1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Website Overview
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    9. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Files
    5. Search Assistance
    6. Not NeoEpicurean
    7. Foundations
    8. Navigation Outlines
    9. Reading List
    10. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Forum Shortcuts
    7. Forum Navigation Map
    8. Featured
    9. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Collection
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Calendar
      1. Upcoming Events List
      2. Zoom Meetings
      3. Fourth Sunday Meet-&-Greet
      4. Sunday Weekly Zoom
    3. Logbook
    4. EF ToDo List
    5. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
Everywhere
  • Everywhere
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Website Overview
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    9. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Files
    5. Search Assistance
    6. Not NeoEpicurean
    7. Foundations
    8. Navigation Outlines
    9. Reading List
    10. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Forum Shortcuts
    7. Forum Navigation Map
    8. Featured
    9. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Collection
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Calendar
      1. Upcoming Events List
      2. Zoom Meetings
      3. Fourth Sunday Meet-&-Greet
      4. Sunday Weekly Zoom
    3. Logbook
    4. EF ToDo List
    5. Link-Database
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Website Overview
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    9. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Files
    5. Search Assistance
    6. Not NeoEpicurean
    7. Foundations
    8. Navigation Outlines
    9. Reading List
    10. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Forum Shortcuts
    7. Forum Navigation Map
    8. Featured
    9. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Collection
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Calendar
      1. Upcoming Events List
      2. Zoom Meetings
      3. Fourth Sunday Meet-&-Greet
      4. Sunday Weekly Zoom
    3. Logbook
    4. EF ToDo List
    5. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Dedicated To The Study And Promotion Of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Godfrey
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Posts by Godfrey

  • Episode 227 - Cicero's OTNOTG - 02 - Velleius Begins His Attack On Traditional Views Of The Gods

    • Godfrey
    • June 12, 2024 at 5:59 PM

    Among other things, this data could be useful in defining "spirituality," which seems to me to be a rather vague notion.

    However, at first blush, it seems to me that the idea of the gods is more language based. But a preconception of justice or fairness might work similarly to what's described in the article.

    Just my initial reaction. Interesting!

  • Default Theme Update - June 8, 2024

    • Godfrey
    • June 11, 2024 at 2:40 PM

    I think it's Inspire Red; in my list there's nothing between that and Modern Flat UI.

  • Default Theme Update - June 8, 2024

    • Godfrey
    • June 11, 2024 at 2:04 PM

    Not visible to me.

  • Youtube Video Discussing Cicero's "On The Nature of The Gods" (Classical Wisdom Podcast)

    • Godfrey
    • June 10, 2024 at 9:00 PM

    One thing which I found interesting came later in the video as Thomas gave a heartfelt take on why the gods and religion are important: personal consolation and civic cohesion (my paraphrase). He feels that religion is necessary even if it's not actually true, and for these two reasons in particular.

    What I found illuminating, and disappointing in that the speakers seem to be completely unaware of it, is that Epicurus' take on religion addresses both of these points and attempts to improve upon them by incorporating truth as well. Although the typical discussion is whether the Epicurean view of the gods is realist or idealist, the point of view of Thomas introduces a different take, which I might call "functionalist." By removing the capricious and terrifying aspects of the gods, Epicurus makes them capable of consolation. Not by having them answer our prayers, but by serving as an example. This is pretty much the idealist view, just in the context of giving us a way to look at dealing with troubles. Encouraging his followers to attend the festivals and such serves to promote social cohesion, in addition to the potential pleasure obtained. I wouldn't be as cynical as the speakers and say that he did this to save his skin: I would say that Epicurus was aware of and acknowledged the historic role of religion in society and promoted it in his philosophy. In this context the Epicurean treatment of the gods actually isn't as mystifying as it's commonly made out to be.

  • Default Theme Update - June 8, 2024

    • Godfrey
    • June 9, 2024 at 8:11 PM

    Birth of Venus could serve as a model for a less neutral color palette, although Kalosyni 's images and palettes above in #6 are quite nice.

