Posts by Eikadistes

I've consolidated all of my sources here and formatted the names into an ascending list.

At this point, I say no, it does not have something to teach us about preconceptions. I think it's like trying to learn about the physics of stars by observing Van Gogh's painting Starry Night. No matter how advanced or well-defined our models, they are still (for now) just models and analogies.

Maybe it does, insofar as it can teach us what a preconception is not.

As Diogénēs describes of a preconception, it is a "memory of the appearances from abroad", so being able to experience/process sensation, as I read it, is a necessary precursor to a preconception.

In an Epicurean sense, I don't think it's accurate to say that LLM's can have "preconceptions" because they are prone to error. Rather, it looks to me like they are being programmed with "opinions", some of which are true ... but they are not, themselves, standards of truth. They lack the standard of sensation, so they're at the whim of their programmers' memories.

We'll need to get to the point where an android organically dreams of sheep.

If I were on Picard's Enterprise-D, I would, personally, trust Data, but not the ship's computer, even if 99% of their knowledge-base were shared. If I'm going to risk losing my arm, I'm not going to take advice from an armless thing. Give that thing an arm to lose, and then see how it thinks. Likewise, I'll trust Data's description of the texture of kitten fur before the computer's, or the flavor of Picard's tea (probably bitter Earl Grey), over anything else for which it lacks its own sensory organs.

Quote from Titus

I just wanted to share my thoughts on a topic that has been on my mind for a long time.

Really cool thought, though! It's at least worth the thought experiment.

Perhaps the Eureka! moment of a life-changing discovery is more like an intellectual orgasm.

Or maybe it's like getting "abducted by aliens". If you genuinely believe you gained new perspective, you experience both (1) the excitement of certainty, and (2) the fear of social ridicule.

Quote from Kalosyni

"How much pain to endure for the sake of friendship" (and after moving to a new city (new area) and having to start over with making friends, and the insistence on finding "like-minded" friends, quite a task for my own situation).

Epíkouros and Philódēmos provide us with solid historical instances of this situation. Epíkouros became (as I understand) unwelcome in Mytilene, as Philódemos became unwelcome in Sicily. Open as they were, sometimes, it's just not he right place and the right time. I've been reflecting on their example: each time, they found somewhere better, and that next place became their home.

I grew up in the Rust Belt, and moved to the Dixie Confederacy my freshman year of high school. It sucked. It was like night and day: the unexpected religiosity of teenagers, the strange hyper-obedience toward authority figures, the complete lack of Jewish kids, my friends' parents scolding me when I addressed them by their familiar name ... I was raised as a Christmas-and-Easter Methodist, and became an atheist after I realized that even the Southern Catholics are evangelical.

My first real girlfriend was devoutly Catholic, broke up with me Saturday Mass when she realized I wasn't down with the genuflections and ... one month later, I get institutionalized for mental health issues. It's still crazy to me that the only person who didn't believe in ghosts was crazy.

That was also the year I found Philosophy. It was no coincidence.

I learned that I cannot share my heart with a person who genuinely believes that I am fundamentally, emotionally empty, or spiritually sick in some way. Likewise ... to be fair ... why would someone who believes in ghosts share their life with someone who thinks that people who believe in ghosts are delusional. It goes both ways, I guess. That's just cohabitation.

Quote from Kalosyni

How many of you find that your only friend is your spouse...or that the friends you have are lacking in depth (or lacking in "like-minded-ness")......or the unlimited (unparalleled) enjoyment of staying at home seems better than the effort of seeking new friends...?

I dated this other girl in high school that I really liked, until the words "Bush rally" left her mouth, and my interest vanished like a fart in the wind. I've (totally pretentiously and judgmental, to be frank) cut people out for thinking they were stupid for personal beliefs. (Given what I wrote in paragraph three, I'm sure you can understand how I ended up with that attitude). So, when I met my wife, who rejected religious practice, supernatural belief, mysticism, and spirituality in general, I found the only person I've really ever come across who's as comfortably bleak as I am.

My best friends in life aren't Epicureans, but are well-read. I share a certain fascination with psychedelic experiences with them; one's an existentialist, another wouldn't put a word on it, but lives amongst ancient ideas; all of them think Christianity is bullshit and The Man is bogus.

