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  1. EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy
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Posts by Don

  • Recorded Statements of Metrodorus

    • Don
    • July 28, 2025 at 1:08 PM
    Quote from Cassius

    And in the end, something similar for Hermarchus, though I gather there's a much smaller universe of surviving fragments.

    Der Epikureer Hermarchos [microform] : Krohn, Karl, 1895- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
    Greek texts with commentary in German and notes in Latin
    archive.org
  • Recorded Statements of Metrodorus

    • Don
    • July 28, 2025 at 10:53 AM

    It's important to remember that some of the Vatican Sayings are attributed to Metrodorus, too.

  • Recorded Statements of Metrodorus

    • Don
    • July 28, 2025 at 8:12 AM
    Metrodori Epicurei Fragmenta collegit scriptoris incerti Epicurei Commentarium moralem, subiecit Alfredus Koerte : Metrodorus, of Lampsacus, d. 277 B.C : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
    26
    archive.org

    It is in Latin and Greek, but it's also a source for citations to look up. It's come in handy in the past for me.

  • Fear and/or grief concerning the death of others

    • Don
    • July 27, 2025 at 11:14 PM
    Quote from Sam_Qwerty

    I have found that you have to allow yourself to feel the grief before you can release it. Sometimes in our culture, expressing emotions is not considered macho. You don't have to cry in front of other men. You can wait until you are in private. But if you don't allow yourself to ever cry, you will be carrying your grief around with you.

    I'll agree that you don't have to cry in front of other men, but I reject wholeheartedly the stoic character that men are too often expected to maintain in our culture. I was at an extended-family event recently, and a young boy (4-6 years old?) hit his head under a table under which he was crawling around under. He was stoic, holding the top of his head, walked over to his grandmother and buried his head under her arm and cried. She said, "he doesn't like people to see him cry." My heart ached. I wanted to say "hey, it's okay to cry" but I didn't. Extended family and all. The son of the daughter of a cousin. That attitude instilled in this young boy, understandable from a societal perspective, does damage. Feeling feelings is human, it's a natural part of living. To say "it's not manly.. not macho... To cry" or even most times to show affection even, that does no one any good. Express the feelings you feel honestly.

  • Fear and/or grief concerning the death of others

    • Don
    • July 27, 2025 at 4:36 PM

    Grief is a natural, human reaction to loss, and Epicurean philosophy accepts everyone will feel the sting of grief at the loss of a loved one.

    The thing is not to be overwhelmed by the grief. The person who died can no longer feel anything. If they were in pain, they no longer feel pain.

    The memory of the one who died is precious, and should be cherished, should bring pleasure.

    Fragment 213. Sweet is the memory of a dead friend. ἡδὺ ἡ φίλου μνήμη τεθνηκότος

  • Welcome Sam_Qwerty!

    • Don
    • July 22, 2025 at 8:41 PM

    Welcome aboard!!

  • Article: "Scientists Are Planning For Life After Finding Aliens"

    • Don
    • July 22, 2025 at 8:01 AM

    To get a fictional look at how the Catholic Church may react to beings on another planet, I highly recommend The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell. It doesn't go well, let's say. There's also a sequel: Children of God.

    (Side note: Russell also wrote two great novels featuring Doc Holliday and Wyatt Earp)

  • Happy Twentieth of July 2025!

    • Don
    • July 20, 2025 at 2:32 PM
    Quote from Kalosyni
    Quote from Don

    αὔριον εἰς λιτήν σε καλιάδα, φίλτατε Πείσων,
    ἐξ ἐνάτης ἕλκει μουσοφιλὴς ἕταρος,
    εἰκάδα δειπνίζων ἐνιαύσιον: εἰ δ᾽ ἀπολείψεις
    οὔθατα καὶ Βρομίου χιογενῆ πρόποσιν,
    ἀλλ᾽ ἑτάρους ὄψει παναληθέας, ἀλλ᾽ ἐπακούσῃ
    Φαιήκων γαίης πουλὺ μελιχρότερα:
    ἢν δέ ποτε στρέψῃς καὶ ἐς ἡμέας ὄμματα, Πείσων,
    ἄξομεν ἐκ λιτῆς εἰκάδα πιοτέρην.