  • Default Theme Update - June 8, 2024

    • Godfrey
    • June 9, 2024 at 11:20 AM

    This image comes immediately to mind for Epicurean philosophy, although I haven't analyzed the imagery in detail.

    Personally I use a dark theme as I find it easier on the eyes.

  • New "Getting Started" Page

    • Godfrey
    • June 8, 2024 at 11:52 PM

    Sorry for the delay Cassius.... Here are the top and the middle of the page, in Ambience Blue style.

    Images

    • Screenshot 2024-06-08 204601.jpg
      • 260.75 kB
      • 1,832 × 998
      • 124
    • Screenshot 2024-06-08 204650.jpg
      • 288.59 kB
      • 1,839 × 960
      • 115
  • New "Getting Started" Page

    • Godfrey
    • June 7, 2024 at 9:25 PM

    What seems to me to be a much better format for the Getting Started page is a layout similar to Forum - Epicureanfriends.com.

    A major drawback for me of the Getting Started page is that the links are buried in text. My opinion is that the much more graphic format of the Forum List page is much more user friendly. In fact, the Forum List already begins with "General Information and Discussion - Start Here."

    With all the information in the forums, I think that simplicity of presentation is paramount. With that in mind, maybe even get rid of a separate Getting Started page and just commit to making it the first drop-down item in the forum list, reducing the number of pages and the amount of duplication. Replace "General Information and Discussion - Start Here" with "Getting Started." Perhaps add a drop-down item for "General Discussion" or "General Information and Discussion" but separate "Getting Started" into its own drop-down atop the list. Then perhaps move the "Private Section" down to the bottom of the list. In other words, the Forum List becomes the gateway to everything. It's graphically very clear, and I think it provides a great entry to the forum with everything in one place. I would remove the https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/getting-started/ link on the right side of the page and commit to that residing in the top item of the list.

    One thing that I may be misunderstanding is whether the links in the drop-down Forum List have to lead to a list of threads. Can they lead to a list of pages? If so, the pages could be fairly short, with simplified text and with only very specific links (perhaps to the "next step" in the getting started process).

    Anyway, I guess I really like the simplicity and clarity of the "Forum List" page. Simplicity! No duplication! That's what works best for my simple brain. I'm sure I'm exposing my ignorance as to how the software actually works, but that's my two cents as a user. :)

  • Ancient Greek/Roman Customs, Culture, and Clothing

    • Godfrey
    • June 6, 2024 at 9:13 PM

    How to Make a Ancient Roman Toga | Getty News :)

  • The Axiology of Pain and Pleasure (are they intrinsic good/bad ? )

    • Godfrey
    • June 6, 2024 at 9:10 PM
    Quote from Little Rocker

    pleasure isn't required to produce anything to justify itself. And if you think it does have to produce something, then the pleasure might lose a touch of its luster.

    Not only lose some luster, but veer into the realm of virtue/duty ethics!

  • Reopening of "House of the Bicentenary"

    • Godfrey
    • June 5, 2024 at 7:34 PM

    This doesn't relate to the House of the Bicentenary but to Pompei in general.

    Archaeologists Uncover Rare Blue Frescoes of an Ancient Sanctuary and Servant Quarters in Pompeii — Colossal (thisiscolossal.com) The link has some impressive photos and two short videos worth a look, for those interested.

  • The Axiology of Pain and Pleasure (are they intrinsic good/bad ? )

    • Godfrey
    • June 5, 2024 at 4:22 AM
    Quote from Don

    If those things "washed away the mind's fears about astronomical phenomena and death and suffering, and furthermore if they taught us the limits of our pains and desires" *then* we'd have no problem with them. But those *things* don't wash away the fears. They're pleasurable activities, and Epicurus never denies that. But those things alone won't get us down the road to dispelling fears. It seems to me he's saying you have get the fears dispelled first... then you can enjoy various "delights" unencumbered by those fears.

