Posts by Joshua

It would be difficulty to express it accurately and concisely, but here is my attempt:

Plato held that (1) the pursuit of pleasure could not be the best mode of life, because (2) pleasure has no limit--and (3) having no limit, the pursuit of limitless pleasure ends in wickedness.

(4) Virtue is the way to correct wickedness, (5) and Divine Law is the supernatural check against the heedless pursuit of pleasure.

But Epicurus thought (1) that the pursuit of pleasure was the best mode of life, because (2) the limit of the quantity of pleasure is the removal of all pain--and (3) culminating in the removal of all pain, the pursuit of pleasure does not lead to wickedness. (4) The wicked bring pain on themselves, (5) and pain is the natural check against the heedless pursuit of pleasure.

Principal Doctrine 3

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ὅρος τοῦ μεγέθους τῶν ἡδονῶν ἡ παντὸς τοῦ ἀλγοῦντος ὑπεξαίρεσις. ὅπου δʼἂν τὸ ἡδόμενον ἐνῇ, καθʼὃν ἂν χρόνον ᾖ, ουκ ἔστι τὸ ἀλγοῦν ἢ λυπούμενον ἢ τὸ συναμφότερον.

Cyril Bailey:

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The limit of quantity in pleasures is the removal of all that is painful. Wherever pleasure is present, as long as it is there, there is neither pain of body nor of mind, nor of both at once.

Inwood and Gerson:

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The removal of all feeling of pain is the limit of the magnitude of pleasures. Wherever a pleasurable feeling is present, for as long as it is present, there is neither a feeling of pain nor a feeling of distress, nor both together.

Peter Saint-Andre

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The limit of enjoyment is the removal of all pains. Wherever and for however long pleasure is present, there is neither bodily pain nor mental distress.

from Plato's Philebus:

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Σωκράτης

καὶ ἄλλα γε δὴ μυρία ἐπιλείπω λέγων, οἷον μεθ᾽ ὑγιείας κάλλος καὶ ἰσχύν, καὶ ἐν ψυχαῖς αὖ πάμπολλα ἕτερα καὶ πάγκαλα. ὕβριν γάρ που καὶ σύμπασαν πάντων πονηρίαν αὕτη κατιδοῦσα ἡ θεός, ὦ καλὲ Φίληβε, πέρας οὔτε ἡδονῶν οὐδὲν οὔτε πλησμονῶν ἐνὸν ἐν αὐτοῖς, νόμον καὶ τάξιν πέρας ἔχοντ᾽ ἔθετο: καὶ σὺ μὲν ἀποκναῖσαι φῂς αὐτήν, ἐγὼ δὲ τοὐναντίον ἀποσῶσαι λέγω. σοὶ δέ, ὦ Πρώταρχε, πῶς φαίνεται;

Benjamin Jowett:

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Soc. I omit ten thousand other things, such as beauty and health and strength, and the many beauties and high perfections of the soul: O my beautiful Philebus, the goddess, methinks, seeing the universal wantonness and wickedness of all things, and that there was in them no limit to pleasures and self-indulgence, devised the limit of law and order, whereby, as you say, Philebus, she torments, or as I maintain, delivers the soul-What think you, Protarchus?

Harold Fowler:

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There are countless other things which I pass over, such as health, beauty, and strength of the body and the many glorious beauties of the soul. For this goddess,1 my fair Philebus, beholding the violence and universal wickedness which prevailed, since there was no limit of pleasures or of indulgence in them, established law and order, which contain a limit. You say she did harm; I say, on the contrary, she brought salvation. What do you think, Protarchus?

That was quick!

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RE: Getting Started - Initial Thoughts on 3D Printing

epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/1861/

(This passage does not describe the double-herm in question, but a separate herm bust now lost. Only the shaft with the inscription survives.)

Joshua

April 28, 2021 at 10:52 PM

We discuss the same problem in that thread.

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In ancient art, double herms were a common statue type. While in Greece they were displayed in public rooms, in the Roman empire they were shown in private spaces.

-Wikipedia

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Double herms were a creation of the imperial period and this example is one of four double herms found in the corners of the peristyle garden of the villa at Fondo Bottaro, one each corner.