That's ultimately why I'm here. I read the Swerve about 13 years ago while wondering how I got stuck with bozo roommates, thinking, "No shit? I can talk about Plato, Hegel, Kant, Sartre for hours ... why don't I know about this guy?" I found the Epicurean Philosophy Facebook forum about 11 years ago, and developed online contacts from there, and began dedicated study. It is refreshing to be able to speak my mind about all of the Christian nonsense I mentioned above knowing full well that no one here is going to feel threatened, or get defensive, because no one here has sympathy for it.

The Kathegemones reinforce to me that your social base needs to be compatible with your principles and your means of seeking mental health. That's what I've found. You can't share your life with someone who doesn't respect your beliefs. We can have acquaintances, and colleagues, and neighbors who agree to disagree, but in your deepest circles, for me, you've gotta be on the same page. Otherwise, every conversation over cohabitation and parenting becomes a Congressional debate, and teams develop like an ideological proxy war for opposing sides.

Philódēmos was an ingenius person, and incredibly friendly, and well-received. But that wasn't enough for the Sicilians he met. They wouldn't accept his philosophy, and, when things got tough, they threw him, the outsider, under the bus, and blamed their misfortune on his Otherness. (I wonder if something similar may have happened with Epíkouros in Mytilene?) He had better things to do, and better people to meet, and within a few years, he was hanging with Caesar's crew. Because he pressed on, generations of friends learned the true philosophy. It was equally important that they never gave up when ... what'd Paul Simon say ... "when friends just can't be found."

Quote from Kalosyni

or.....you have found your "tribe"?

I think we're constantly building and re-building each of our own tribes. Epíkouros branded an official tribe to which we are all welcome, so, in a formal sense, I consider that my tribe. It certainly makes ice-breakers easier, and allows us to skip a few steps in the department of "Is it safe to be transparent around this person? (i.e. will they think I'm a heretic?)".

Quote from Cassius

The Epicurean texts don't describe "the best life" in any but very general mental and bodily terms, culminating in the description of 100% pleasure 0% pain, which we ought to recognize is the best terminology that by definition can be achieved.

Indeed! I read this earlier today by coincidence: "He (sc. Metrodorus) [writes] that, although he likes the idea that the [best] life is the one that is [accompanied by tranquillity], peace, and cares that cause minimal trouble, it does not seem that this goal is achieved at least in this way, namely, if we avoid all those things over which, if they were present, we would sometimes experience difficulties and distress. For in truth many things do cause some pain if they are present but disturb us more if they are absent. Thus, health does involve some care and effort for the body but causes unspeakably more distress when it is absent" (Philódēmos, On Property Management, Col. 12-13)

Later (of interest) he adds, "one must not avoid all things that, if they are present, may cause all kinds of troubles, concerns, and worries. On the contrary, [one must accept] some things, among which is in fact wealth, that are less of a burden when they are present" (Ibid., Col. 13)

Quote from Don

Quote from kochiekoch

Epicurus beer!!!

Epi-Coors-us?

Funny you should mention it...

Quote from Don

Quote from Cassius

"Trust" or "Faith" implies an object which we are trusting or having faith in. As general term in an Epicurean context, what would be that object?

Nature as in "the way things are."

I'd also add, the Canon. We trust in the reliability and consistency of our senses, which reveal Nature, just as we reject scriptural inerrancy and its self-described revelations as a criterion of knowledge.

This is where there's a certain balance in one's choice of translation.

There will never be an absolutely "true" translation, because any receiver of a text is receiving that text through the filter of their own linguistic, cultural, generational, and academic contexts. Granted, there are definitely plenty of "false" interpretations ... but others are good, and some are better.

I present Epicurean pístis as "faith" to Christians to challenge their pre-existing assumption about the nature of "faith". With other Epicureans, we tend to avoid religious jargon and speak frankly, so "faith" is a much less helpful term. To those unfamiliar, "faith" might be a confusing translation.

Just an etymological note, the word used throughout the New Testament for "faith" (πίστις or pístis) is also used by Epíkouros throughout his Epistles, and once in the Key Doctrines:

1. Epistle to Herodotos 63:

“Then it is necessary that those [who are] comprehending [all of this] are [always] referring to the sensations and [the faculty of] feeling — for the firmest faith will thus be established — seeing that the soul exists through a finely-grained body [that is] spreading [throughout] an amalgamation [of flesh].”