    Another point of view, which I may have expressed sometime since 2020, is that it's possible for pleasures of the prodigal to teach us some of these things. I presume that many of us have stories of pursuing excessive pleasures in our youth, only to begin to discover the limits of our pains and desires in the process. Or for them to teach us about death, or our place in the world pertaining to astronomical phenomena (perhaps a stupidly near-death experience, or staring at the night sky while in a state of inebriation).

    To me this can be a description of learning by experience and book learning. As psychological hedonists, this is how we learn (sorry, I couldn't resist tossing that out there 😉). So I don't read this as literally as Don , but I also don't read it as an endorsement of sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll. More as a description of the way things are. And with the caveat that I'm limited to reading it in English....

    Some (most?) of us, for better or for worse, need to make mistakes before we get to a place where the fears are dispelled and replaced with understanding.

  • The Axiology of Pain and Pleasure (are they intrinsic good/bad ? )

    • Godfrey
    • June 3, 2024 at 9:10 PM

    Might one also contest the evolutionary biology approach by pointing out that evolution occurs over such a large span of time as to be meaningless for practical human ethics?

    "Survival and reproduction" is, of course, an extremely cynical conclusion to reach regarding the value of pain and pleasure: a sledgehammer approach lacking any nuance. And anyone who seriously studies the ethics of pleasure and pain can point out that much of the value is in the nuance.

    Perhaps MP's approach could also be analyzed in terms of scale, in this case the scale of time and of numbers. A physical analogy could be the scale of the universe, of man, of atoms. An understanding of the various scales is useful, but it's necessary to have a correct understanding of how the various scales apply to the scale of a human life physically, temporally and numerically in order to make use of the understanding.

  • Movies with robots equipped with artificial intelligence

    • Godfrey
    • June 3, 2024 at 8:42 PM

    The Monk and Robot series of two books by Becky Chambers is an interesting read in terms of having empathy for a robot, and the robot having a kind of empathy for humans. It's a charming sci-fi meditation.

  • The Axiology of Pain and Pleasure (are they intrinsic good/bad ? )

    • Godfrey
    • May 28, 2024 at 9:38 PM

    Don I like how you slipped "reject" in there in place of "avoid." Your choice of rejection is growing on me...

    We can also choose or reject specific desires in addition to the actions related to them. Not all desires though!

    For example, years ago I stopped drinking sodas. I desired to stop drinking them, chose the actions involved in not drinking them and thereby, over time eliminated the desire to drink them.

  • Gabor Maté on Authenticity

    • Godfrey
    • May 28, 2024 at 11:22 AM
    Quote from Julia

    (At times like this, it still feels wild how I myself have been blind to this simple truth for so long; how that was even possible despite all the reading and reflection, despite knowing in my gut that “something isn't right”; how completely I was entrenched in what is wrong so obviously.)

    You're not alone in feeling that! You've described well what I too have often felt.

  • Episode 230 - Cicero's OTNOTG - 05 - Velleius Attacks Misplaced Ideas of Divinity

    • Godfrey
    • May 27, 2024 at 11:03 PM

    No apologies necessary: congratulations for showing up!

  • The Axiology of Pain and Pleasure (are they intrinsic good/bad ? )

    • Godfrey
    • May 27, 2024 at 8:35 PM
    Quote

    Hedonism, philosophically speaking, is “the ethical theory that pleasure (in the sense of the satisfaction of desires) is the highest good and proper aim of human life.” (Apple Dictionary)

    A case can be made that Epicurus was a psychological hedonist. That might negate MP's entire argument, although he seems to be equating that with his evolutionary angle.

    Where he is completely missing the boat (at least in the portion up to the pay wall) is by separating pleasure/pain from sensations and anticipations. Epicurus presented these three as a unified group of faculties with which we make decisions, supplemented by reason. By ignoring this fact he's taking the Ciceronian path of argument by omission.

