Posts by Elli

Of what I undertood by the greek epicureans the instincts as faculties that are programmed in us by Nature, and as our specie is evolved to survive are : the feelings of pain and pleasure along with the senses. From the day we are born the anticipations or preconceptions are connected with the concepts of the words on things, and more complex concepts - always based on materialistic reality e.g justice, as well as they all are measured by the senses and the feelings in accordance with the experience of the reality. And in the duration we are learning our words of our language, the mind is making an image of every thing we have learned. So, we keep in our minds as a memory the concepts of all the words of the things, and issues, to be in our mind as pre-conceptions. All these are accordance with the reality and our experiences (always measured by the senses and feelings), and in the duration we are speaking the mind picks all these up. The problem that comes out is when the preconceptions are based on true or false. The preconceptions will be false if they contradicted by the phenomena of the reality, and they had not be measured by the senses and the feelings. And they will be true if are proved by the phenomena of the reality measured by the senses and the feelings.

IMO on the issue of preconceptions goes the talent too e.g. if someone can play a piano or be able to learn many languages. This goes to the neurones (cells) of the mind, that are genetically formed in such a way (synapses) by heritage of the genes. But even the man that has any talent has to practice his talent to be more talented. Epicurus had had the talent to observe the Nature carefully, but also had had all the written works from his ancestors as philosophers. In the duration of his life and with the help of his friends, he managed to clean them up from confusion, Myths and all these things that were, and still are against the reality of the phenomena, and our goal of pleasure. His way of thinking is called "manifold way" that is based on probabilities of the phenomena searching out the causes that caused them. His "swerve" of the atoms is based on his observation that in Nature there is not only a cause with a result, as Democritus and others claimed, but in Nature there are many causes and many results, since the three factors that are created all the things are and the need, and chance and the swerve (as our free will). For the Canon and the analogy we can read many things in the book by Philodemus "on signs".

Hello to all the epicurean friends,

Thanks to a friend of my son that knows very good greek-english, this article by George Kaplanis, it will be ready to post it for next week. Another article by Dimitris Altas entitled : "The Epicurean Impact on Enlightenment", it will be ready too for this week. The other that follows in the list it will be the article by George Kaplanis entitled : "The Migration issue from the perspective of Epicurean philosophy". If there is another article that kept to your attention and you would like to be translated, please inform me. As well as if you have an article by your own, and you would like to be translated from english into greek, please inform too.

Thanks.

A Man’s Neighbor And His Dog

I have a story to tell you about a man’s neighbor and his dog, but first I would like to share with you some thoughts on Epicurean Doctrine 40: “As many as possess the power to procure complete security from their neighbors, these also live most pleasantly with one another, since they have the most certain pledge of guarantee, and after they have enjoyed the fullest intimacy, they do not lament the previous departure of a dead friend, as though he were to be pitied”.

The last ten of Epicurus’ 40 Doctrines end on a very important topic: “justice.” Many people ask, however, why this doctrine ends with a death of a friend? Why should we not lament a friend as though he were to be pitied? What did Epicurus mean?

In answering, I would like to connect this doctrine with a statement by Dimitris Liantinis, and perhaps this will help us understand what Epicurus had in mind when he established his Garden as a smaller society within a larger one:

Liantinis said: “Being Hellene (i.e. Human), means that as long as you live, you celebrate with your neighbors the sun and what makes us human. And that you struggle with your companions to tame the land and the sea. And when you are dead, to have your friends gather round to share their memories of you, drinking fine old wine, and singing of you.”

The phrase by Epicurus “to live most pleasantly with one another, and enjoyed the fullest intimacy with one another” Liantinis gives in the form “a mutual celebration in life.” Where Epicurus writes of “the power to procure complete security from your neighbors” Liantinis sees “a mutual struggle with your companions to tame the land and the sea.” Epicurus proposes to us that in order to feel secure from the dangerous events of Nature (the land and the sea) you must first feel secure from your neighbors. As a consequence of these relationships, the conclusion for both Epicurus and Liantinis is: Do not pity a friend when he dies, but celebrate his memory drinking fine old wine and singing of him. A whole life is measured by the experiences in that life, and friendship by a relationship of mutual benefit, and such persons have indeed experienced the goal of pleasurable living.