That seems to me the best explanation. The floor-plan of these ancient villas was so thoroughly different to the way we do things now where everything gets shoved against wall. Their walls had frescoes, not televisions. Furniture and objects would be arranged in the center of the room. The perimeter of the room was for walking--a place where slaves would be on hand and free to move about, but of the way.

The "corners" of a peristyle courtyard would still be away from the walls some considerable distance, as a colonnade and covered walkway would surround the garden.

Everyone sitting down side by side and facing one wall is an artefact of the fireplace, and then the television. A Roman villa would use braziers, not a hearth.

Right hand sketch.

Another sketch...still looking.

The other possibility is that a bust was found without its plinth, and it was affixed to a different one.

There is a renaissance statue of Poggio Bracciolini that was found in a collection of statues portraying the Last Supper. The scholarship on this sort of thing wasn't particularly scrupulous for a long time.

This is one of the surviving "double-herm" statues showing Metrodorus. A 1st century Roman copy, I think.

This inscription (the left one) says Ἕρμαρχoς -- (Hermarxos, Hermarchus.)

This appears to be the bust that the left sketch was taken of. Some websites record this as Metrodorus, but again the inscription makes it clear. This is Hermarchus.

I'll see what I can find about the righthand sketch.

I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier.

First Snow in Alsace

by Richard Wilbur

The snow came down last night like moths

Burned on the moon; it fell till dawn,

Covered the town with simple cloths.

Absolute snow lies rumpled on

What shellbursts scattered and deranged,

Entangled railings, crevassed lawn.

As if it did not know they'd changed,

Snow smoothly clasps the roofs of homes

Fear-gutted, trustless and estranged.

The ration stacks are milky domes;

Across the ammunition pile

The snow has climbed in sparkling combs.

You think: beyond the town a mile

Or two, this snowfall fills the eyes

Of soldiers dead a little while.

Persons and persons in disguise,

Walking the new air white and fine,

Trade glances quick with shared surprise.

At children's windows, heaped, benign,

As always, winter shines the most,

And frost makes marvelous designs.

The night guard coming from his post,

Ten first-snows back in thought, walks slow

And warms him with a boyish boast:

He was the first to see the snow.

It was very enjoyable! I need to get set up for video at some point.

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,

Old Time is still a-flying;

And this same flower that smiles today

Tomorrow will be dying.

-Robert Herrick, To the Virgins to Make Much of Time

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Had we but world enough and time,

This coyness, lady, were no crime.

-Andrew Marvell, To his Coy Mistress

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carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.

Seize the present; trust tomorrow e'en as little as you may.

-Horace, Odes

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"Timor mortis conturbat me" is a Latin phrase commonly found in late medieval Scottish and English poetry, translating to "fear of death disturbs me". The phrase comes from a responsory of the Catholic Office of the Dead, in the third Nocturn of Matins:

"Peccantem me quotidie, et non poenitentem, timor mortis conturbat me. Quia in inferno nulla est redemptio, miserere mei, Deus, et salva me." Sinning daily, and not repenting, the fear of death disturbs me. For there is no redemption in Hell, have mercy on me, o God, and save me.

Specifically, he did not teach in public in the Athenian period of his life; neither in the agora, nor in the Gymnasia (of which the Academy and the Lyceum were two). The Gymnasia were governed by somewhat strict rules, as they were constructed and operated for the training and education of the next generation of male citizens--the very future of the city-state.

Before Epicurus began his brief tenure in Lampsacus (where he developed several lasting and important friendships), he was more or less driven out of Mytilene for his teachings. This must have been an education of a kind, but there was something else to keep him on guard when he got to Athens: the memory of the trial of Socrates, on the charges of impiety and corrupting the youth. Sure, that was a century before, and maybe things change. But a century and a half before that, the Athenians sentenced another man to death, a philosopher named Anaxagoras. His crime was also impiety; he was accused of materialism (true enough in his case, though not in Socrates'), and this first thinker to bring philosophy to Athens escaped death only by being exiled from her.

