Posts by Kalosyni

An fyi - I will be getting back to doing some refiling of threads in the coming weeks...We now have 700 posts in the General Dissussion Forum, and due to the complexity of the forum layout I know it can be hard for all of us (myself included) to determine the best place to post. This also brings up to mind that there could be the necessity for further reorganization of the forum, to make it easier to post and to find things.

Right now we have a large number of threads dealing with "Ethics" and "Lifestyle" and "Virtues" which are all related but currently filed under separate areas, and I will be thinking about possible ways to restructure the "Forum List" page so as to quickly find subsections.

So if something that you originally posted in "General Discussion" is no longer there, you can check your personal postings page (under your profile) to see where it has been moved, or send me a message with any questions.

Regarding the Stoics, we can look to the Wall of Oinoanda:

Quote

Fr. 32

...

If, gentlemen, the point at issue between these people and us involved inquiry into «what is the means of happiness?» and they wanted to say «the virtues» (which would actually be true), it would be unnecessary to take any other step than to agree with them about this, without more ado. But since, as I say, the issue is not «what is the means of happiness?» but «what is happiness and what is the ultimate goal of our nature?», I say both now and always, shouting out loudly to all Greeks and non-Greeks, that pleasure is the end of the best mode of life, while the virtues, which are inopportunely messed about by these people (being transferred from the place of the means to that of the end), are in no way an end, but the means to the end.

Let us therefore now state that this is true, making it our starting-point.

I started this list, but haven't yet added the text references:

Thread

List of Epicurean philosophical remedies

List of human life issues for which there are Epicurean philosophical remedies (there are specific Principal Doctrines and Vatican Sayings (etc) which address these issues).

There are Epicurean remedies for the following:

--anxiety that arises when realizing we are mortal and will one day die.

--anxiety that arises when we notice a drive to preserve our life for as long as possible.

--anxiety and fear that arises when we are sick and experience pain in the body (understanding the nature of…

Kalosyni

November 8, 2023 at 10:52 AM

Started some Christmas cheer early this year:

As we enter into the holiday season, I've been contemplating Christmas...which is a Christian holiday, but which has been taken over by western culture and has come to be a time to gather with family and friends to celebrate the beauty of winter and the joy of exchanging gifts, regardless of whether or not one is still Christian.

So something that perplexes me is the gift giving aspect, because it feels like an obligation. And yet I do get joy from giving gifts. And then there is the "worry" of what to buy or (make a craft item) that will please the recipients.

And I don't want to buy into the commercialisation of Christmas...not only the noisy advertising that urges you to "give really good gifts" to everyone, but which also includes the over-indulgences in Christmas sweets (external food stimulus rather than actual internal hunger).

So then this comes down to a personal decision, as to how far to take things, and to really ponder what brings pleasure and joy (without stressing out on things).

And then to consider that gift giving is a way to express gratitude and an act which reinforces the mutually beneficial ties of friends and family.

And when I think of remedies such as "accustom yourself to see that death is nothing to us" ...this is a deep and long practice, that takes time. And you will obviously still feel your autonomic reflexes kick in to prevent you from being run over by a bus. So this remedy is instead for the quiet anxiety that may arise in the middle of night as you ponder your mortality. And also we may feel we have conquered our fear, only to discover that when faced with an incurable disease that we may have to "start over" in a sense with the process, and deal with mortality given the new information. This is just our humanness (since we aren't gods ).

This thread reminds me that we need a list of Epicurean "remedies" for anxiety and fear. (I may have started that already somewhere ). And then we need corresponding sections of text to accompany each.

Quote from Don

My understanding is that ataraxia has to be worked on, arises from study and reflection, but once you have rooted out those beliefs that cause anxieties, fear, dread and turbulence in the mind, they don't grow back.

 

Epicurus instructs how to remove the false beliefs regarding the fear of gods and the fear of death.

This post has more references:

Post

RE: The Meaning of the Greek Word "Ataraxia"

From a prior post by Don:

Feb 19th 2023

#2

ΑΤΑΡΑΞΙΑ (Ataraxia and related terms: Note that αταραξια is literally "ataraksia" even though the usual English spelling is "ataraxia." Therefore, words that have atarak- are directly related.

From ἀ- (a-, “not”) +‎ ταράσσω (tarássō, “trouble, disturb”) +‎ -ῐ́ᾱ (-íā); Antonyms: τᾰρᾰχή (tarakhḗ)

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, ἀτα^ρ-αξία

PD17 One who acts aright is utterly steady and serene, whereas one who goes astray is full of…

Cassius

December 3, 2023 at 7:13 PM

These Principal Doctrines touch on resilience:

PD39: The person who has put together the best means for confidence about external threats is one who has become familiar with what is possible and at least not unfamiliar with what is not possible, but who has not mixed with things where even this could not be managed and who has driven away anything that is not advantageous.

PD40: All those who have the power to obtain the greatest confidence from their neighbors also live with each other most enjoyably in the most steadfast trust; and experiencing the strongest fellowship they do not lament as pitiful the untimely end of those who pass away.

Quote from Don

I would emphasize that ataraxia is not dependent on external cicircumstances.

