Posts by Joshua

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What is blessed and imperishable that is not a god?

mellis dulci flavoque liquore..."the sweet yellow liquor of the honey"...

Well, it's imperishable anyway. Depends what we mean by blessed I suppose!

I really am impressed with Bailey here though! I like it more each time I read it.

I give Bailey the palm for clear and concise English, well written and very readable.

I like DeWitt's translation for sound philosophy; the gods are "incorruptible" as opposed to "immortal", blissful by their own lights rather than blessed by something else. I quibble only with that word "creature". What is it doing there? Since it literally means "created thing" it seems out of place in what is otherwise very careful diction.

I feel the same way about the word "divine" in Strodach.

Then there is this question of 'movements' vs 'feelings' vs 'emotions' vs something else.

I voted DeWitt. I would only change two things about his translation. Replace 'being' with 'nature', and replace 'a weak creature' with 'what is weak'.

Thank you Don for all of your work in bringing the information here!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubricati…script%20making.

Red lettering in manuscripts is called Rubrication, more at Wikipedia.

Florilegium seu gnomologium Epicureum

"Epicurean anthology or collection of sayings"

Fascinating that they translated ἀνθολογία (anthologia)--"Flower words"--directly into Latin as Florilegium--"Flower words" again. In both cases really meaning a collection of poems, epitaphs, maxims or sayings.

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Could it be for Dis (the name of Pluto?)?

That's very likely part of the equation!

Note the word potuit, used here as well as in Lucretius: Tantum potuit religio suadere malorum. "So potent was religion in persuading to evil deeds."

So that the power or ability to know the causes of things--a power given by philosophy--is balanced against the power we give to superstition through fear and ignorance. The power of knowledge allows us to trample fear, fate, and the dread of death.

It is the gift of Epicurus to the world, as Lucian indicates:

"The fellow had no conception of the blessings conferred by that book upon its readers, of the peace, tranquillity, and independence of mind it produces, of the protection it gives against terrors, phantoms, and marvels, vain hopes and inordinate desires, of the judgement and candour that it fosters, or of its true purging of the spirit, not with torches and squills and such rubbish, but with right reason, truth, and frankness."

Thoreau saw the figure of Epicurus in Lucretius as a kind of Prometheus, stealing fire from the gods and giving it to man.

That's the whole significance of the Rosetta stone, being carved in two languages and in three scripts (going from memory).

Translated:

"Dis" is not part of his wife's name, but seems to relate to the word discedere, "to depart". He built the tomb after she died (departed), for both of them, as well as for their liberti, freed slaves.

Thank you, Cleveland Okie !

My only (tongue-in-cheek) point of reference for Chakras:

Last words of Brutus:

Note on the Last Words of Brutus – From Cassius Dio, Not Plutarch – NewEpicurean

And of course Lucretius, who starts his poem by asking Venus for the blessings of peace:

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Pour from those lips soft syllables to win

Peace for the Romans, glorious Lady, peace!

For in a season troublous to the state

Neither may I attend this task of mine

With thought untroubled, nor mid such events

The illustrious scion of the Memmian house

Neglect the civic cause.

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If Lucretius did die in 50 B.C. or just before that, then he narrowly escaped the seismic and bloody Roman Civil Wars of the 1st and 2nd triumvirates, 49-44 B.C.

In retrospect his plaintive call for peace on the eve of bitter war begins to assume dramatic and even tragic proportions.

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There remains a twofold question:

Are there (in the classical Epicurean corpus) any similar affirmative statements on: 1) where reasonably possible, to prevent or stop wrongful harm from being done to another (particularly someone outside our immediate friendship circle); and 2) to foster social conditions that are conducive to maximizing the possibility for enjoyment/pleasure by most people (including those that may be on the socioeconomic margins)?

Now these are somewhat more interesting questions at least to me. Per usual with Epicurus we are left with observations rather than commandments, as here;

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PD39: He who best knew how to meet fear of external foes made into one family all the creatures he could; and those he could not, he at any rate did not treat as aliens; and where he found even this impossible, he avoided all association, and, so far as was useful, kept them at a distance.

And here;

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Diogenes of Oenoanda: So (to reiterate what I was saying) observing that these people are in this predicament, I bewailed their behaviour and wept over the wasting of their lives, and I considered it the responsibility of a good man to give benevolent assistance, to the utmost of one's ability, to those of them who are well-constituted. This is the first reason for the inscription.

Dioges of Oenoanda is generally the most explicit when it comes to answering your questions, Pacatus.

