Posts by Godfrey

Quote from Don

Now, are opinions almost instantaneous sometimes, following directly on the heels of sensations and prolepseis? Sure! I have no problem with that. Consider you're walking through the woods, your sensations register a long skinny shape on the ground, your prolepseis have identified this shape as a danger in the past (the grooves are well worn in your eye's and mind's apprehension of the shape... so the "prolepseis" slips right into the groove, metaphorically).. your reason jumps in with "Snake!" and you jump back. It is only seconds later that you realize it was a discarded rope. Your opinion was in error...

In a manner analogous to pulling your hand from a hot stove, I would interpret jumping back from the "snake" as a reflex rather than an instantaneous opinion. As I understand it (for the moment at least), opinion occurs when you realize that it was a rope, based on the additional sensations from looking at it directly. However it could be that this isn't opinion either, but instead "focusing of the mind" on the object. You have a prolepsis of a rope which somehow comes into play when you focus your mind on the object.

Personally, I'm chewing on the idea that the prolepsis comes from the infant-caregiver relationship, in addition to what you've stated. Blessed and incorruptible comes from reasoning out maximums in an infinite universe. But as I understand it, this isn't how Epicurus presented it.

Thinking of gods, and looking at babies:

A baby's parents and/or caregivers would be the model of a godlike being. But this model is more in line with the common conception of gods, providing food, clean diapers, a social model and a model of language &c. It's a very fortunate baby whose parents provide a model of blessedness and imperturbability!

Might it be that Don 's beard is actually a property, since facial hair is natural to human males? The clean-shaven faces of some of us such as myself would then be events, since if we were to stop shaving, our facial hair would return to its natural state.

This paper on ethics in Lucretius might serve as an appetizer for DRN

3-Week SASA Reading Group: The Milindapañha: A Conversation Between a Greek King and an Indian Buddhist Sage | Save Ancient Studies

This reading group popped up in my email feed, along with several others in the same email. I've never heard of this text before, but it sounds like it may pertain to this thread.

One could also dig through Lucretius, but your point stands Don.

Among other things, this data could be useful in defining "spirituality," which seems to me to be a rather vague notion.

However, at first blush, it seems to me that the idea of the gods is more language based. But a preconception of justice or fairness might work similarly to what's described in the article.

Just my initial reaction. Interesting!

I think it's Inspire Red; in my list there's nothing between that and Modern Flat UI.

Not visible to me.

One thing which I found interesting came later in the video as Thomas gave a heartfelt take on why the gods and religion are important: personal consolation and civic cohesion (my paraphrase). He feels that religion is necessary even if it's not actually true, and for these two reasons in particular.

What I found illuminating, and disappointing in that the speakers seem to be completely unaware of it, is that Epicurus' take on religion addresses both of these points and attempts to improve upon them by incorporating truth as well. Although the typical discussion is whether the Epicurean view of the gods is realist or idealist, the point of view of Thomas introduces a different take, which I might call "functionalist." By removing the capricious and terrifying aspects of the gods, Epicurus makes them capable of consolation. Not by having them answer our prayers, but by serving as an example. This is pretty much the idealist view, just in the context of giving us a way to look at dealing with troubles. Encouraging his followers to attend the festivals and such serves to promote social cohesion, in addition to the potential pleasure obtained. I wouldn't be as cynical as the speakers and say that he did this to save his skin: I would say that Epicurus was aware of and acknowledged the historic role of religion in society and promoted it in his philosophy. In this context the Epicurean treatment of the gods actually isn't as mystifying as it's commonly made out to be.

Birth of Venus could serve as a model for a less neutral color palette, although Kalosyni 's images and palettes above in #6 are quite nice.

This image comes immediately to mind for Epicurean philosophy, although I haven't analyzed the imagery in detail.

Personally I use a dark theme as I find it easier on the eyes.

Sorry for the delay Cassius.... Here are the top and the middle of the page, in Ambience Blue style.

