Posts by Eikadistes

Quote from Don

Quote from Eikadistes

To the Comrades by Philódēmos

What made you decide on "Comrades"? My understanding is that there is no noun in the title, just ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΥΣ...

As far as I know, you are correct. I went with the suggestion from Giuseppe Casanova (1806) who sketched it. He suggests the word ἐταίρους (étaírous) or “Comrades”. From this, I see other authors (who like re-naming everything in Latin) using “contubernales” (meaning “tent-mates” or “comrades”), which is suggested by Anna Angeli (1988). I also see a note which I believe indicates that Francesco Sbordone (1947) translated the name as “Adversus [sophistas]” meaning “Against Sophists”.

My personal preference is "For the Homies", but I can't academically justify it.

That was nice to watch. Thanks!

There's a link to the full transcription of P.Herc. 1005 in the annotations of that page.

I took a swing at To the Comrades by Philódēmos (P.Herc. 1005). Don did a great job here, and besides our attempts, I'm not familiar with any publications that contain the bulk in English. I'll continue polishing my attempt at a translation for what it's worth as I continue learning.

I just re-visted this and found some additions!

Nothing major, but I notice there's a fun reference to the "half-gods" or "demi-gods" (Fragment 96) and a few allusions to Leonteús throughout. Several times, as well, I notice the thrice-repeated phrase "falls from infinity" or "falls into infinity" with regard to vain ideas found in the extant works.

I was also reflecting (super niche, here...) that the name Dēmētría means "of Demeter" and for a modern analogue, we'd need a feminine name that is phonologically similar to "Earth". I don't recall classical culture providing us with an example, but, here again, a game series I mention in a previous post comes to the rescue by providing us with a female demi-goddess of the Earth named "Aerith". So, for any fans out there, to you, I say, "Aerith is the correct, modern equivalent to Dēmētría".

Bonus Fact! Légō can mean "picking out stones for building".

I don't know who needs to know this, but:

Leía means "booty" in ancient Greek.

May the Force be with you.

And not like anyone asked but I'd be remiss if I didn't take a swing at my own translation:

While you live, glow!
Suffer you never a sorrow!
For fleeting it is to withstand
the ending that time must demand.

And for the sake of a visual aid, here's this.

Usually, scholars rearrange the original lines to reinforce the rhyme scheme to students (AABB). Rarely is the lyrical poem analyzed according to the line breaks the poet originally chose.

Just to re-iterate what I posted with the picture, I'm re-posting the text.

In a nutshell, my thesis is that most scholars (at least whom I've read in English) have overlooked two mid-word line breaks in the original inscription that I believe were intentional, and add a dual connotation to the final two stanzas, notably, that "time" simultaneously means "disease".

Quote

I just found something really interesting that I wanted to bring up! I include the following in footnotes here. In a nutshell, I find that it is reasonable to suppose that (1) Seikílos was a seasoned composer, and (2) He was a proper Epicurean.

(...keeping in mind that Seikílos not only composed lyrical poetry, but also wrote instrumental notation...)

On the original stele, there are only two words that Seikílos breaks. He visually chooses to squeeze extra letters in some lines, and not in others. Given that it only happens twice, it seems intentional. He doesn't have to. The thing I notice specifically happens on lines 8-9 with the word "olígon" and on lines 10-11 with the word "khrónos".

Here's what I find:

(1) If you split "olígon esti" (or "few is") into "oli- \ -gon e...", then you introduce the word "gone" which means "offspring", "child", "fruit", "product". So Seikílos milks two notions out of one word ("smallness" and "new life"), just by employing the poetic feature of introducing a line break in the middle of a word.

(2) He does the same thing two lines later with a clever connotation. If you split "khrónos" and separate "-nos" then you create an allusion to "nósos" meaning "sickness", "disease", and "plague", creating the exact opposite image. In the context, it creates a poetic link between "time" and the inevitability of "illness".

Given that the first two lines use imperative, second-person verbs (creating a tone that's a little more like "YOU! GO SHINE!" and "YOU! SUFFER NOTHING!"), there is a sense of urgency that lines 3 and 4 of the couplets need to demonstrate to support the first two lines. So, as I think I have found in the poetry, I believe that Seikílos (to native, ancient Greek ears) was demonstrating this urgency by cleverly invoking both the imagery of sick and dying children and the image of rotten fruit, as though a life spent without "shining" is like diseased produce.

All of this fits beautifully with Epicurean fragments.

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Quote from TauPhi

This is cool. I didn't know about its existence.

That's a great stanza, and awesomely similar to the epitaph, very cool!

You know, I first came across it when I took a Humanities class 20 years ago, and the Greek transcription became my first tattoo a few years later, many years before I took up a study of Epicurean Philosophy. I'm jazzed, decades later to learn about the shared influences.

