Posts by Don

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  • Episode 281 - TD12 - Is Pain The Greatest Evil - Or Even An Evil At All?

    FYI

    PD10....the evil of life. ...ὅ περ ἐστὶ τὸ κακόν. NOTE: NO"of life" just "THAT (περ adds emphasis) is the evil. (I would suggest τὸ κακόν has the same connotation as ταγαθον (tagathon) "the highest good.")

    PD28 Evil doesn't seem to be in the original. Hicks: 28. The same conviction which inspires confidence that nothing we have to fear is eternal or even of long duration, also enables us to see that even in our limited conditions of life nothing enhances our security so much as friendship. (See Eikadistes ' PD compilation too)

    PD34 Ἡ ἀδικία οὐ καθ᾽ ἑαυτὴν κακόν,

    In Menoikeus, the word translated evil is overwhelmingly κακός (kakos). Except for 125: οὐθὲν γάρ ἐστιν ἐν τῷ ζῆν δεινὸν τῷ κατειληφότι γνησίως τὸ μηθὲν ὑπάρχειν ἐν τῷ μὴ ζῆν δεινόν.

    For there is nothing terrible in living for the one who truly comprehends that there is nothing terrible in not living."

    The same word as the 4th line of the Tetraphatmakos.

    Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, κα^κός

    Wiktionary has 93 head words listed for this word from Woodhouse, S. C. (1910) English–Greek Dictionary: A Vocabulary of the Attic Language

    κακός - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

  • The Garland of Tranquility and a Reposed Life

    Quote from Bryan
    Quote from Don

    Glossarium

    Yes on page 677, Usener says "τρικαλίνδητος, τρικυλίνδητος. ac similiter τρικυμία dicta. Epicurus dicit 'paratus sum ad vos quocumque iubebitis me ut trochum praecipiti cursu volventem agere (trudere)'"

    So he takes it as as a colloquialism, but based on the wheel imagery.

    "Epicurus says 'I am ready to go wherever you order me to go, as if I were a little whirling at a headlong course (to push)'" (via Google Translate)

  • The Garland of Tranquility and a Reposed Life

    Quote from Joshua

    [footnote 35.] Clay (1998: 247), who offers the translation “on a three-wheeled cart,” stresses the writer’s “enthusiasm and warmth.”

    Clay 1998 is from Diskin Clay. Paradosis & Survival: Three Chapters in the History of Epicurean Philsophy. University of Michigan Press: Ann Arbor, 1998. p. 247.

    Quote from Diskin Clay

    ...the letter Epicurus wrote to Themista in Lampsacus, telling her that if she and Leonteus could not come to him, he would join them "on a three-wheeled cart" (τρικυλιστος) wherever they say. 51

    51. As the phrase is sometimes rendered; in his Loeb translation of Diogenes Laertius, R.D. Hicks renders the adjective "to spin thrice on my own axis." For a less enthusiastic interpretation, cf. Usener's Glossarium Epicureum, edd. M. Gigante and W. Schmid (Rome 1997) 677.

    The Usnener reference might be available from Bryan. Bryan Do I remember you have a copy of the Glossarium?

    I also saw:

    So, the spinning three times and intertwining could refer to some kind of dancing. After all, friendship dances round in a circle as in a chorus.

    For reference for the garland:

    Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, Κκ , κύκνοψις , κυ^λ-ιστός

    I like the garland idea but I'm also intrigued by the dance possibility. Garlands are usually stephanos?

  • Personal mottos?

    Quote from Joshua

    I'm curious to know what you've found from Clay,

    Definitely on my list of things to do. I was able to pick it up yesterday. On quick glance, he seems to entertain the 3-wheel cart but there's also footnote to the Glossarium Epicurean. I may have to hit Bryan up for a lookup.

  • What Makes Someone "An Epicurean?"

    Quote from Kalosyni

    I'm pondering this question today (again)...of which there are two sides...1) "what would make me Epicurean" and 2) "what would make someone else Epicurean" or to "appear to be Epicurean" (such as people we know or characters in a movie).

