Posts by Joshua

A few relevant passages on dreams;

Lucretius

Book 3, 111-116

Munro Translation;

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Moreover when the limbs are consigned to soft sleep and the burdened body lies diffused without sense, there is yet a something else in us which during that time is moved in many ways and admits into it all the motions of joy and unreal cares of the heart.

Bailey translation;

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Moreover, when the limbs are given up to soft sleep, and the heavy body lies slack and senseless, yet there is something else in us, which at that very time is stirred in many ways, and admits within itself all the motions of joy and baseless cares of heart.

There are several passages throughout Book 4 that deal with dreams and the fleeting images that are supposed to cause them. I don't know if it's worth getting into the weeds there, but in Book 4, 962-972, we are given another insight;

Munro;

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And generally to whatever pursuit a man is closely tied down and strongly attached, on whatever subject we have previously much dwelt, the mind having been put to a more than usual strain in it, during sleep we for the most part fancy that we are engaged in the same; lawyers think they plead causes and draw up covenants of sale, generals that they fight and engage in battle, sailors that they wage and carry on war with the winds, we think we pursue our task and investigate the nature of things constantly and consign it when discovered to writings in our native tongue.

And of course the Vatican Saying on dreams, translated by Cyril Bailey;

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Dreams have no divine character nor any prophetic force, but they originate from the influx of images.

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I had heard of it in the past, and probably skimmed some of it, but when I saw how anti-Epicurean it was I just moved on

That was probably my first reaction as well. I've always liked Tennyson, though he is by no means my favorite English poet. In some ways I think I read Lucretius the same way Tennyson himself read De Rerum Natura—in being deeply moved by the power of the poetry, while strongly disagreeing with its ideas.

I saw the Facebook question you shared in the other thread, Cassius, and the answer is yes; I am excited to explore all three writers, and for the next poem I will find something sympathetic to our cause. I have two volumes of Horace on my nightstand, so that will probably be the next selection.

https://livingpoets.dur.ac.uk/w/Alfred_Lord_…retius%E2%80%99

And the full text. Don't feel rushed! I don't mind delays to get things right.

that was mine, my dream, I knew it―

Of and belonging to me, as the dog

With inward yelp and restless forefoot plies 45

His function of the woodland: but the next!

I thought that all the blood by Sylla shed

Came driving rainlike down again on earth,

And where it dash’d the reddening meadow, sprang

No dragon warriors from Cadmean teeth, 50

For these I thought my dream would show to me,

But girls, Hetairai, curious in their art,

Hired animalisms, vile as those that made

The mulberry-faced Dictator’s orgies worse

Than aught they fable of the quiet Gods. 55

And hands they mixt, and yell’d and round me drove

In narrowing circles till I yell’d again

Half-suffocated, and sprang up, and saw―

Was it the first beam of my latest day?

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That's probably as far as I'll get. There's a line in the previous section; "perchance/ we do but recollect the dreams that come/ just ere the waking"

Yes, I think 10 minutes or even shorter is a good target. And once I have a set of them done I can strip the audio and edit it down to a podcast length for a separate release.

I'm scripting the next episode for recording tomorrow evening. A major focus of this passage will be Dreams. I'll dig into the source material this evening, but if you have any points you'd like me to touch upon then we can put them here.

As I work through Tennyson's poem I am beginning to think of it as an "inverted epitome", presented in dramatic form. Tennyson seems to try thoroughly to undermine the system of Epicurus, touching on every point—physics, phenomenology, ethics, theology, etc.

Thank you for the feedback!

I need to look at writing a script before the next recording, to tighten things up a bit. I see that Eoghan arrived at the same conclusion on his videos. I think Don makes a good point about clearer introductions; I certainly should be aiming to interest a wider range of people!

The presentation itself was made in LibreOffice 'Presentation' (a PowerPoint analogue) and I'm simply using OBS Studio as a screen capture (with mic audio) of the presentation on a second display. So I'm actually recording the audio and video at the same time. OBS Studio doesn't have a native editing client, which is why I went to Lightworks.

Whether it makes more sense as a video project or a podcast (or both) is something I'll certainly think about as it develops. Does it help to have text/images on the screen?

I've uploaded the first episode. I had more trouble than anticipated with editing due to technical problems that I don't even begin to understand, but I used other software than I was planning and it worked out alright. I've used the free version for everything;

Captured/recorded in OBS Studio,

File converted in VLC media player

Audio and Video edited in Lightworks,

Saved as .mp4 for publication on Youtube

Enjoy! I don't know how interesting or useful these will be, but they'll be very good experience for me in building toward other projects down the road.

I agree with Don, it was a pleasure tuning in!

As to the issue of the metaphorical 'paean to nature', there are two use cases that always come to mind. The first is Einstein, who had a religious sense of awe, but one that precluded any belief in a personal god. He ascribed, he said, to Spinoza's god. In spite of his clear nontheism he is the most widely misquoted scientist of all time on the the subject of religion—by the religious, of course.

The second case is Darwin; the Lady Hope story demonstrates that when the believers in the supernatural cannot misconstrue your words, they will fabricate new words for your mouth altogether. So that to refrain from poetic usage seems to me to be rather like negotiating with terrorists.

Here is the email exchange with Koen;

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Good afternoon,

I am Joshua Elbert [user jjelbert] writing in connection with the epicureanfriends.com forum, where I am active daily. I am a friend of that site, but not in any way a representative.

I am inquiring about the photography of Erik Anderson as it relates to the key figures of Epicureanism; Erik captured several photographs of ancient sculptures, including a portrait bust from Roman antiquity of Epicurus himself at the Capitoline Museum in Rome.

I am hoping to learn of the copyright status of these photographs; who holds the claim, and whether permission can be granted for use in our videos, websites, and educational and informative material--with attribution to Mr. Anderson, of course.

I would appreciate any assistance or direction.

Thank you,

Joshua Elbert

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Dear Joshua,

After his death I continued his website, by copying it integrally. I think his family inherited all rights? I tried to contact them to ask for permission to continue the website. But it did not receive a response.

Kind and epicurean regards from the Netherlands,

Vriendelijke groet, [n.b. "Kind Regards"]

- Koen de Heer

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Dear Koen,

Thank you very much! And thank you also for maintaing his old site. Can I post your last email to the forum? We have others who are curious, and I am certain they would like to know that you gave your time and energy to revive it. Or I can leave out your name, if you prefer it that way.

I am pleased to know that Epicurus is remembered fondly by one at least, in the land of Huygens and Spinoza.

Gratefully,

Joshua

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Dear Joshua,

Sure! No need to publish anonymously. (But please do correct my linguistic error. Perhaps I should add a note to Erik's website. Up until now I have been reluctant to change the content, even the smallest

detail.

Very pleased to know that it helped someone. As the website was very

insightful for me, in getting acquainted with epicureanism, which was a

philosophical revelation to me, I thought it was terrible that the website went offline, not benefiting others anymore. Erik did a superb job creating his website.

I am not familiar with epicureanfriends.com and I will surf there soon. Indeed, it is not very often you meet someone familiar with

Hellenistic philosophy.

Yours sincerely,

-Koen de Heer

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I have not replied to that last, but certainly will—with gratitude, and an invitation to the forum! As to Koen's English, it is excellent and I have not edited any of it.

The email address I used was contact@epicurism.info

I have had a reply to my email, and will post it here when I have the sender's permission. The writer is indeed from the Netherlands, and has previously attempted to contact Mr. Anderson's family, but with no reply.

The letter itself is full of charm, which is why I am hoping for permission to publish it here.

I have a recording that I'm fairly happy with for a first attempt. I'll do a little light editing tomorrow before I post it. OBS Studio seems to do a fair job at audio, I didn't have to tamper with it at all! I need to put a little more work into scripting, but in other respects things are looking alright.

Yes, that's the one. In any case the copyright would go to his heirs in (presumably) Oregon, unless he made other arrangements. I did send an email to the webmaster, but have not had a reply.

Since his photos are not archived on any stock image site, and we cannot reasonably trace his bequests or know his wishes (except that in his life he did readily grant permission to republish his writings on Epicurus), and further that the photos are reproductions of artworks millennia out of copyright, I don't feel that there's much of an ethical or legal risk here. I don't mind using it to create derivative informational work. I can only hope that his family understands!

Another stab at the artwork. This uses Erik Anderson's photo above. It lacks the gravitas of the earlier effort, but that may not be a bad thing. More bookish, and less reminiscent of a U.S. banknote. The text has problems, but it's a start.

Cassius, do you happen to know anything about the current curator of Erik Anderson's old site? He has an image of the same bust I used above; an artful photo which he took himself at the Capitoline Museum in Rome. It would be the perfect photo to use--a fine portrait of Epicurus, as well as an homage to one of the early Epicureans of the internet age. I'm asking as a prelude to writing the webmaster--I just don't know where that e-mail will land!

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/248475?searchField=All&sortBy=Relevance&ft=epicurus&offset=0&rpp=20&pos=1

This image is listed as public domain by the museum that holds it. At some point we should think about a central location for all images of Epicurus known to be in the public domain.

I've been reading further as well.

I have identified the copyright holder of the photograph. The image is available on several stock image sites, all sourced back to one individual; apparently this is common for photographers to license their images through several different outlets simultaneously. I would be willing to pay a nominal fee--less than $100, say--for such a license, except that the terms of the licenses on offer are so convoluted and opaque. I would probably be fine regardless; but in order to be free of any and all trouble forever (a fine goal!), I think I will choose a different photo to work off of.

I have also found, looking through Wikimedia Commons, that several photographs of busts of Epicurus are already offered either in the public domain, or under a Creative Commons license. That's likely the route I'll go, but I'll also keep looking.

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Call it fair use (unless you're making money) and derivative works.

Perfect!

And a timeless quandary; to what extent are photographs of these old sculptures protected by copyright?

Further work on the logo/art;

With space for project title;

And a longer version as a banner;

What I really need now is a good text editor with a block font that works well with this art style! Hoping to record something tomorrow evening.

-josh