    Display More

    Translation?

    Hope to see you next time! :)

    Display More

    It's just Philodemus' poem/invitation to Piso for the Twentieth. :)

    Philodemus: Epigrams - translation

    (11.44)

  • Happy Twentieth of July 2025!

    • Don
    • July 20, 2025 at 1:27 PM

    A joyous Twentieth to all!

    (I was out doing yard work this morning and time got away from me. I came in all sweaty and unpresenable at precisely 12:30!!)

    αὔριον εἰς λιτήν σε καλιάδα, φίλτατε Πείσων,
    ἐξ ἐνάτης ἕλκει μουσοφιλὴς ἕταρος,
    εἰκάδα δειπνίζων ἐνιαύσιον: εἰ δ᾽ ἀπολείψεις
    οὔθατα καὶ Βρομίου χιογενῆ πρόποσιν,
    ἀλλ᾽ ἑτάρους ὄψει παναληθέας, ἀλλ᾽ ἐπακούσῃ
    Φαιήκων γαίης πουλὺ μελιχρότερα:
    ἢν δέ ποτε στρέψῃς καὶ ἐς ἡμέας ὄμματα, Πείσων,
    ἄξομεν ἐκ λιτῆς εἰκάδα πιοτέρην.

  • VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere

    • Don
    • July 19, 2025 at 4:21 AM

    In looking closer, that phrase can't be (in the manuscript) μετά καλού...(bottom line above). What we (writ large) have been using as μετά has no ε in it but looks like a η. Also, that letter above the line doesn't appear to be a τ. The same shape, down to the line to the right is also in VS2, which is PD1, where the word below is ουδεν .

    So, on a cursory glance that word looks less like μετά and something like μηνα? μήνα being maybe genitive/accusative singular of μήνας "month"?? Then maybe καλη?? The feminine nominative singular of καλος?

    Admittedly, I'm looking at words in isolation out of context. That said, I personally like to try to stick to the manuscript text if at all possible, especially when it's as well preserved like the Vatican Sayings are and not filled with lacunae like the P.Herc's.

    This is all blue-skying it right now. Doing my usual muddying the waters.

  • VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere

    • Don
    • July 18, 2025 at 7:14 AM

    And if you go back to our discussion at the start of this thread: remember that παιωνος "triumph song" doesn't appear in the manuscript. It's πλειονος.

  • VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere

    • Don
    • July 17, 2025 at 5:24 PM
    Quote from DaveT

    Comments please.

    I've come across the following post questioning the attribution of VS 47 to Epicurus himself: VS 47" I have anticipated thee, Fortune, and entrenched myself against all thy secret attacks. And we will not give ourselves up as captives to thee or to any other circumstance; but when it is time for us to go, spitting contempt on life and on those who here vainly cling to it, we will leave life crying aloud in a glorious triumph-song that we have lived well."

    SOURCE: https://www.epicurism.info/etexts/VS.html#**

    Right. It's attributed to Metrodorus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrodoru…%29?wprov=sfla1

  • VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere

    • Don
    • July 17, 2025 at 10:37 AM
    Quote from Kalosyni

    I am wondering if it literally says "spitting contempt on life" or what exactly it said?

    Yes. I believe προσπτυσαντες conveys literally spitting upon.

    Another curiosity of this VS is that it's Metrodorus writing and not Epicurus.

  • Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living

    • Don
    • July 17, 2025 at 7:23 AM

    Fwiw...