2. Epistle to Pythokles 85:

“So then, the first goal of knowledge about the meteoric, either [to] speak in conjunction [with facts] or to independently practice [science], is nothing else than tranquility and firm faith, just as in the case of the rest [of our investigations].”

3. Key Doctrine 40:

“Those who keep the means to be prepared enjoy the most confidence out of coexisting with other people, in this way also those who live pleasantly among one another keep steadfast faith, and engender the fullest intimacy so as not to mourn lamentably for those who died before their time had come.” (10.154)

Quote from Bryan

This is excellent -- great idea to have each one link to the specific papyri.info page!

P.Herc. 908 may actually be by Demetrius Lacon. The content is interesting -- the topic is on sex, and it is very medical/gynecological (rather than moral/ethical).

Thanks! Let me know if you see anything in need of revision. The site does host some information that seems to conflict, especially between Latin and Greek translations (where they are).

I've finished updating the list of P.Herc. fragments.

I've been meaning to do this for a while, but I've organized the Herculaneum scrolls by number, and linked each one with the fragment that is hosted online in ancient Greek.

I'm still working on Philódēmos. Most of the scrolls are his.

Quote from Bryan

I would be very grateful for any information in regard to finding Giovanni Indelli and Voula Tsouna's treatment of Philodemus' On Choices and Avoidances, published by Bibliopolis in 1995.

I found a free, digital copy living here at the moment.

I've also organized the translation from that text on twentiers.com.

I'm taking this guy's advice from The Matrix:

Raphael Raul with your visual perspective, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this subject? Assuming that the Renaissance painter Raphael included Epíkouros in "The School of Athens", which figure would you assume him to be? (You can find more context in previous posts).

History generally recognizes this as being Epíkouros:

Figure with Laurel Leaves.png

Many of us tend to think that's incorrect, given the option of this figure:

Cloaked Figure in Orange.png

Or perhaps the truth is something contrary to either of these positions.

I just wanted your perspective, given your latest artistic contribution.

Quote from Pacatus

beginning Google searches by typing “-ai” eliminates the AI overview feature.

Re-quoting this ^^^^ for emphasis.

I think there's a subtle, nautical metaphor Epíkouros encrypted here.

I'm looking at the active particle (in the dative singular) τῷ ἐκπίπτοντι (tõi ekpíptonti), which Bailey translates as "him who errs". The phrase is referring to "the one doing the ekpíptō-ing", or "the one falling out of...", as in "...out of a boat", for example, "being cast ashore".

With this in mind, consider the second part of the prepositional phrase διʼ ἀοριστίαν (di' aoristían) that Bailey translates as "through excess". The word ἀοριστίαν (aoristían) comes from ἀ- ("not") and οριστικός ("definite"), which is the root word from which we receive "horizon" and "horizontal".

So, "the one doing the ekpíptō-ing" is doing so διά (diá) "by way of", "on account of", or "due to" something being "indefinite" (for example, a boundary, limit, or horizon). If there aren't any lighthouses, and the captain views an indefinite horizon, the boat is likely to crash.

I think he's calling someone who can't "live simply" a trainwreck, or in this case, a "ship-wreck".

Quote from Kalosyni

beautiful ancient Greek woman

I've been noticing that AI seems to default to people with Northern European features, even when given direction otherwise. I'm just wondering, what is that Valkyrie doing in Greece?

This is another issue I see with AI: It has beauty standards, subjective beauty standards. Someone is setting those standards, or else, it's being fed data that begs it to arrive at that conclusion.

It was asked to generate a beautiful Greek woman, and it rendered a blonde. It's like ... jeez, AI, tell us your PornHub categories without telling us your PornHub categories.

Quote from Don

Google's AI summaries at the top of ALL my searches are intrusive and far and away useless the large majority of the time. I still use Google, but I'm rapidly being more likely to use other search engines for this exact reason.

I feel you 1,000%.

Even on the Starship Enterprise, I would still fact check the computer.

How can we ever know, unless we are the ones doing the knowing?

Quote from Matteng

One must be careful not to create a false dichotomy like virtue vs. pleasure.

No doubt!