And yet, in the time of Socrates, Anaxagoras' books were circulating widely in Athens and could be had in the market for a drachma. Preposterous? Certainly! But that was the point; what was said in private, or merely committed to paper and circulated, was of little enough concern to the City's elite. A brazen tongue must occasionally be silenced; the idea that animated it was tolerated to persist.

In any case, Anaxagoras (who thought, among other things, that the sun and moon were made of rock) secured his safety by fleeing to, of all places, Lampsacus! Athens went on to become an emblem of free-thought, Lampsacus, to be forgotten. That is the way of things, I suppose.

More adventures of the tortoise and the hare:

"Draw!" [literally, "Draw your weapon!] educe; from educere, to draw or to lead--second person singular present active imperative: and telum; dart, javeline, projectile--accusative singular

"Pew!" Latin "v" pronounced "u", "oo"

"Haha! I am the swiftest of all! celerrimus; superlative of celer, "swift", so "swiftest": omnium; from omnia, all things--genitive plural: sum, I am

"Slow and steady..." adverbs, both are vocative and singular

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This is my translation; feel free to educate me! (late Middle English: from Latin educat- ‘led out’, from the verb educare, related to educere ‘lead out’)

Also: Torquatus section on Mathematics and Geometry (very brief):

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[72] Was he the man to spend his time in conning poets as I and Triarius do on your advice, when they afford no substantial benefit, and all the enjoyment they give is childish in kind, or was he the man to waste himself, like Plato, upon music, geometry, mathematics and astronomy, which not only start from false assumptions and so cannot be true, but if they were true would not aid us one whit towards living a more agreeable, that is a better life? Was he, I ask, the man to pursue those arts and thrust behind him the art of living, an art of such moment, so laborious too, and correspondingly rich in fruit? Epicurus then is not uneducated, but those persons are uninstructed who think that subjects which it is disgraceful to a boy not to have learned, are to be learned through life into old age!

And;

Infinite mathematical detail at the subatomic scale;

Fractal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://scholarship.claremont.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1316&context=jhm

I recall reading this article some time back, some parts of it may be worth discussing.

Don, do you think there is a connection between 'elements' in that sense and the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:18?

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

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And not least we did this for those who are called foreigners, though they are not really so. For, while the various segments of the earth give different people a different country, the whole compass of this world gives all people a single country, the entire earth, and a single home, the world.

-Diogenes of Oenoanda

Happy Earth Day!

"I am not the least afraid of death."

Charles Darwin--presiding here in stone over the main hall of the Museum of Natural History in London--died on this day in 1882. His last words were recorded by his children;

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I am not the least afraid of death. Remember what a good wife you have been to me.

Charles Darwin was no Epicurean. This thread just...is what it is!

Hmmm...

Here was my original thread on the subject:

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The Long Neglect of William Short

Here's an interesting thought; what do we actually know about this guy?

Judging from Mr. Jefferson's letter in reply, we may infer that William Short, like Jefferson, positively identified himself as an Epicurean. Cassius' recent reading of Frances Wright's other work has me thinking that there might be gems hidden here as well.

He was a talented, capable, brilliant protégé of Thomas Jefferson, and a deft hand at diplomacy. He forsook the dream of a high and polished political career in his…

Joshua

October 5, 2020 at 6:48 PM

Here's a secondary source:

https://www.vqronline.org/%E2%80%98-very-human-portrait%E2%80%99

And a passage from that source:

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In 1790, on a cold and windy day some time before the French Revolution had turned on liberal nobles such as the due, William and his love were out canoeing on a pond by the Seine when Short dove overboard and nearly lost consciousness in saving a boy from drowning in rapids. The hero had then returned to the due’s chateau, dined, “quaffed old Malvoisie & other wines to a degree that astonished everybody,” and played chess “with great success,” before drifting into a sweet sleep.

Thank you for all of this, Marco! A while ago I posted something to the forum written by one of Stephen Greenblatt's critics. She (a Christian interested in medieval theology) wrote that Epicureanism was never widespread after the Renaissance, or even before it.

Never widespread in antiquity!? This can only be attributed to a failure to examine the evidence. Thank you for providing some of it here!