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I wanted, before being overtaken by death, to compose a fine anthem to celebrate the fullness of pleasure and so to help now those who are well-constituted. Now, if only one person or two or three or four or five or six or any larger number you choose, sir, provided that it is not very large, were in a bad predicament, I should address them individually and do all in my power to give them the best advice. But, as I have said before, the majority of people suffer from a common disease, as in a plague, with their false notions about things, and their number is increasing (for in mutual emulation they catch the disease from one another, like sheep) moreover, it is right to help also generations to come (for they too belong to us, though they are still unborn) and, besides, love of humanity prompts us to aid also the foreigners who come here.

VS10. Μέμνησο ὅτι θνητὸς ὧν τῇ φύσει καὶ λαβὼν χρόνον ὡρισμένον ἀνέβης τοῖς περὶ φύσεως διαλογισμοῖς ἐπὶ τὴν ἀπειρίαν καὶ τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ κατεῖδες τά τ᾽ ἐόντα τά τ᾽ ἐσσόμενα πρό τ᾽ ἐόντα.

Bailey: "Remember that you are of mortal nature and have a limited time to live and have devoted yourself to discussions on nature for all time and eternity and have seen ‘things that are now and are to come and have been’."

• Bailey attributes VS10 to Metrodorus
• "things...have been." Quoted from the Iliad, Book I, line 70:
  • ἤτοι ὅ γ᾽ ὣς εἰπὼν κατ᾽ ἄρ᾽ ἕζετο: τοῖσι δ᾽ ἀνέστη
    Κάλχας Θεστορίδης οἰωνοπόλων ὄχ᾽ ἄριστος, 70ὃς ᾔδη τά τ᾽ ἐόντα τά τ᾽ ἐσσόμενα πρό τ᾽ ἐόντα, καὶ νήεσσ᾽ ἡγήσατ᾽ Ἀχαιῶν Ἴλιον εἴσω ἣν διὰ μαντοσύνην, τήν οἱ πόρε Φοῖβος Ἀπόλλων
  • "When he had thus spoken he sat down, and among them arose Calchas son of Thestor, far the best of bird-diviners, who knew the things that were, and that were to be, and that had been before, [70] and who had guided the ships of the Achaeans to Ilios by his own prophetic powers which Phoebus Apollo had bestowed upon him." Perseus Tufts
  • Regarding oracles, compare VS29

VS11. τῶν πλείστων ἀνθρώπων τὸ μὲν ἡσυχάζον ναρκᾷ, τὸ δὲ κινούμενον λυττᾷ.

Bailey: "For most men rest is stagnation and activity madness."

For rest or leisure, see the Latin word Otium.

Discussion Notes:

Areopagus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Areopagetica by John Milton

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Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 17 (KJV)

16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?

20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.

21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

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Paradise Lost By John Milton

His Dark Materials, a fantasy trilogy by Philip Pullman on similar themes

Reverse Copyright and the Library of Alexandria

Stoic Stories: Stoicism by Its Best Stories (Ancient Wisdom)

Stoic Stories: Stoicism by Its Best Stories (Ancient Wisdom)

www.amazon.com

His book on Stoicism.

Meet the Ultimate Hedonist

Aristippus was far more radical than the more famous Epicurus.

www.psychologytoday.com

It probably makes sense to keep tabs on this sort of thing, especially when mention of Hegesias the "Death-Persuader" is mentioned in line with our somewhat recent discussions on that subject.

A thread on that is Here. This new article isn't going to break any new ground, and little common ground either since the author is a psychiatrist who has also written a book on Stoicism.

His article on Epicureanism is Here.

Thoreau on the subject:

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Yet the New Testament treats of man and man’s so-called spiritual affairs too exclusively, and is too constantly moral and personal, to alone content me, who am not interested solely in man’s religious or moral nature, or in man even. I have not the most definite designs on the future. Absolutely speaking, Do unto others as you would that they should do unto you, is by no means a golden rule, but the best of current silver. An honest man would have but little occasion for it. It is golden not to have any rule at all in such a case. The book has never been written which is to be accepted without any allowance.

-A Week on the Concord and Merrimack Rivers

From the Wikipedia page;

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Ancient Greece

The Golden Rule in its prohibitive (negative) form was a common principle in ancient Greek philosophy. Examples of the general concept include:

"Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing." – Thales[17] (c. 624 – c. 546 BCE)

"What you do not want to happen to you, do not do it yourself either." – Sextus the Pythagorean.[18] The oldest extant reference to Sextus is by Origen in the third century of the common era.[19]

"Ideally, no one should touch my property or tamper with it, unless I have given him some sort of permission, and, if I am sensible I shall treat the property of others with the same respect." – Plato[20] (c. 420 – c. 347 BCE)

"Do not do to others that which angers you when they do it to you." – Isocrates[21] (436–338 BCE)

"It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and well and justly, and it is impossible to live wisely and well and justly without living pleasantly." – Epicurus (341–270 BC) where "justly" refers to "an agreement made in reciprocal association ... against the infliction or suffering of harm."[22]

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