    Epicurean Sage - Once the sage has become wise... affected by emotions
    Hicks: Moreover, he who has once become wise never more assumes the opposite habit, not even in semblance, if he can help it. Yonge: Also, that a man who has…
    sites.google.com
  • Preuss - "Epicurean Ethics - Katastematic Hedonism"

    • Don
    • July 13, 2025 at 11:08 AM

    136] [Epicurus] differs from the Cyrenaics with regard to pleasure. They do not include under the term the pleasure which is a state of rest (καταστηματικὴν katastematiken), but only that which consists in motion (ἐν κινήσει en kinesei). Epicurus admits both ; also pleasure of mind as well as of body (ψυχῆς καὶ σώματος), as [Epicurus] states:

    • in [Epicurus'] work On Choice and Avoidance
    • and in [Epicurus'] On the Ethical End,
    • and in [Epicurus'] first book of his work On Human Life
    • and in [Epicurus'] epistle to his philosopher friends in Mytilene.
    • So also Diogenes in the seventeenth book of his Epilecta,
    • and Metrodorus in his Timocrates, whose actual words are : "Thus pleasure being conceived both as that species which consists in motion and that which is a state of rest."
    • The words of Epicurus in his work On Choice [and Avoidance] are : "Peace of mind and freedom from pain are pleasures which imply a state of rest ; joy and delight are seen to consist in motion and activity."
  • Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living

    • Don
    • July 13, 2025 at 12:15 AM
    Quote from Cassius

    why a basic formulation such as "...we call pleasure the beginning and end of the happy life) might occur in the letter to Menoeceus

    From my Menoikeus paper:

    A short digression is now in order to examine that phrase ἀρχὴν καὶ τέλος "the foundation and fulfillment, the beginning and end." Often, this is simply translated as "the beginning and the end" as if there's a starting line and a finish line. This is much deeper than that, although the running of a race could be one metaphor that could used. Let's first look at the word ἀρχὴν (accusative of ἀρχή).

    ἀρχή (arkhē)

    English archeology "study of beginnings/origins" but also the -archy in monarchy, patriarchy, etc.

    ᾰ̓ρχή carries the meaning of beginning, origin, foundation, the farthest point. It even took on the meaning of "the corners of a sheet" by the time the New Testament was being written (Acts 10:11). It also had the connotation of the "beginning of power" residing in a ruler, the "most important person" in a kingdom. It carries the idea of a foundational element or first principle. The alpha (first letter of the Greek alphabet) to τέλος's omega (the last letter of the Greek alphabet) which is how Hicks translated them.

    τέλος (telos) carries the meaning of endings, the goal, completion, maturity, result, fulfillment, consummation. Where αρχή is the foundation, τέλος is the highest point. The definition of τέλος in LSJ is extensive!

    Αρχή is not quite as long but gives the nuance we're working with.

    Therefore, to translate ἀρχὴν καὶ τέλος as "beginning and end" (every other translation I've seen except Hicks) misses a lot of deeper meaning. This phrase is one that I highly recommend giving more attention to in one's personal translation or at least being aware of when reading. We miss so much by not examining Epicurus's words. Always go back to the texts!

  • Welcome DistantLaughter!

    • Don
    • July 11, 2025 at 10:31 PM

    Thanks for the thoughtful opening post. Welcome aboard!

    If you're interested in a deep dive into the letter to Menoikeus (my transliteration of his Greek name), I'll offer my translation and commentary available here: Epicurus's Letter to Menoikeus - A New Translation with Commentary

  • Epicurus' Prolepsis vs Heraclitus' Flux

    • Don
    • July 10, 2025 at 6:21 AM
    Quote from Martin quoting Bryan

    "Invisible atoms and their wakes" sounds more like Heraclitus' flux than Epicurus' atomism.

    Bryan : Are you referring to dark matter?

    As far as "seeing" atoms, it depends on your definition of "see":

    See the Highest-Resolution Atomic Image Ever Captured
    Scientists achieved a record level of visual detail with an imaging technique that could help develop future electronics and better batteries
    www.scientificamerican.com

    And

    Photographing a Single Atom | David Nadlinger

    But

    Quote from Quote from second article

    Before getting into the details of the science behind all this, one particular misconception that has cropped up in the search for sensationalist headlines should be addressed:

    Is this an advance in science? Have single atoms been photographed before?
    In short: Not in the least; and yes, probably even before I was born.

  • Epicurus and the Pleasure of the Stomach

    • Don
    • July 8, 2025 at 9:53 PM

  • July 7, 2025 First Monday Zoom Discussion 8pm ET - Agenda & Topic of discussion

    • Don
    • July 7, 2025 at 5:57 PM

    No argument there! Plenty of rabbit holes. :)

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