What seems to me to be a much better format for the Getting Started page is a layout similar to Forum - Epicureanfriends.com.

A major drawback for me of the Getting Started page is that the links are buried in text. My opinion is that the much more graphic format of the Forum List page is much more user friendly. In fact, the Forum List already begins with "General Information and Discussion - Start Here."

With all the information in the forums, I think that simplicity of presentation is paramount. With that in mind, maybe even get rid of a separate Getting Started page and just commit to making it the first drop-down item in the forum list, reducing the number of pages and the amount of duplication. Replace "General Information and Discussion - Start Here" with "Getting Started." Perhaps add a drop-down item for "General Discussion" or "General Information and Discussion" but separate "Getting Started" into its own drop-down atop the list. Then perhaps move the "Private Section" down to the bottom of the list. In other words, the Forum List becomes the gateway to everything. It's graphically very clear, and I think it provides a great entry to the forum with everything in one place. I would remove the https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/getting-started/ link on the right side of the page and commit to that residing in the top item of the list.

One thing that I may be misunderstanding is whether the links in the drop-down Forum List have to lead to a list of threads. Can they lead to a list of pages? If so, the pages could be fairly short, with simplified text and with only very specific links (perhaps to the "next step" in the getting started process).

Anyway, I guess I really like the simplicity and clarity of the "Forum List" page. Simplicity! No duplication! That's what works best for my simple brain. I'm sure I'm exposing my ignorance as to how the software actually works, but that's my two cents as a user.

How to Make a Ancient Roman Toga | Getty News

Quote from Little Rocker

pleasure isn't required to produce anything to justify itself. And if you think it does have to produce something, then the pleasure might lose a touch of its luster.

Not only lose some luster, but veer into the realm of virtue/duty ethics!

This doesn't relate to the House of the Bicentenary but to Pompei in general.

Archaeologists Uncover Rare Blue Frescoes of an Ancient Sanctuary and Servant Quarters in Pompeii — Colossal (thisiscolossal.com) The link has some impressive photos and two short videos worth a look, for those interested.

Quote from Don

If those things "washed away the mind's fears about astronomical phenomena and death and suffering, and furthermore if they taught us the limits of our pains and desires" *then* we'd have no problem with them. But those *things* don't wash away the fears. They're pleasurable activities, and Epicurus never denies that. But those things alone won't get us down the road to dispelling fears. It seems to me he's saying you have get the fears dispelled first... then you can enjoy various "delights" unencumbered by those fears.

Another point of view, which I may have expressed sometime since 2020, is that it's possible for pleasures of the prodigal to teach us some of these things. I presume that many of us have stories of pursuing excessive pleasures in our youth, only to begin to discover the limits of our pains and desires in the process. Or for them to teach us about death, or our place in the world pertaining to astronomical phenomena (perhaps a stupidly near-death experience, or staring at the night sky while in a state of inebriation).

To me this can be a description of learning by experience and book learning. As psychological hedonists, this is how we learn (sorry, I couldn't resist tossing that out there 😉). So I don't read this as literally as Don , but I also don't read it as an endorsement of sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll. More as a description of the way things are. And with the caveat that I'm limited to reading it in English....

Some (most?) of us, for better or for worse, need to make mistakes before we get to a place where the fears are dispelled and replaced with understanding.

Might one also contest the evolutionary biology approach by pointing out that evolution occurs over such a large span of time as to be meaningless for practical human ethics?

"Survival and reproduction" is, of course, an extremely cynical conclusion to reach regarding the value of pain and pleasure: a sledgehammer approach lacking any nuance. And anyone who seriously studies the ethics of pleasure and pain can point out that much of the value is in the nuance.

Perhaps MP's approach could also be analyzed in terms of scale, in this case the scale of time and of numbers. A physical analogy could be the scale of the universe, of man, of atoms. An understanding of the various scales is useful, but it's necessary to have a correct understanding of how the various scales apply to the scale of a human life physically, temporally and numerically in order to make use of the understanding.