Welcome!

Quote from Cornelius Peripateticus

Puttana

NICE! Duolingo hasn't covered that one, yet.

You're definitely in the right place an an Epicurean enthusiast. Welcome to the forum!

My man!

Quote from Kalosyni

since he was a materialist perhaps he did not do any prayer.

Philódēmos records Epíkouros of having written that "it is fitting for us to pray’". In On Piety, he affirms that their opponents observed the Epicureans to share "propitious offerings and sincere and sonorous prayers" to the gods. So, even then, the opponents of Epíkouros, who accuse him of being impious, still document ancient Epicureans to have engaged in "sonorous prayers".

What kind of prayers? At least, whatever was being recited at the local theatron. Since it is not otherwise specified, I imagine they would have used the available prayers, just as they patronized the available civic festivals and available religious rituals provided in Attica. Perhaps a traditional hymn in Athens would have provided familiarity and calm, like our yearly Christmas tunes:

ORPHIC HYMN 15 (TO ZEUS)

Zeus invaluable, Zeus imperishable, here, you see, we [bear]
testimony: you [are] to be reverred, delivering and pre-eminent.
Oh, King — by your lead it was revealed on this account, divine,
Earth, Goddess, Mother, mountains and resounding cliffs,
both sea and all, as high as heaven, positioned within,
Zeus Timekeeper, sceptered, thundering, wild,
All-Generator, beginning of all, and end of all,
Earthquaker, Increaser, Purifyer, All-Shaker,
Flashing, Thundering, Electrifying, Nourishing Zeus;
Hear me, One-of-Changing-Form, permit, then, immaculate health,
and peace, Goddess, and immaculate magnificence of wealth.

Ζεῦ πολυτίμητε, Ζεῦ ἄφθιτε, τήνδε τοι ἡμεῖς
μαρτυρίαν τιθέμεσθα λυτήριον ἠδὲ πρόσευξιν.
ὦ βασιλεῦ, διὰ σὴν κεφαλὴν ἐφάνη τάδε θείᾱς,
γαῖα θεὰ μήτηρ ὀρέουσᾰ θ’ ὑψηχέες ὄχθοι,
καὶ πόντος καὶ πάνθ’, ὁπόσ’ οὐρανὸς ἐντὸς ἔταξε
Ζεῦ Κρόνιε, σκηπτοῦχε, καταιβάτα, ὀμβριμόθυμε,
παντογένεθλ’, ἀρχὴ πάντων, πάντων τε τελευτή,
σεισίχθων, αὐξητά, καθάρσιε, παντοτινάκτα,
ἀστραπαῖε, βρονταῖε, κεραύνιε, φυτάλιε Ζεῦ ·
κλῦθί μευ, αἰολόμορφε, δίδου δ’ ὑγίειαν ἀμεμφῆ
εἰρήνην τε θεὰν καὶ πλούτου δόξαν ἄμεμπτον.

Zeú polytímēte, Zeú áphthite, tḗnde toi ēmeîs
martyrían tithémestha lytḗrion ḗdè próseuxin.
ṓ basileû, dià sḗn kephalēn ephánē táde theías ,
gaîa theà mḗtēr oréousa th’ hypsēkhées ókhthoi,
kaí póntos kaí pánth’, opós’ oúranòs éntos étaxe
Zeú Krónie, skēptoúkhe, kataibáta, ombrimóthyme,
pantogénethl’, árkhē pántōn, pántōn te teleutḗ,
seisíkhthōn, auzēntá, kathársie, pantotinákta,
ástrapaeîe, brontaèe, keraünie, phytálie Zeú;
klythí meu, aìolómorphe, dídou d’ ygíeian ámemphē
eìrḗnēn te theàn kaì ploútou dóxan ámempton.

I'm sure most of us here both reject the narrative of the nativity, while also enjoying a few Christmas songs that were inspired by the celebrations related to the mythic birth of Christ. I have to imagine that Epicureans were the same in their preference for familiar comforts.

The key point is the rejection of intercessory prayer. Usually, we imply "intercessory" in the modern world when we say "prayer" to mean wish-fulfillment. Rather, as he writes in On Lifecourses, we pray "in order that [...] we may realize our fulfilments and social conformity with the laws" (Philódēmos, On Piety). Indeed, "prayers and obeisances and such honours for the gods are fitting".

Philódēmos also reports Epíkouros of having written in On Lifecourses that "to pray in natural for us", so, in the first place, prayer developed organically, like we developed the forms of gods in ancient dreams, so the act of praying precedes the composition of religious hymns. Then, also, there wasn't a great need for an Epicurean founder to craft a prayer that could be privileged by Epicureans as a proper, Epicurean prayer. Any prayer can be an Epicurean prayer so long as the supplicant is not requesting that the object of their reverence perform magic.