  • The Axiology of Pain and Pleasure (are they intrinsic good/bad ? )

    • Godfrey
    • May 27, 2024 at 8:10 PM

    Oops, I thought it was all the same thing :rolleyes:

  • The Axiology of Pain and Pleasure (are they intrinsic good/bad ? )

    • Godfrey
    • May 27, 2024 at 7:18 PM

    I've downloaded the paper, although I'm not sure when I'll get to it as I've got more pleasurable endeavors lined up.

    Alycia LaGuardia-LoBianco and Paul Bloomfeld appear to be the authors, not Pigliucci.

    Just spouting off here, but this seems to me to be an example of people with completely different mindsets talking past each other. Committed Stoics seem to be wired to try to live rationally, which to them means to set aside feelings in making choices and avoidances. Whereas committed Epicureans realize that feelings underlie rationality: ignoring them is like swimming upstream with only one arm and one leg.

Finding Things At EpicureanFriends.com

Here is a list of suggested search strategies:

  • Website Overview page - clickable links arrranged by cards.
  • Forum Main Page - list of forums and subforums arranged by topic. Threads are posted according to relevant topics. The "Uncategorized subforum" contains threads which do not fall into any existing topic (also contains older "unfiled" threads which will soon be moved).
  • Search Tool - icon is located on the top right of every page. Note that the search box asks you what section of the forum you'd like to search. If you don't know, select "Everywhere."
  • Search By Key Tags - curated to show frequently-searched topics.
  • Full Tag List - an alphabetical list of all tags.

Resources

  1. Getting Started At EpicureanFriends
  2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
  3. The Major Doctrines of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  4. Introductory Videos
  5. Wiki
  6. Lucretius Today Podcast
    1. Podcast Episode Guide
  7. Key Epicurean Texts
    1. Side-By-Side Diogenes Laertius X (Bio And All Key Writings of Epicurus)
    2. Side-By-Side Lucretius - On The Nature Of Things
    3. Side-By-Side Torquatus On Ethics
    4. Side-By-Side Velleius on Divinity
    5. Lucretius Topical Outline
    6. Usener Fragment Collection
  8. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. FAQ Discussions
  9. Full List of Forums
    1. Physics Discussions
    2. Canonics Discussions
    3. Ethics Discussions
    4. All Recent Forum Activities
  10. Image Gallery
  11. Featured Articles
  12. Featured Blog Posts
  13. Quiz Section
  14. Activities Calendar
  15. Special Resource Pages
  16. File Database
  17. Site Map
    1. Home

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  • Episode 311 - Is Pain The Only Reason We Should Be Concerned About Any Aspect Of Death And Dying?

    Don December 16, 2025 at 10:26 PM
  • How the Epicureans might have predicted Lorentz time dilation

    jcblackmon December 16, 2025 at 12:41 PM
  • Episode 312 - Not Yet Recorded

    Kalosyni December 16, 2025 at 9:32 AM
  • Latest Article by Elli Pensa - The Epic of Epicurus - Ithaca and the Garden - Dialectic and The Canon

    Bryan December 15, 2025 at 9:56 PM
  • Welcome JCBlackmon

    Eikadistes December 15, 2025 at 4:10 PM
  • Good Website for Self-Help and Learning Coping Skills (dealing with depression etc.)

    Kalosyni December 15, 2025 at 11:34 AM
  • Article By Dr. Emily Austin - "Epicurus And The Politics Of The Fear Of Death"

    Cassius December 13, 2025 at 8:19 PM
  • Welcome EdGenX

    Cassius December 12, 2025 at 3:54 PM
  • Fourth Sunday Zoom - December 28, 2025 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion - Agenda

    Kalosyni December 12, 2025 at 2:38 PM
  • Epicurus vs Aristotle: the Role of Reason vs Sensation Seeking?

    Cassius December 12, 2025 at 11:54 AM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atomism
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternity
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Wisdom
      • #Temperance
      • #Courage
      • #Justice
      • #Honesty
      • #Faith (Confidence)
      • #Suavity
      • #Consideration
      • #Hope
      • #Gratitude
      • #Friendship



Click Here To Search All Tags

To Suggest Additions To This List Click Here

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design