicurus would not engage in spaceflight.

Just for fun I asked Google AI: In 2026, what are the odds that an astronaut will die?

Google response:

There's no precise "odds" for an astronaut death in 2026, but risks are managed with strict safety standards (like NASA's 1 in 270 crew loss target) against known dangers like radiation, while new threats like space debris increase overall risk, though specific mission fatality is unpredictable. While overall spaceflight is safer now, risks remain significant, with factors like space junk and radiation increasing long-term health concerns and potential mission dangers as exploration expands.

Key Factors Influencing Risk

• Space Debris: A growing concern, with studies predicting increased chances of debris falling through busy airspace, posing indirect risks, notes K8 News.
• Space Radiation: A major long-term health hazard, increasing risks for cancer and other issues, especially for deep space missions, according to NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS) and NIH.
• Health Impacts: Zero gravity weakens bones and muscles, potentially leading to kidney stones, notes PIX11.

Safety Measures & Targets

• NASA's Commercial Crew Program: Aims for a 1 in 270 loss-of-crew figure, a standard met by SpaceX and Boeing, says SpaceNews and Business Insider.
• NASA's General Standard: Limits astronaut exposure to a 3% risk of death from radiation, according to NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).

Overall Perspective

• Spaceflight has become safer over time, but remains inherently risky, with past missions having higher statistical risks, reports NBC News.
• While specific odds for 2026 aren't calculable, increased space activity and planned deep space missions mean constant risk assessment, with potential for unforeseen incidents, according to Space.

** 1 in 270 - is per mission

Quote from Eikadistes

One such physical reality in post-Alexandrian Greece was the exchange of foreign forms of piety, and the need to explain the existence of these foreign, yet recognizably spiritual institutions. Surely something natural exists at the source of this seemingly-universal sense of piety.

Epíkouros calls this the divine nature. (Whether or not that corresponds with theoretical super-humans is up to you, but at least this much is true: a natural phenomena is responsible for the evolution of religion). Philódēmos records this as something like visions during dreams.

Hi Everyone! Here are some reflections on the past year -- EpicureanFriends 2025 Year in Review, highlighting forum events and projects, and member contributions:

• The Lucretius Today Podcast, co-hosted by Cassius and Joshua, started the year off with episodes on key concepts in Epicurean philosophy. Then at the beginning of March the podcast team started a new series of episodes reviewing Cicero's Tusculan Disputations from an Epicurean perspective. Cassius and Joshua make quite the team, with their complimentary contributions rounding out the weekly insights into Epicurus and his philosophy. And we are especially grateful to have Joshua as part of the podcast, both because he is a wonderful and enjoyable human being to know, and because of his dedication, enthusiasm, and his many insightful contributions to the study of Epicurus.
• Throughout the year we continued our Wednesday Night Zoom for level three participants focused on the study of Usener's Epicurea, based on translation and research conducted by  Bryan. Bryan's PDF is one of the best sources available for studying Usener's collected quotations, which Usener himself prepared in Greek and Latin. The Wednesday night Usener study Zoom group began back in April 2024, and we continue with our gratitude and enjoyment for all the fascinating new details Bryan presents, as well as our great appreciation for his calm and centered presence that he brings to our meetings. And gratitude to our dedicated Wednesday night attendees -- you bring both the reason and the fun!
• In May of 2025 we began a new weekly afternoon (EST) Sunday Zoom targeted to make it easier for friends in Europe to attend. We began with a review of basic topics from our forum FAQ, and then in November started a study of Lucretius' De Rerum Natura.
• Late in the year we replaced our "First Monday" Zoom with a special Fourth Sunday Zoom to which we invited more recent forum participants. The Fourth Sunday Zoom will focus on topics of special interest to modern Epicurean living.
• We also continued our monthly Twentieth Commemoration Zoom to continue the tradition established by Epicurus, as a time for established members to commemorate together and reconnect.
• Over this past year our founding member ElliPensa deserves great credit for being a dedicated voice for Epicurean philosophy from Epicurus' own homeland. Elli's native language is Greek and she continues to produce cutting-edge articles on hot-topic issues. She is a valuable Epicurean resource, as well as a wonderful person! In 2025 she contributed a large number of articles and her most recent article: The Epic of Epicurus - Ithaca and the Garden: Dialectic and the Canon talks about the life of Epicurus and the paradigm change that he brought into the world - a joy to read for both new and longtime students of Epicurus.
• Over the past year our member @TauPhi deserves special credit both for his regular contributions and also for his work on preparing PDFs of: 1) Diogenes Laertius' Book Ten, featuring parallel side-by-side English translations, and 2) Bernier's version of three essays on Happiness, Virtue, and Liberty from the work of Gassendi. TauPhi always presents deep and challenging ideas with a smile. He is an all-around great guy who helps keep us on our toes during our weekly meetings with his unflappable honesty and kindness.
• Over the past year @Eikadistes has contributed a number of articles on new content from an original and unexpected vantage point on the philosophy of Epicurus. (see also post 4 below by Cassius).
• And also gratitude for Donwho brings enthusiasm and joy to every meeting he attends, and continues to be a great help and resource for analysis on Greek text, and also his video which is a very important resource (Bread And Water - Debunking The Idea Of Epicurean Asceticism). And also Martin who is a great resource on physics (as shown by his recent contribution to the physics article from one of our new participants). And also Godfrey for his help in the moderation discussions -- So grateful to all of you on the EpicureanFriends moderation team!
• And also a huge shout-out to all our regular forum members not mentioned here who have contributed to this website through posts and participation in our Zoom meetings! - It shows how coming together we can build great things while having lots of fun!

