Posts by Eikadistes

While "death" is appropriate for translation, to modern English ears, it is painfully insensitive and inadequate.

I signed a living will two months ago as my wife lay dying in a hospital. I have to go with the Existentialists on this one. Death is not only the most important thing in life, it is the only thing by which we derive meaning, because, regardless of the possibility of our own cessation, death is constantly happening around us, and it is constantly heart-wrenching. The notion that death is nothing only works if we omit the definition of Death that includes us experiencing tragedy.

Quote from Godfrey

On a more prosaic note: is "dissolved" the most accurate English word? It's in most of the translations, but I keep associating it with dissolving something in water. Resolved into its elements, dispersed, dispersed into elements, broken down into atoms seem to work. Especially "dispersed into elements".

I like "disintegrated" personally.

Quote from Bryan

These are awesome Nate - thank you! What program are you using? I have not worked with AI images at all. Is Metrodorus in the mix or did I miss him? Thanks again!

I have been playing with a text prompt on the Deep Dream Generator. I have not made a Metrodorus yet:

<https://deepdreamgenerator.comhttps://http://deepdreamgenerator.com/generator>

I really think that "Death" to modern English-speakers needs to be replaced with "Afterlife".

This is how I read it:

"The afterlife in no way exists for us; for, the sense faculties disintegrate;
but the afterlife that is insensible in no way exists for us.”

And a few others:

Joshua these are really great. For a long time now I have had this idea to create prayer candles with Epicurean figures on them, expressed using symbolic imagery as has been common in the visual arts throughout the ages.

I'm thinking of making a parallel between Catholic Saints and appropriate Epicurean figures that fulfill the same sort of social, historical, or spiritual role that Christian personalities do throughout Christian history.

The following are AI-generated, which I do not consider to be my intellectual property at this point as far as art goes, so I am just sharing these to share a sort of template, or ideal that I'd like to try to fulfill in doing so:

Quote from Don

I'm late to the game here but I'm crafting a response to some of this... Just haven't had a chance to get it finished.

Quote from Cassius

It's possible we should wrap this one up for now and move to discuss PD02. Comments?

LOL! "wrap this up" Oh, Cassius is so optimistic. Maybe with the addition of "... For now"

Let's do it! I'm ready with a new line:

"The afterlife in no way exists for us; for, the sense faculties disintegrate; but the afterlife that is insensible in no way exists for us.”

Quote from Don

Quote from Nate

What is blessed and imperishable that is not a god?

"The blessed and imperishable [being a god] neither troubles itself nor others, as neither anger nor obligation afflict it; for, all of this is weak. <In other places, however, Epicurus said the gods are reached by reason, that, on one hand, [the gods] exist partially distinct; those [gods], however, made of the same consistency exist due to the continuous stream of similar images upon the self, personally, in the form of humans.>”

How's that?

Quote from Don

Quote from Nate

If I might take a whack at the task ... “The blessed and imperishable [gods] neither trouble themselves nor others, as neither anger nor obligation afflict them; for, all of this is weak. <In other places, however, Epicurus said the gods are reached by reason, that, on one hand, [the gods] exist partially distinct; those [gods], however, made of the same consistency exist due to the continuous stream of similar images upon the self, personally, in the form of humans.>”

Generally, I like where you're going, but the insertion of [gods] disguises the fact that Τὸ μακάριον and (Τὸ) ἄφθαρτον are singular, not plural. This may not be significant but then again might be. Sedley seems to imbue those singular references to the gods as referring to one's individual conception of a god.

I think I know what you're trying to convey with the ending but I got a lot lost myself there.

What is blessed and imperishable that is not a god?

If I might take a whack at the task ... “The blessed and imperishable [gods] neither trouble themselves nor others, as neither anger nor obligation afflict them; for, all of this is weak. <In other places, however, Epicurus said the gods are reached by reason, that, on one hand, [the gods] exist partially distinct; those [gods], however, made of the same consistency exist due to the continuous stream of similar images upon the self, personally, in the form of humans.>”

Quote from Cassius

We don't make a super big deal about birthdays here at Epicureanfriends but we do mark them in this thread. Today's birthday - Nate - is that of someone who plays an important and highly-appreciated role here, so please check out his timeline as a place to mark it - Nate

Thanks to my herd for the kind remembrance.

It is nice to have a Garden to which one belongs.

Speaking of Epicurean tombs, I came across another inscription that incorporates the "fui, non fui, no sum, non curo" epitaph. This inscription comes from the tombstone of a Greek Gladiator named Antiochas (c. 2nd-century BCE)

ANTIOXAΣ O ΠPIN EΦEΣIΣ.

OYK HMHN KAI ΓENAMHN·

OYK IMI KAI OY MEΛI MOI·

XAIPETE ΠAPOΔITAI.

Ἀ̣τιοχᾶ[ς] [ὁ πρὶν] Ἐφέσις.

[Ο]ὐκ ἤμην [καὶ] γενάμην·

οὐκ ἰμὶ καὶ [ο]ὐ μέλι μοι·

χ̣[α]ίρετε παρoδῖται.

Antiochas formerly named Ephesios.

I was not alive and was born.

I am no longer alive and do not mind.