...but, in such the event that we needed one, I gave it a shot a while ago:

AN EPICUREAN HYMN TO HĒDONḖ

PLEASURESS Blessed, PLEASURESS Incorruptible, to this, truly, we
are disposed, testimony, both liberating and therepeutic;
Oh, Queen, because of your divine image, the good life was disclosed,
flavor, fragrance, radiance, warmth, oh, Goddess Fruitful,
and the immortal good of friendship, oh, Mother Bountiful;
PLEASURESS of the GARDENS, prudent, principled, peaceable,
All-Mother, Source-of-all, and End-of-all,
Common-to-All, Motivating, Smile-Loving, Nurse of Love,
Faithful, Fearless, Beloved, Nourishing PLEASURESS;
Hear me, LEADERESS: permit, then, immaculate painlessness,
peace, and, Goddess, also, immaculate impassiveness.

Ἡδονή μακαρία Ἡδονή ἀφθαρτε τήνδε τοι ἡμεῖς
μαρτυρίαν τιθέμεσθα λυτήριον ἠδὲ θερᾰπευτικήν·
ὦ βᾰσῐ́λῐσσᾰ διὰ σὴν εἰκόνᾰ θεία ἐφάνη τὸν ᾰ̓γᾰθόν βῐ́ον
γεῦσῐς εὐωδία καλή θέρμη ὦ θεὰ πολῠ́φορβος
καὶ ᾱ̓θανᾰ́τη ᾰ̓γαθή φῐλῐ́ας ὦ μήτηρ καρποφορος·
Ἡδονή ἐν κήποις φρόνιμη καλή δῐκαία
Παντογένεθλ’ ἀρχὴ πάντων πάντων τε τέλᾱ
Ποθεινοτάτη φιλομμειδής ἐρωτοτρόφος Πάνδημον
πῐστή ἄφοβε φῐ́λῐε φυτάλιε Ἡδονή·
κλῦθί μευ ἡγεμόνη δίδου δ’ ᾰ̓τᾰρᾰξῐ́ᾱν ἄμεμπτον
εἰρήνην τε θεὰν καὶ πλούτου ἀπονῐ́ᾱν ἄμεμπτον.

Hēdonḗ makaría, Hēdonḗ áphtharte, tḗnde toi ēmeîs
martyrían tithémestha lūtḗrion ḗdè therapeutiiḗn.
ṓ Basílissa dià sḗn eikóna theía ephánē tòn agathón bíon,
geûsis euōdía kalḗ thérmē, ṓ theà polýphorbos,
kaì athanátē ágathḗ philías ṓ mḗtēr karpophóros.
Hēdonḗ èn Kēpois, Phrónimē, Kalḗ, Dikaía,
pantogénethl’ árkhē pántōn, pántōn te teleutḗ,
Pándēmon Potheinotátē Philommeidḗs Erōtotróphos,
Pistḗ Áphobe Phílie Phytálie Hēdonḗ;
klythí meu Hēgemónē dídou d’ aponían ámempton
eìrḗnēn te theàn kaì ploútou ataraxían ámempton.

And while it isn't explicitly a hymn, or a prayer, I've always liked Usener fragment 469:

"Thanks [to] the blessed nature that has made the necessities obtainable,
but the unobtainable, unnecessary."

χάρις τῇ μακαρίᾳ φύσει ὅτι τὰ ἀναγκαῖα ἐποίησεν εὐπόριστα,
τὰ δὲ δυσπόριστα οὐκ ἀναγκαῖα.

I reached out to them in Greek (thanks, Google) regarding the CC/subtitles and they explained to me that CC appears after their feed has finished so the program has time to parse the speech.

It should be good, now.

Unfortunately, YouTube does not support CC/subtitles for this presentation.

They're just getting started.

The direct YouTube link is here. It'll begin in 20 hours or so.

Quote from Eikadistes

I tried making a connection with them, hoping for a live stream. No one's gotten back yet. I tried reaching Christos at ideoszen@gmail.com (I'm curious if anyone has a different e-mail for them).

I just heard back! Here's what they have to share:

Quote

Greetings from the Athenian Epicureans.
We are pleased to share the program for the 16th Symposium.
Please note that the event will be held in Greek.
You can watch the live stream at http://www.epicuros.gr/.

In friendship
Pan Pan

I tried making a connection with them, hoping for a live stream. No one's gotten back yet. I tried reaching Christos at ideoszen@gmail.com (I'm curious if anyone has a different e-mail for them).