In the past we've waited until the annual 20th (January 20th) to talk about the past year, but this year I thought it might be nice to get a head start, here and now, and for the full forum. I've compiled the above list (with some help from Cassius) hoping to highlight what we have done both together and individually.

And now, also, I want to make a shout-out of gratitude to Cassius for everything he has done and continues to do as the Admin (and founder) here on the EpicureanFriends forum. I especially want to say how much I appreciate his warm encouragement, down-to-earth guidance, and detailed presentation of the philosophy of Epicurus, in all of our weekly Zoom meetings - so thank you Cassius!

Having covered this here, that means for our January 20th Zoom, we will have more time in that meeting to talk about future developments for the year 2026...and it will also be Epicurus' Annual Birthday Celebration!

An excerpt from an article on the history of New Year's resolutions:

Quote

Alexis McCrossen, a history professor at Southern Methodist University whose research focuses on New Year's observances, says it was ancient Romans who first associated Jan. 1 with New Year's resolutions.

They celebrated the start of January by giving offerings to the month's namesake, Janus — the two-faced god of beginnings and endings — and auspicious gifts (like twigs from sacred trees) to their loved ones.

"It was a day to make promises and offerings," McCrossen says. "I think that's the origin of our New Year's resolution, because a resolution is a kind of promise."

https://www.npr.org/2025/12/31/nx-s1-5649767/new-years-resolutions-history

Welcome to the forum @claire46 

You might like this basic introductory video by Cassius:

There are a number of differences between Epicureanism and Stoicism, and so you will want to check out this chart made by Cassius on the differences between Epicurean philosophy and Stoic philosophy:

A Comparison Chart on “The Goal of Life” – NewEpicurean

Happy New Year!

Some of us depending on where we live have already crossed into the new year, and others of us will soon.

This thread is for all to use to send out greetings for the new year!

Also, you are welcome to share any personal resolutions or ideas for how you want to make 2026 a great year...and also Epicurean thoughts too!

Happy New Year!

Welcome to the forum Hyakinthos !

It was a good meeting back on Sunday, and one question came up for me afterward, which is regarding the idea of security...can we accurately judge if we are living a life that is safe or not, and whether our basic need for security is being met?

Epicurus said that the first quick, easy, and commonly used understanding regarding a thing (or a word) is the best one to use (I can't remember the exact words or where that is). But also seems important to look at actual situations.

For our current time, it almost becomes about statistics (or being in the wrong place at the wrong time) - we are generally safe, but not totally safe (and it may depend on where one lives). With mass shootings happening, It seems these days if you want kids to "be safer", then homeschooling and attending an online college might help.

According to the article by Austin, we need (and have a natural and necessary need) to feel safe from being violently killed by others and this can't be done through reasoning because it isn't caused by irrational ideas. It can only be done "politically" meaning through creating laws and ways to make society safe.

Quote from DaveT

So, rather than “just one more bite,” perhaps just one bite (or what the heck—two or three) can be the answer while enjoying friendship and family during the holidays.

