Posts by Godfrey

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It doesn't matter as long as I accept a non-supernatural explanation but don't get hung up on the "right" answer. That doesn't appeal to me. I personally enjoy contemplating this kind of thing, reading about theories, having my brain twisted in a pretzel by quantum physics, string theory, black holes, etc. I don't fear these phenomena. So does that lack of fear matter here?

Don, this is a really short reply to a question that deserves more, but I think this statement of yours (if I'm reading it right) is a good illustration of not getting hung up on the "right" answer. Is string theory absolutely correct? Are multiverses fact? These are ideas of theoretical physics and they may or may not be correct; they haven't yet been proven to be true or false. But are you going to study these until you can prove their correctness? If not, then you're not getting hung up on the right answer. If you enjoy the mental gymnastics involved in contemplating these ideas (I do, until I don't) there's nothing anti-Epicurean about that until it starts to drive you batty.

Proven and observable science is another matter entirely. But my take is that Epicurus was dealing with theorizing, as he didn't have the technology to verify many of his conclusions. So rather than spend his life trying to prove that, say, lightning is caused by x but not y or z, he was satisfied that any of x, y or z could be proven correct. Since he worked out all of these from logic based on observation, consistent with his overall theory (atoms and void), it wouldn't matter which might turn out to be correct. When it came to his "big picture" theories I wouldn't expect him to be so loosey-goosey.

For us, I think it comes down to the distinction between experimental and theoretical physics. Experimental physics is verifiable and doesn't typically allow for multiple explanations, while theoretical physics deals with currently unverifiable ideas. Theoretical physics is where you can play with multiple explanations but not get hung up on the "right" answer.

That turned out rather verbose for a "really short reply"!

In my Zen days I was quite aware of the difference between "pain" and "suffering" as I was dealing with back pain. There was the sensation in the nerves, sometimes quite intense, (pain) and the cringing in anticipation of that pain or the tensing up in response to the pain (suffering). The "suffering" made the "pain" much greater; reducing the "suffering" helped in finding physical relaxation which in turn reduced the pain.

Regarding the idea in the article that we need to embrace pain as a friend: on the more subtle end of the scale, at least for myself, the tendency is to be totally ignorant of pain. I think this is what is mis-perceived as the mythical "neutral zone." Being aware of this low grade pain is, to me, a key skill for an Epicurean in that it can prevent much future, greater pain. You could even call it a life hack if you are so inclined.

Maybe "prudent living in an atomic universe" or "understanding pleasure in an atomic universe" or something along those lines....

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xp…8943-story.html

Excellent and pertinent article SamJ!

And the Epicurean Canon gives us the tools to know ourselves, which in a nutshell is what I was describing above. It's not just about square towers and bent oars!

SamJ, regarding the atomic universe.... Since everything is material and there is no supernatural or afterlife, this should put all of our focus on our lived life. This has given me an understanding that the only meaning to my life is that which I choose, and that this choosing is a process of being open and attentive to my desires as well as to my sensations, unconscious knowledge, and pleasures and pains. This choosing is an intuitive and hard to describe process, and of course it's different for everybody so it may not even be useful to try to describe it. But my opinion is that working with this process is far more important than any life hack, unless you want to think of it as a life hack. At any rate, this is giving me more confidence in my choices and, as a natural consequence, more focus in my daily activities.

Another implication of the atomic universe is that I find that I have a greater sense of wonder after I've been giving "the nature of things" an extended bit of thought.

We had a thread on this a while back:

Practical Daily Pleasure-- Creating Pleasurable Habits

Lately, I'm finding that I don't think much about seeking particular pleasures. Instead I think about the atomic universe and its implications, and that seems to motivate me to focus on a particular task, either for a day or for multiple days. Interestingly, the tasks that I choose in this manner keep turning out to be pleasurable even if I was originally envisioning them as onerous.

So I've belatedly done my due diligence, and the video is a fascinating stroll through the ancient town of Herculaneum, BUT with nary a peep about the Villa of the Papyri. There's no narration but there are captions describing many of the spaces. It's a walk through the streets, the baths, some shops and some houses. Worth a watch, just be forewarned that there's nothing about Epicurus, the scrolls or the Villa.

This virtual tour of the tomb of Ramesses VI turned up in my feed:

Pharaoh Ramesses VI Tomb

It's pretty impressive, and got me wondering if there are any such things for Epicurean sites.

Here is one for Herculaneum:

Herculaneum Walking Tour

It's a YouTube video of around 90 minutes, with ads. I haven't watched it in it's entirety yet, but it's basically a guided tour of the site. Personally I prefer the 3D reconstructions as you can navigate around as you like, but this type is perhaps more educational. Anyway, if anyone is tired of Netflix this might be a pleasant diversion.