Hello, passers-by!

I lean toward an excerpt from the last 10 KDs

MH BΛAΠTEIN MHΔE BΛAΠTEΣΘAI

μὴ βλάπτειν μηδὲ βλάπτεσθαι

neither harm nor be harmed.

Just a loose thought: there seems to be a general accusation of (ignorant or insensitive) inerrant Epicurean fundamentalism expressed by Philodemus taught by his teacher Zeno of Sidon. By this time, all the original Epicureans had died and the remnants of the tradition were being preserved in memory, so the question of literary canon became (inevitably) a point of question and contention, and it seems that there were those, like Zeno and Philodemus, who accepted a "nuanced" and "between-the-lines" sort of interpretation of Epicurus, versus those "fundamentalists" who (according to Philodemus) over-relied on an unnecessarily-literal interpretation of Epicurus' vocabulary ... so in accordance with Philodemus, perhaps "Bibliakoi" is inappropriate since Philodemus seems to be using it as a derogation or slur.

All of this (again) brings me back to phantastiken epibolen tes dianoias and the question of canonics.

A footnote on page 299 of the translation reads as follows: "215. The βιβλιακοί are 'Epicureans by the book,' or at least so they claimed. The school encouraged verbal disputations over the texts of the founders like those of Demetrius Laco's Textual Problems. See Sedley 1998, 62-93; and Del Mastro's (2014, 184-87) reconstruction of the title Πρὸς τοὺς φαςκοβιβλιακούς A, in P.Herc. 1005/862 (partially published in Angeli 1988a" (Armstrong and McOsker).

It corresponds with the following text from On Anger (Columns 45.16 – 46.12):

"... [45.16] so that I amazed at those who want to be textbook Epicureans [βυβλ'ι'ακοίc], that they ignored these and the things I mentioned before, and as a result tried to demonstrate that, according to our Founders, 'the sage will become wrathful.' [45.23] And their proofs that he will become enraged are very far from establishing that he will become enraged according to every notion of rage, as they ought to have, since nowhere do they establish both anger and rage as separate categories, nor that 'he (the wise man) will become angry' in the sense common (to both words), as we will show. [45.33] It is clear that both in magnitude and quality rage differs from anger and is not natural. [45.37] But they have reasoned wrongly about when anger and rage are referred to the same thing and when they are not just as they fail in their opinion about whether the sage does or does not fall into a 'rage'--I think this clear to those who have followed what we have indicated in our discussion of the subject. [46.6] So, then, having laid down these things on our own behalf and concerning us, with arguments that prove it, in support of there being a natural kind of anger, we have [indeed] replied that the sage will become angry." (Philodemus, translated by Armstrong and McOsker 2020)

I just found a vocabulary word of interest in Column 45 of On Anger: Philodemus contrasts dissident, heterodox Epicureans against orthodox, "textbook [βυβλιακοίς] Epicureans" (coming from the word βιβλιακοί or bibliakoí meaning “Epicureans by the book” according to translators David Armstrong and Michael McOsker 2020).

I think it is appropriate to refer to those of us who are "not neo-Epicurean, but Epicurean" as "Bibliakoi".

Quote from EricR

Does the philosophy change you?

Epicurean philosophy changes us the same way a pair of glasses changes someone with near-sightedness.

I also note his use of ΣΠEPMATA or σπέρματα (spérmata, "seeds") in The Lives of Eminent Philosopher X.74

This makes Lucretius' use of SEMINA more of a literal Greek-Latin translation and less of a poetic innovation.

The Church of Epicurus online hosts the Inwood & Gerson translations:

The Vatican Collection of Sayings

THE VATICAN COLLECTION OF EPICUREAN SAYINGS Introduction The Vatican Collection of Sayings is a list of Epicurean maxims. So called because they were found in…

churchofepicurus.wordpress.com

I believe I have found several places in The Lives of Eminent Philosophers, Book X where atoms are referred to something other than ἄτομος (and declensions thereof). Here are those found in Ep. Her. and Pyth.:

ATOMA — “elements” (Bailey), “particles” (Munro)

ATOMOI — “atoms” (Bailey)

ATOMOIΣ — “atoms” (Bailey)

ATOMOΣ — “atom” (Bailey)

ATOMOYΣ — “first beginnings”, “atoms” (Bailey)

ATOMΩMON — “atoms” (Bailey)

ATOMΩN — “atoms” (Bailey)

ATOMῼ — “atom” (Bailey)

Here are additional words (I believe) used in extant texts to refer to the eternal, indivisible particles, namely, declensions of μέρος (méros or "parts"), ὄγκος (ónkos or "mass"), and λεπτός (leptós or "minute").

ΛEΠTOMEPHΣ — “fine particles” (Hicks)

ΣXHMATIΣMOΣ — “atoms” (Hicks)

ΣXHMATIΣMOY — “atoms” (Hicks)

MEPIΣIN — “certain particles” (Hicks)

OMOYPHΣIN — “certain particles” (Hicks)

OΓKOI — “particles” (Hicks)

OΓKOYΣ — “atoms” or “parts” (Hicks)

OΓKΩN — “particles” (Hicks)

Have you come across any other words in ancient Greek that refer to "atoms"?