Somehow, I think that I have developed what is called a "sweet tooth", and which I notice that the more "goodies" that I eat the more that I crave. (I've bought/made a certain amount of Christmas goodies this year, perhaps a bit too many).

When I clean up my diet by eating whole foods rather than processed (cutting out bread, desserts, snacks) then the sweet tooth cravings actually easily subside and I greatly enjoy eating fruits and vegetables. And not having the "goodies" in my house helps with decreasing cravings. This is just my personal experience, and everyone is different.

Wishing Everyone a Merry Christmas!

I think it is important here in this forum to speak up when seeing articles written which say or imply that "Epicurus said to do XYZ" when there isn't speciic textual evidence.

Quote from Kalosyni

Now, here is where this seems to be a phrase that seems to be a kind of remedy -- when we are genuinely hungry we will feel pain, and when we no longer feel that pain from hunger then we no longer need the pleasure of eating.

I think that this remedy is only for those who need it, and also worth remembering that the letter mentions that it is not the pleasures of the profligates that are being referred to as pleasures.

Also, we can anticipate that the pleasures of eating, although transitory, they are reoccuring and "easy to get".

Some thoughts on a practical application of the phrase: "...but when we do not feel pain, we no longer need pleasure."

The following is Bailey translation:

[128] "The right understanding of these facts enables us to refer all choice and avoidance to the health of the body and (the soul’s) freedom from disturbance, since this is the aim of the life of blessedness. For it is to obtain this end that we always act, namely, to avoid pain and fear. And when this is once secured for us, all the tempest of the soul is dispersed, since the living creature has not to wander as though in search of something that is missing, and to look for some other thing by which he can fulfill the good of the soul and the good of the body. For it is then that we have need of pleasure, when we feel pain owing to the absence of pleasure; (but when we do not feel pain), we no longer need pleasure."

I've been thinking about how the ending of this paragraph pertains to eating food. When I was a kid and teen, and also in my 20's, food to me was very "unimportant". Growing up my family rarely went out to restuarants, and my mom often did not use spices or salt in her cooking, and there were very few snacks kept on hand. In my 20's living on my own, I cooked very simple food and sometimes skipped lunch just because I was too busy. Then approx. in my early 30's I started shopping at Trader Joe's (lived in California at that time)... and this was for me a beginning of a California "foodie" culture (healthy, sometimes organic, but also special cheese and specialty snacks.) And I think as time went on the American culture also really amped-up the concept of "food enjoyment" through various products and advertizing for restuarants.

Now what do you do when when the quanties of food available are so great, and eating becomes a desire for experiencing various tasty things... "just one more bite" or "just one more taste of this or that"...and suddenly you are carrying around 10 extra pounds of "love-handles" or a "muffin-top" belly that you can't seem to get rid of (and eating too much brings on a bloated feeling or lethargy) -- all of which is not conducive to living well and most pleasantly.

Now, here is where this seems to be a phrase that seems to be a kind of remedy -- when we are genuinely hungry we will feel pain, and when we no longer feel that pain from hunger then we no longer need the pleasure of eating.

Quote from Patrikios

In "Choosing to Remember and to Forget," Hiram Crespo speaks of nuktos meleta, the evening practice that Epicurus himself prescribed.

A word of caution here, that the writings by Hiram that are referred to in the above post can be characterized as unique interpretations of Epicurean philosophy that: at times incorporate elements and ideas from external sources -- and at times are speculative in nature (do not come from direct textual evidence).

Quote from Patrikios

Did we accomplish what we set out to do? Did we treat others with the kindness and fairness we expect for ourselves? Where did we fall short, and what might we do differently tomorrow to move closer to ataraxia?

If we look directly at the Letter to Menoeceus we see at the end of the letter this paragraph:

"Meditate therefore on these things and things akin to them night and day by yourself; and with a companion like to yourself, and never shall you be disturbed waking or asleep, but you shall live like a god among men. For a man who lives among immortal blessings is not like unto a mortal being."

It says that the time to practice is "night and day" so this instead refers to doing it all the time (not just at night). And we see no mention of striving for a "perfect" ataraxia (by analysis of how we might have fallen short). The Letter to Menoeceus doesn't mention "treating others with kindness and fairness", but it does talk about dealing with the fear of death and also making good choices and avoidances.

So the best way to determine what Epicurus taught is to read the ancient extant texts, and I highly recommend doing so.