The experiences in our lives, especially friendship, are the strongest evidence by which we measure our feelings of pleasure and pain. Thus we can understand why people who live apart from one another feel loneliness and depression, and we can understand the deep effects that arise from the kinds of societies we build.

Many years ago a doctor friend of mind related to me a story based on personal experience:

“My friend Elli, he said to me, some years ago I moved into a new neighborhood. The house was nice and comfortable. The natural surroundings were wonderful and lovely. I was sure that my eyes would enjoy the trees changing leaves with colors in accord with the seasons. My ears would enjoy the musical sounds of the small stream next to my home. What else could I ask beyond living in such a neighborhood? But these things he mentioned are not the most interesting aspects. It is shortsighted of us to see only the natural surroundings of a house without caring to examine the people who live nearby. The pleasures of eyes and ears and the perfect images that I had in my mind were quickly replaced with new images that came my way, and feelings of pleasure were quickly replaced with feelings of pain.

What happened to cause me to say that?

Within two months I had observed that in my new neighborhood all the people closed their doors, stayed inside to watch television, and lived like sheep in a corral. They trusted no one and nothing. No one spoke with one another. And what did I find to explain their lack of caring?

I soon learned that in my neighborhood there was a particular man – in fact my next door neighbor. Soon after I had moved into my new house, I had asked him for his telephone number, but he never in return for mine. Imagine, my friend told me, this neighbor had a wife and four children, and I, a doctor, had offered my phone number in case they had a medical emergency. “No,” he refused – he did not want to be obliged to me or have good relations with his neighbors.

What could explain this? I soon observed and learned.

My Neighbor was the first man that I saw with my own eyes torture his own dog. My Neighbor made her sit outside in the sun and snow, without shelter all year long! My Neighbor fed his dog only with occasional pieces of bread! When I chose to give this poor creature a little food, and My Neighbor saw me to do that, he told me that his dog was fine without the food I brought for her. And when I saw all these things, I told him politely that he was torturing this poor creature and must stop, and that he should at least build for her a small dog house to be protected from the weather conditions. I also asked him if it would be all right for me to give to his dog a little food. His reply? My Neighbor stopped speaking with me at all!

The situation with the poor dog continued and continued, and one day I said to him that if the situation did not change someone would call the police, as Greek law is very strict against maltreatment of animals, with fines up to 10,000 Euros. And what did My Neighbor do?!

My Neighbor took his dog somewhere else, and I have never seen the dog since!

What I have seen, however, is that My Neighbor last year celebrated “a religious event of Easter,” and he did not hesitate to slaughter a little sheep in the middle of the street in our neighborhood -- making the blood to flow like a river!

My neighbor is also the man who has a chicken farm in the middle of our neighborhood. One night he started shooting with his gun like a madman to kill a fox that was eating his chickens! Another neighbor who feared the shooting called the police, and the policemen took his gun, but they did not arrest him. Probably he begged for mercy from them with excuses that he had a family with four children, so he was more fortunate than his dog, who could not speak to beg for mercy.

My Neighbor is a man who resisted arrest for himself, but did not mind that he chained his female dog so that every male dog that passed by could mate with her. From the first day I moved into that house the dog was barking all the time screaming for help. For the two years I was there I saw that female dog with two litters of puppies – and what happened to them? My Neighbor left them without food, and all they died with their little bellies swollen from hunger!

At the end of his story my friend asked me – Elli, the church tells me to love My Neighbor as myself. Was that man really My Neighbor? Should I be required to love him and treat him as myself?

With that I return to Epicurus’ 40^th Doctrine. What kind of a man tortures his dog and withholds from her all pleasures of even a dog’s life? What kind of man refuses to celebrate with others the joys of life, the sun, and those things that make us human?