    Revisiting Kalosyni 's post that revitalized this thread.

    My perspective is that both 1 and 2 hinge on motivation. We can't know someone else's (2) motivation. They can tell us, but we can't know what's really in their minds. That's why, I feel, we can assess behavior in others but not their motivation. Someone can say "I party because I'm an Epicurean, man!" We can ask "How did you feel the next day?" But we can't police (simply for lack of a better word) who calls themselves an Epicurean... Any more than Christians can't police who calls themselves a Christian.

    Now, for (1), that's another thing. If I call myself an epicurean simply because I like to eat fancy food, and drink fine wine, that's one thing and a very surface stereotype understanding of what that word means (hence my not capitalizing the word). But we can't forbid that usage. If, on the other hand, we decide - are motivated - to lean about this philosophy and to apply it to living our lives, we think of ourselves as Epicureans. Someone who lives a minimalist lifestyle may also honestly call themselves an Epicurean from another popular understanding of the actual philosophy. We here would tend to disagree with them, but can we - should we - try to make them stop? I'd say no. None of us have that authority. There is no "apostolic succession" from Epicurus to our time. And there could be denominations if there even were! The most we can do is try to get a deeper understanding of the philosophy out there and encourage sincere students of Epicurus.

  • ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus

    Quote from kochiekoch

    The poet Lucretius, secular as he was, featured her prominently in his poem for that and other reasons.

    Yes, at least 14 times by name, and most prominently, of course, right at the start.

    https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/searchresults?target=en&inContent=true&q=Venus&doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0131

    And the traditional gods are fine to use metaphorically. I always seem to go back to...

    ...whoso

    Decides to call the ocean Neptune, or

    The grain-crop Ceres, and prefers to abuse

    The name of Bacchus rather than pronounce

    The liquor's proper designation, him

    Let us permit to go on calling earth

    Mother of Gods, if only he will spare

    To taint his soul with foul religion.

  • What Makes Someone "An Epicurean?"

    Onenski has articulated much more eloquently than I could the thoughts that have been rolling around in my mind on this topic. Thank you!

    The question comes down to "Who gets to be the gatekeeper?" and "Who defines the in-group and who gets to exclude the out-group?" That's what I like about Onenski 's five categories. They show the spectrum of potential inclusivity and exclusivity. Granted, *I* can say who *I* think should be "allowed" to carry the label of "Epicurean," but I cannot assert any authoritative mandate on the "proper" use of that "title."

    We could maybe/probably assess someone's (or some character's) behavior as more or less prudent, more or less likely to lead to a pleasurable outcome. Even Epicurus, I would argue, did that! But do we get to assess whether someone gets to call themselves an "Epicurean"? Of that, I'm a little more skeptical. Honestly, I have a hard time "accepting" that Thomas Jefferson was a "real" Epicurean even though he was a self-professed one. But then I would appear to be falling into that fallacy I brought up, wouldn't I?

  • Personal mottos?

    Realizing this is way off topic for the thread:

    On the "three-wheeled cart", DeWitt cites his own paper in his footnote: 13 "N. W. DeWitt, "The Three-Wheeled Chair of Epicurus," CP 35(1940) 183-185.

    For the Pamela Gordon footnotes, it appears that in Diskin Clay's Paradosis and survival : three chapters in the history of Epicurean philosophy. According to our library catalog, it's supposed to be on the shelf in our Main Library - Social Sciences Department B512 .C57 1998. I'm putting this here for reference so I can look it up tomorrow. I'm really curious if Clay himself translates it that way.. or if he's referencing DeWitt.

    I've seen it glossed as metaphorically "easily influenced" (lit., thrice-rolled). So the line would end up being, “If you [plural], and Themista in particular invite me, I am capable of being easily influenced and rushing to wherever you are.” That seems more colloquial. The word also appears to be a hapax legomena (I just love that phrase. It just means "only occuring once in the corpus of texts"), so interpretation is virtually wide open.

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