I would venture to say that ataraxia depends upon safety and security. Resilience is something different which would be the ability to cope during high stress.

Here is another idea for a "pleasure pie". And could adjust this as perhaps the pain should be an even smaller sliver -- A life in which pleasure predominates over pain.

Just a reminder that this next Monday is our "First Monday Epicurean Philosophy Zoom Discussion"...message me if you need the link

Quote from Raphael Raul

In a society filled with a barrage of messages through all sorts of media communicating all the world's strife,

conflicts and wars, how can we let go of this relentless confusion and find peace of mind and tranquility?

First, we must realize that war has existed all through history, so we aren't in some kind of unique time. And in many countries we actually have more peace now than ever before.

In Epicurus' time: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:…lenistic_period

To calm our anxieties, we study the elements of Epicurean philosophy. We accustom ourselves to not fear death, because death is an inevitability for each one of us. For some it may come sooner than for others. And while we are alive we learn to live the best and most enjoyable and pleasant life as possible by considering what is necessary both for the health of the body and the happiness of the soul. We practice moving toward actions and activities that bring happiness and bliss, and these "crowd out" the unnecessary anxieties which earlier arose from the incorrect understanding of the nature of things (as well as the anxieties which arose from incorrect perspectives on reality).

Quote from Eoghan Gardiner

Overall, pleasure just has a terrible reputation, for some reason even non religious friends of mine do not desire to admit pleasure is the highest good.

Perhaps this is because when first impulses are followed instead of the wise consideration of choices and avoidances, an individual may end up with a unpleasant result.

Another question: does desire cause one to be "blinded" or unable to clearly observe reality?

Desire is a motivator (both a feeling and a thought) to take a specific action when we believe that what we do will result in pleasure and enjoyment. Pleasure is just an end result when life-serving human needs are met. Yet desire and pleasure get all tangled up. (There is still more introspection which I myself need to do on this).

Next Monday is our First Monday Zoom on December 4th! -- Meet-and-greet and Epicurean philosophy discussion.

This is a great way for newer members to meet others who are studying the philosophy of Epicurus and bring up any questions. Meeting is open also to long-time members as well. If you haven't yet participated in a First Monday Zoom meeting, please message me for further info.

Agenda for the evening: We will run about an hour, and start with greetings. Then move to the month's special topic, followed by open discussion on Epicurean philosophy, and Q&A for any who have questions.

Given that we are now heading toward the holiday season, a great topic to discuss is none other than pleasure! Pleasure and all it's glorious Epicurean complexity! I'll have a few pleasure oriented questions to throw out to spur on the discussion, and will also leave some time for open discussion as well.

Hope to see you there!

Here is a website for directions on zine making, which could either be "high-tech" images and text --or-- could be simple handwritten/hand-drawn to give it a more human feel.

How to make a one-page zine

experimentwithnature.com

The process that is bogging me down with creating the posters is the actual text, lol. And there will be a whole lot of text, so it is more instructional/educational in nature.

I started working on a pamplet (zine) a while back...and here is my unfinished project:

...this zine is also is black and white 8-1/2" x 11" and which folds up to create small pages, but was finding it hard to come up with exact wording (there are so many directions to take it).

Found this article on history of cheese in Greece:

Intro to Greek Cheeses

GREEK CHEESES -  A SHORT HISTORY The single most distinguishing characteristic of Greek cheese is that most of it is made with sheep’s milk, goat’s milk, or a…

www.dianekochilas.com

Did you use Bailey?

My first thought is that this could possibly confuse the AI search engines?

It does bring up some interesting ideas regarding pleasure, but might it be better to phrase them in your own words rather than copy a format that "sounds" like Epicurus?

VS47. I have anticipated thee, Fortune, and I have closed off every one of your devious entrances. And we will not give ourselves up as captives, to thee or to any other circumstance; but when it is time for us to go, spitting contempt on life and on those who cling to it maundering, we will leave from life singing aloud a glorious triumph-song on how nicely we lived. (Bailey translation).

A synonym of fortune is fate.

Dictionary definition of fate:

the will or principle or determining cause by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do : destiny … fate sometimes deals a straight flush … he had no idea that he would become the right man in the right place at the right time …— June Goodfield
2 a : an inevitable and often adverse outcome, condition, or end Her fate was to remain in exile.
b : disaster especially : death The villain met his fate at the hands of the hero.
3 a : final outcome Congress decided the bill's fate by a single vote.
b : the expected result of normal development prospective fate of embryonic cells
c : the circumstances that befall someone or something did not know the fate of her former classmates

Perhaps we study "cause and effect" at work in various situations, so we would not use the word fortune or fate except for with death (and taxes, lol). Perhaps certain choices do have inevitable results and thus require careful evaluation, but we have free will and so we aren't compelled by anything.

In all other circumstances except for death, we use choice and avoidance to avoid unanticipated results. We can't be certain of all outcomes, but almost like a chess game we keep our options open for responding to what occurs in a given situation. This would require knowledge and input from others who have knowledge.

We now know that healthy eating, exercise, and correct medical interventions have a high likelihood of extending lifespan. Yet we need to accept that the final end cannot be escaped.