Who would struggle along with that man to tame the land and the sea? And when that man dies, who would celebrate his memory drinking fine old wine and singing of him? Or in reverse, whose life would that man celebrate?

As Epicurus said, justice is not the same for all people and all nations. Justice is not a matter of absolutes – just is a matter that arises between real people and real circumstances, all of them different. Epicurus said this plainly in his Doctrine 32: "For all living things which have not been able to make compacts not to harm one another or be harmed, nothing ever is either just or unjust; and likewise too for all tribes of men which have been unable or unwilling to make compacts not to harm or be harmed".

To my friend, and to everyone who reads this little story, I would say the same thing:

The only way we can hope to experience the promises of the 40^th Doctrine – that of living life most pleasantly in the fullness of joy with our friends -- is to follow the 39th Doctrine and realize that it is not because someone comes near to us for a moment in time that they become My Neighbor, and deserving of our love and friendship.

Epicurus wisely chose as his last doctrine of the most important for us to remember if we are to live happily – and he tells us to be very careful about the circumstances in which we choose to live, and whom we choose to be Our Neighbors:

"He who desires to live tranquilly without having anything to fear from other men ought to make them his friends. Those whom he cannot make friends he should at least avoid rendering enemies, and if that is not in his power, he should avoid all dealings with them as much as possible, and keep away from them as far as it is in his interest to do so."

Christos my friend, with respect and with frankness of speech

In this video I have noticed some remarkable things to comment to you: In your speeches either from you or the honorable doctor mr. Chrousos, I did not hear to mention something about our goal (i.e. our alpha and omega) that is pleasure; and as Nature has set for us. In the end, you did say that the goal of life of the Epicureans is to live in bliss (=eudaemonia) with Virtue and Justice. However, if we do not connect Bliss, Virtue and Justice with the pleasure (see Doctrine 5) are becoming abstract words without meaning; and the worse is that maybe lead the minds to that disgusting philosophy of the stoicism. Since, and the stoics speak about bliss or happiness, Virtue and Justice...

Moreover, Mr. Chrousos repeats in the video that the goal of Philosophy and in extension the goal of the Epicurean is to find the truth. Yes, what is the methodology that we shall be based on for finding the truth ? Is the methodology of the Canon ?

Finally, the honorable psychiatrist Mr. Panayiotis Georgakas speaks in the end about some katastematic "values"...does Mr. Georgakas mean the katastematic pleasures ?

Anyway, I understand that your time was not enough to develop more of your thoughts concerning the Epicurean Philosophy. However the goal, and the methodology are the most important things to mention for our philosophy, just to offer in any public, what and where is the obvious ! Isn't it ?

Thanks in advance for your attention

My best regards with epicurean friendship ?

Elli

Doctrine 5. It is not possible to live pleasantly without living prudently and honorably and justly, [nor again to live a life of prudence, honor, and Justice] without living pleasantly. And the man who does not possess the pleasant life, is not living prudently and honorably and justly, [and the man who does not possess the virtuous life], cannot possibly live pleasantly.

It's my pleasure...to serve only the one wise monarch and a king of philosophy : Epicurus !

From Epicurus’ Description of the Wise Man, by Diogenis Laertius.

In my opinion the procedure would go like this :

The epicureans will teach things that are clear, rather than doubtful musings ==>The epicureans will show a regard for their reputation to such an extent as to avoid being despised ==> So, the epicureans will not hesitate to go to the courts===> But IF the epicureans want to go the courts, first thing first is to observe carefully the phenomena : IF the laws are still beneficial and if the justice is serving the pleasure of all the people of the community. If not, then the procedure will start again from the beginning : "The epicureans will teach things that are clear, rather than doubtful musings. And this means "the enlightment" i.e. to create such kind of people around, just to be able of making a new social contract with such agreements and laws to not harm each other.

VI. (6) "In order to obtain security from other people, there was (always) the natural good of sovereignty and kingship, through which (someone) once could have accomplished this". This translation comes from the ancient greek to newgreek by Archontia Liontaki, member of the Garden in Athens.

-------------------------------------------------------

As we know Bailey et.al erased some words in the above Saying.

However, in Epicurus’ Description of the Wise Man, by Diogenis Laertius, we observe :

31. The wise man will appease an absolute ruler when occasion requires. (translation also by Cyril Bailey)

I find the above as unaccurate translation ! What means "will appease" and what means "when occasion requires" and what means "absolute ruler"?

I've read from the ancient greek text, by DL : "Ο σοφός και μόναρχον εν καιρώ θεραπεύσειν".

New greek translation : Ο σοφός σε μια ευκαιρία θα υπηρετήσει ακόμη και βασιλέα/μονάρχη .

In english my translation is : the wise man in an occasion, will serve even a king/monarch !

--------------------------------------------

The greek words used are :

"θεραπεύω" that in ancient greek means "I serve" someone or an art or a science, and NOT "I appease".

"καιρός" (occasion) literally in greek means "the right time ; and alas, if you let it go or let it pass through your attention".

"μονάρχης" in greek means the monarch or the king and NOT an "absolute ruler".

More free translation for the above 31 is : "The wise man will observe the phenomena and if there is the right time he will realize it right away, even to serve a king or monarch. in my opinion that motto "Lathe Viosas" is a cunning and came after, just to be spreaded around, so deviously."

My favorite one, since Metrodorus speaking ...

Welcome @jnamiotka and thanks for joining us. Just a little curious to ask you : the texts of the book you're teaching at school are in the new greek or the ancient greek ?

"There are no epicurean wars" ... IMO the wars are not a matter of labeling as epicureans or platoneans. The wars are an issue that is based on the nature of all things.

Epicurus when he was 18 years old, he went to serve the greek army. His exhortation of "Lathe Viosas" then , it is only because he already saw, knew and lived all the consequences of wars and how painful they are. So, he warned us with his "lathe viosas" to not be provocative of any war and stole the territories of our neighbors with their natural and necessary. But in a situation of a danger, he would advice us to defend our natural and necessary and not living like slaves to anyone. Moreover this is not a situation based on a duty. This is a situation based on a danger and in any situation of a real danger the sentence is formed like this : <<either They or We>> and nothing third.

I quote here an excerpt by George Kaplanis founding member of the Epicurean Garden of Thessaloniki.

"Created easily one overwhelming impression that Epicurus was calm, gentle and benevolent, and this is correct, as is confirmed by Diogenes Laertius. However if we assume that the shape of Epicurus comes up “straight in the eyes” and against some tough and dangerous reality, a situation of life or death, then how would we imagine Epicurus?

Rather awkward and passive? Maybe a little Stoic ??

I convey only two sentences of Epicurus, and an extract of his letter to Idomeneus, on The Urgent Need for Action (Seneca’s Letters – Book I – Letter XXII)

It reminded me like we watch in the TV the wildlife documentary:

"..... You will attempt something only when you can attempt it in appropriate circumstances and in the appropriate opportunity. But when comes the right opportunity, you be ready to grab it....", "When you contemplating the fleeing prohibited to stay empty-handed ... there is a hope for a way out even in the most difficult situations, if not in too great a hurry before your time, nor too dilatory when the time arrives.... "

This is the psychological structure which allows the survival in harsh conditions. The soul of the warrior as connected with instinct, and the strategic thinking. The Goddess Athena emerges behind Epicurus.

It is remarkable in the battle at Salamis Aeschylus claims that as the Persians approached (possibly implying that they were not already in the Straits at dawn), they heard the Greeks singing their battle hymn (paean) before they saw the Allied fleet:

ὦ παῖδες Ἑλλήνων ἴτε

ἐλευθεροῦτε πατρίδ᾽, ἐλευθεροῦτε δὲ

παῖδας, γυναῖκας, θεