Posts by Joshua

Welcome Philia! Took a detour through Buddhism myself, by way of the New England Transcendentalists (mostly Thoreau) and their obsession with Eastern quasi-profoundities.

When I could not reconcile the attitude of Western Zen or the claims of Secular Buddhism with the plain reading of the sutras, especially on the question of Rebirth, I began to realize I had tarried too long "East of Suez" (metaphorically speaking). I needed to find my way home. It was Lucretius who brought me back, and Stephen Greenblatt; but above all Lucretius.

Try this on for size;

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There's use within

A cooper's barrel,

But beauty more

In oak and ash–

The poet's verse

Was fine and subtle—

Translated in

A leaking cask.

You're spot on Don, the last line gave me by far the greatest struggle.

My original wording was:

The poet's verse

Was fine and subtle—

The translator's,

A f***ing joke!

I then switched "ash and oak" and rhymed it 'trash'...

I'll keep 'tinkering', as you like to say

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I still think the topic of the poem has merit, but I'm wondering if I need another structure...

Well, I can offer my...erm...tongue-in-cheek submission 😋

___________________________

Note; on the Translator

Good friend beware

this slack apparel;

It once wore well

But no more does;

The wine is old,

But not the bottle–

T'will serve, but is

Not what it was.

There's use within

A cooper's barrel,

But beauty more

In ash and oak–

The poet's verse

Was fine and subtle—

The translator's

Is rancid yolk!

One of my favorite poems in college was Ulysses by Alfred Tennyson, and there's a great line presumed to have been drawn from Lucretius;

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Life piled on life

Were all too little, and of one to me

Little remains: but every hour is saved

From that eternal silence, something more,

A bringer of new things; and vile it were

For some three suns to store and hoard myself,

And this grey spirit yearning in desire

To follow knowledge like a sinking star,

Beyond the utmost bound of human thought.

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Is that apple or Android

Android...I'm sure it was free, but probably not open source. I'll give AntennaPod a try!

Oh, yes. I probably just searched 'Lucretius' way back whenever, and it came right up.

I originally downloaded it for a podcast called Hello Internet, now sadly defunct, and it says I've listened with the app for nearly 500 hours altogether. So it works just fine, but possibly there are better options?

I used to follow Sam Harris with some regularity since he occupies the intersection of the so-called 'New Atheism' and Buddhism, and I had at that time a foot in both camps. Denying Free Will was a regular subject in his mental universe, and I also have friends who are of that opinion. I never really fell in line with it.

For one thing, the denial of Free Will is useless to me in trying to figure out how to live. Indeed, it appears to reduce the question to something like nihilism.

My course has been to accept Free Will based on the observation of lived experience (like Chomsky), but to assume at the same time a diminished capacity for it in other people. This is a purely consequentialist and an entirely fanciful assumption; if I assume that others in some degree lack Free Will, it opens the door to compassion and forgiveness rather than anger, and hatred. It allows me to refrain from attributing motive to others for choices I see as wrong, which is always risky, and it prevents me (to a degree) from putting myself above others.

Every decision we do make is subject to a kind of 'force-diagram', where culture, habit, education, knowledge, experience, peer pressure, preference, risk, and reward all cooperate to indicate a likely response—but it is not, in my view, a necessary response.

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VS9. Necessity is an evil, but there is no necessity to live under the control of necessity.

It's been wonderful to see how many new members found us through the podcast. You and the panelists are clearly doing great work in filling a particular content void!

I use Castbox as my podcast app (for no particular reason that I can remember now), and the only thing that irks me is that when I finish an episode it jumps next to the lowest (i.e. earliest) unplayed or unfinished episode in the list. Obviously what I want it to do is play the next episode in sequence, moving forward in time. This is possibly something I can change myself, but I can't figure out how.

Here's something completely irrelevant; when the Romans got hold of the word ἀγρός, they used it in one of the two principal words they had for "land-surveyor". The Gromatici were those skilled in the use of the groma, a tool for laying out roads, camps and new settlements, in the classic Roman way of straight lines and right angles. But the Finitors, or Agrimensores, were responsible for settling boundary disputes between parties, replacing lost boundary stones, and the like. Other types of unofficial mensores or 'measurers' were employed in the various tasks of laying out orchards, vineyards, grain fields and such.

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I think the limit "boundary-stone" idea and the limit "end/purpose" idea are not as far apart as might seem.

Lucretius does use the exact phrase "deep-set boundary stone" (alte terminus haerens, I think) in Book I.

There's something to all of this, but I haven't been able to crack it. I've written here before about the English and Colonial practice of Beating the Bounds. The ritual is thought to have had a Roman origin.

So a boundary stone is a definer of limits; but it is also (or was) the subject of ceremony and ritual, a focal point of collective memory, something agreed upon and quite literally "settled"...

I don't know. It's uncanny how often the words 'borders' and 'boundaries' and 'limits' come up in Lucretius. But I don't have a satisfactory resolution.

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Looks like our resident poet JJElbert must be taking a sabbatical!

Don't go putting all my stuff in the yard just yet

Don, I see you're getting well-acquainted with the particular difficulties of short lines! Let me sit with it a bit, I'll try to circle back.

When I was in high school I had his 12 precepts tacked to my wall.

Ironically number 13 that you cite is not original. He added it, if I recall, in response to a reader complaint. I remember an illustration for 12 🤔...something about not bringing ill-repute on yourself or your partner? I'll have to look into it later.

I haven't encountered Kile or Lyx in my reading, but they look like they should work. Kile in particular looks like every LaTeX editor I've seen. You may have to download the expex package depending on the size of their native package libraries. Let me know if it works!

I'm also going to attach a link to an interlinear edition of Virgil that was published in 1917. It has been helpful to me in settling on a style.

https://archive.org/details/virgil…age/n7/mode/2up

It won't let me upload a .tex file directly, and in any case I think you'd need to have a TeX distro installed to even open it. But here's a screenshot of the working GUI.

Just in case it matters, I'm using TeXWorks which downloads as part of the TeXLive bundle. I think it's the most widely used; I'm using it because the Beginner's Guide to LaTeX suggests it.

Here's a rough idea of what's going on there;

Everything above \begin{document} is referred to as preamble. The preamble is where you set parameters for the entire document--document class, paper size and orientation, font, text size, margin width, etc. This is also where you tell it which extra packages to use. if you don't set parameters, it defaults to LaTeX's standard.

You can add commands to the preamble at any time. You can be a hundred pages into a document, and decide to change the margin width for the whole thing; it's one command in the preamble.

In the body of the text starting with \begin{document}, I put together a quick title and jumped right into glossing. The \maketitle command is looking for Title, Author, and Date. I used the \date{Liber Primus} command as a workaround to get "Liber Primus" into the title. There's probably a more elegant solution--I just don't know enough about LaTeX!

In the preamble I used the command \usepackage{expex}. Everything I'm doing after \maketitle relies on this package. It breaks the gloss into lines with their own styles; Gloss A, (gla), which I've set using boldface, and gloss B (glb), which I've set to a smaller text size. There is a way to do this to where it formats all of the glosses in the document the way you want, but I haven't been able to get that working.

You'll notice it's highly repetitive. Actually for each line of Latin text I can simply copy and paste the following into the text editor;

\begingl

\gla[everygla=\bf]

\glb[everyglb=\footnotesize]

\endgl

And then fill in line A with Latin and Line B with English.

If it requires more than one English word to gloss a Latin word, as it frequently does, put all of the English words for that word into curly braces "{}"; that's how expex keeps everything lined up properly. And at the end of every line A or B, put in two forward slashes to signify a line break.

At the bottom of the PDF I have a full page solid line. I wanted to know how to do that in LaTeX, so I googled it. I found the answer on stackexchange in about 15 seconds. the command is \hrule.

To keep things running smoothly, make sure every curly brace "{" has its correspondent "}", and every \begin has its \end.

I am slowly (ever so slowly) getting the hang of LaTeX. I've attached two files; the first ("Untitled4.pdf") is one that I've already uploaded in this thread. It was my first attempt at the text using LibreOffice.

The second is my first attempt using LaTeX. I think you'll agree the second looks better. Now, hypothetically that is about how much text would appear on each page--and below the solid line would be the dictionary entry for each word and other textual notes.

Let me also add;

I realize that using a mark-up language rather than, say, Google Docs, will impose a barrier to collaboration because most people won't want to bother learning the process. I don't blame them!

But you can still help me! As I get things moving, I will post the PDF's of my progress. At that stage, especially early on, I will need as much feedback and proofreading as I can get!

I've been banging my head against the problem of typesetting the Interlinear Edition of DRN, and this is where I'm at right now.

In another thread, I slightly explored and we discussed some of the options for typesetting the text. I mentioned the option of using tables in Microsoft Office/LibreOffice to keep things lined up. This works, but not elegantly.

I've since been exploring the TeX (pronounced "tek") family of typesetting Mark-Up languages. TeX works by using bits of code interspersed with the text to take care of the formatting, and it can do some pretty incredible stuff. The most common use is in academia, where it is used to typeset documents with complex mathematical formulae; difficult or impossible to format properly in Word, but fairly straightforward in a mark-up language once you learn the commands.

The software is community-supported and open source, and the original software has been improved by the creation of "macros" to add functionality. LaTex (Lay-tek) is a collection of such macros, and is the most widely used version of the TeX language.

LaTex itself has been further improved by more third party macros. These macros are collected into "packages", which are loaded for use by a command at the beginning of the document being prepared.

ExPeX (EkPek? EcksPek?) is one such package, designed specifically by and for linguists in order to solve the problem of formatting interlinear text. I'm currently planning to go all in on LaTeX with ExPeX as the solution to my own problem.

The trouble with open source software is usually getting it up and running. In the case of TeX/LaTeX, one needs an editor/compiler to actually use the software. Any given editor/compiler is referred to as a "distribution". In theory, when you download and install any LaTeX distribution it will come pre-installed with all of the core LaTeX macros. Other macros can be had by downloading packages through the distribution's GUI.

I'm going to use LaTeX as the mark-up language. I'm going to use the ExPeX package to handle interlinear glosses. What I haven't figured out yet is which distribution I'm going to use. My early efforts have been in TeX Studio, known for being user friendly. I won't say I haven't been having problems, but I am gradually learning.

I have book coming in the mail on Monday to help me learn.

There is another option; a website called Overleaf specializes in LaTeX collaboration. Think of it as a cloud-based distribution. There is, however, a small monthly fee.

When I learn more, I'll post it here!

I'm sorry to say I couldn't find that exchange. I hope I didn't delete it but I'm afraid I must have.