Not sure when you added the edit Cassius, but SVG is a vector. I opened it in LibreOffice Draw and it looks quite crisp. If you need to convert it to AI for Illustrator, there are free online converters; I don't use Illustrator so I don't know if it will import SVG files. Frankly I've never heard of an SVG file before so I don't know if you can work directly with that file or not.

Never heard of this site before! Here's somebody who does 3D modeling:

https://www.fiverr.com/matiikiv/sculp…r-moment-attack

Of course 3D is going to cost more than an avatar....

Things to think about regarding the graphic design: line drawing or tone? Classical or cartoon style? Collect different styles for different uses?

It might be easier to "cartoonify" a Classical drawing than to "classicize" a cartoon drawing.

It also looks like some of the outlines are quite thin when it comes to holding the piece together structurally. That's probably another adjustment the artist will have to make. It's quite a complicated project and, as you say Cassius, it would help to have some fairly simple but accurate graphics to work from. There are actually two design problems to solve: 1) the design of the portraits, and 2) designing the outlines, creases and shadows in a way that they will hold the cut material firmly together in one piece (or as few pieces as possible).

Elli here's the fruit of my efforts....

It might be that the things most useful to your graphist are these two jpgs showing the "floaters" in red. The images on the left are the meshes that were in the stl files that you attached; the images on the right are of curves that I created from the meshes. These images are in the attached zipped folders, along with conversions to ai and dwg. Each ai file has the meshes and the curves as shown in the jpgs. Each dwg file has the curves, scaled up to 35" (889 mm) in height.

Asklepios.zip

EPICURUS.zip

I don't use Illustrator or Draw either, so hopefully this helps. I included the dwg files as that's a format that I'm more familiar with for this use.

I hope this helps!

Hi Elli Elli, I'll see what I can do. I won't be at my computer for a few hours but at the very least I can indicate the floaters in the stl files and also show them on a jpg. Not sure if I can convert to AI or EPS so I'll look into that at that time.

I've prepped files for laser cutting, but never been involved with pricing or arranging for the work.

Looking at the Epicurus file (I'm using Rhino 6) I have a couple of comments:

- From my experience it's normal to provide a 2D file consisting of closed curves (linework). The material thickness is specified in the written order and so there is no need to model the thickness of the finished product. You can include notes as to thickness and material in the file if that's helpful.

- The thickness as shown in the model is much thicker than seems practical, if it was intended to be the actual thickness. But since I think that the file for cutting would be just curves, this doesn't matter; it's just a comment regarding the finished product.

- There are a few "floating" pieces in the model that aren't attached to any other part of the model. It seems that for a wall hanging that it would be best to extend these pieces to a nearby part of the overall piece, so that the final product is just one piece. Otherwise during installation one would have to figure out where these loose pieces go aqnd how to mount them.

As to Cassius' earlier objection to calling it "objective" reality, maybe "material" reality is more accurate.

According to EP as I understand it, this also allows for eidola (dreams, visions of the gods; also thoughts? Not sure about thoughts...) to be received by the senses. It seems like evaluative thinking would follow this sequence as well, with thoughts replacing sensations. I'm not sure what contemporary neuroscience has to say about that, though.

I typed παθη Latin translation into Google and got "passio." Passions distinguishes from sensations but has its own set of problems.

"Embodied cognition" is for me a very descriptive phrase for the prolepseis and perhaps for the entire Canon. But this apparently has woo woo connotations in some circles. Also if it can be used for both prolepseis and for the Canon then that isn't very helpful.

Sorry to say that I'm ignorant when it comes to ancient languages. Most of what I know I've learned from studying Epicurus.

Christian theology is also, I think, extremely challenging for many of us as it provokes an almost visceral reaction based on our prior interaction with it and its involvement with contemporary politics.

Joshua, your division into practical and theoretical is useful for considering Christian teachings as well. While the theory is for the most part fantastical, from time to time I find myself thinking about how religion in general is ubiquitous throughout history and how it must have practical benefits to its "practitioners" in order to be so sticky.

We could just use pathe (although auto-correct turned that into pathetic, which could be a problem). We frequently use ataraxia, which at times involves discussion as to what exactly that means. Pathe emphasizes the original idea, and might promote discussion in a useful way as to what exactly that means. This might be more useful than trying to find an English word that doesn't quite fit.

Having said that, another word that comes to mind is "guide." (There are two guides, pleasure and pain.) This emphasizes the functional aspect of the pathe and is a good example of an English word that doesn't quite fit.

Similarly with prolepsis: anticipations and preconceptions don't quite fit and we all have a favorite one of these that we use. Once a person understands the basic ideas, that interchangeability is fine.