Posts by Don
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Quote from Nikolsky
If Epicurus did not divide pleasures into kinetic and static,
I still think Epicurus (and Metrodorus and Philodemus) did use those categories; however, I think much ado has been made of them by later commentators.
But that's a conversation for another thread
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The sage will found a school, but not in a way that attracts a crowd around themselves or plays to the mob.
I don't know if this is a repeat of info, but I just discovered today that this could be a response (or a jab) at Theophrastus, head of Aristotle's school, who regularly spoke to thousands of pupils:
Quote from Diogenes Laertius 5.2.37About 2000 pupils used to attend his lectures. In a letter to Phanias the Peripatetic, among other topics, he speaks of a tribunal as follows2: "To get a public or even a select circle such as one desires is not easy. If an author reads his work, he must re-write it. Always to shirk revision and ignore criticism is a course which the present generation of pupils will no longer tolerate." And in this letter he has called some one "pedant."
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Reading through the Routledge chapter and it strikes me that when they mention enargeias, this appears to be a related word to the one that Epicurus used to describe our perception of the gods in the letter to Menoikeus:
Gods exist, and the knowledge of them is manifest to the mind's eye (ἐναργὴς enargēs).
Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, ε , ἐναπο-στέγω , ἐναργ-ής
Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, ε , ἐναπο-στέγω , ἐνάργ-εια
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I haven't had a chance to read the paper/chapter yet (on the to-do list!), but it's one interpretation of the "true" is that sense impressions originate with "real" truly existing objects and so we can rely on our senses that there IS indeed a real, external world that exists independently of us? Were there schools in ancient Greece that taught we couldn't be sure if this?
Literally, blue skying it here.
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My take, from an ancient Epicurean perspective, would be that the senses receive the films of the images onto the sense organs as a die casts a piece of metal. The error arises when the mind interprets (almost immediately or simultaneously) the impression made by the die.
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Here is DeWitt's article focusing on the subject. I am having trouble getting the Greek word in the summary typed in - if any moderator has the ability to fix that in the description (where I have placed the ________) please do.
Norman DeWitt - "Epicurus - All Sensations Are True"
DeWitt's interpretation of the "all sensations are true" controversy.
Here it is in plain text for you to copy:
αληθής
Also
Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, ἀληθ-ής
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All we have from the Letter to the philosophers of Mytilene that Dewitt references in that "satire" section:
Epicurus: Fragments - translation
[ U113 ]
Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Philosophers, X.8: Furthermore, Epicurus himself in his letters says of Nausiphanes: "This so maddened him that he abused me and called me a didaskalon." {= "pedagogue," a trite, pedantic teacher} Epicurus used to call Nausiphanes a pleumonon. {= "jellyfish," imputing obtuseness and insensibility}
U114 ]
Sextus Empiricus, Against the Professors, I.3: Epicurus, then, though he had been one of this man’s disciples, did his best to deny the fact in order that he might be thought to be a self-taught and original philosopher, and tried hard to blot out the reputation of Nausiphanes, and became a violent opponent of the Arts and Sciences wherein Nausiphanes prided himself. Thus, in his Letter to the Philosophers of Mytilene, Epicurus says, "I quite suppose that ‘the bellowers’ will fancy that I am even a disciple of ‘the jellyfish’ having sat under him in the company of some crapulous striplings;" whereby he calls Nausiphanes a "jellyfish" as being without sense. And again, after proceeding further and abusing the man at length, he hints at his proficiency in Arts and Sciences when he says – "In fact he was a sorry fellow and exercised himself on matters which cannot possibly lead to wisdom," alluding thereby to Arts and Sciences.
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My question with DeWitt is: Where is he getting this? How can he make those broad statements when we don't even have the texts?
DeWitt did a lot of "historical fiction" writing on the flimsiest (or non-existent!) of evidence... In my opinion.
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About halfway through and had a thought about being open to other ideas, etc. At least the Epicureans didn't walk themselves off from other philosophers' ideas. The number of books they wrote against other schools show that they definitely engaged with other ideas. To counter them and argue against them, of course; but they were engaged in the marketplace of ideas.
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so hard to know what to say.
Philosophers Rorschach Test
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I was completely unaware of this mosaic. Thanks, Joshua , for posting it.
That guy in the gold-colored cloak and a "crown?" on the left is quite striking. Are there any philosophers that fit that kind of description?
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That guy seated on the left reminds me of Metrodorus from Autun.
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I found this interesting in one of the papers referenced in the Wikipedia article:
QuoteAthens is visible in the upper right background, as well as what might be the Dipylon Gate with its bronze amphorae on top, which was not far from the academy.
The Garden was supposed to be situated near the Dipylon Gate just outside the walls of the city. Plus, those boots on the statue and the shoes on the mosaic person sitting to the right look s lot alike.
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This is excellent, Don! Thank you for taking the time to organize this information.
Thank you, @Nate , for your contribution, enthusiasm, and encouragement on this topic!
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It refers to this story:
Titus Manlius Imperiosus Torquatus - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.orgQuoteAs a young military tribune, he defeated a giant Gaul in single combat in one of the most famous duels of the Republic, which earned him the cognomen Torquatus after the torc he took from the Gaul's body....
In 361 BC, Titus Manlius fought in the army of Titus Quinctius Poenus Capitolinus Crispinus against the Gauls during the Battle of the Anio River. When a Gaul of enormous size and strength challenged the Romans to single combat, Manlius accepted the challenge with the approval of Poenus after the rest of the army had held back from responding for a long period of time. Despite being physically inferior, he killed the Gaul with blows to the belly and groin, after which he stripped the corpse of a torc and placed it around his own neck. From this, he gained the agnomen Torquatus, a title that was passed down also to his descendants.
A torc/torque is a heavy necklace worn by the Celtic tribes. Torque -- hence Torquatus.
Torc - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.orgQuoteBecause (Titus Manlius) always wore (the torque he took from the Gaul), he received the nickname Torquatus (the one who wears a torc),[23] and it was adopted by his family.
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Okay, as a Christmas present to the forum, I've uploaded the "final" version of my 13-page paper presenting the reasons to accept that Epicurus was, in fact, born on the 20th day of the month of Gamelion:
Epicurus’s Birthday: The 7th, 10th, or 20th of Gamelion - Mystery Solved
This paper outlines the reasons to accept that Epicurus was born on the 20th day of the month of Gamelion.
Ready for download. Hope you enjoy.
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'Cosmos' in this meaning is almost a direct antonym to 'chaos', which I find interesting
Agreed. It literally means "order" and even shows up in the etymology of " cosmetics."
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Don has made reference to the use of the word παν (all, or even, "the all") as a word used by Epicurus. Is cosmos used as well?
Yes. He uses κόσμος kosmos/cosmos in the letter to Herodotus. Cosmoi/ cosmoses(?) are the world systems; The All is the whole collection of kosmoi.
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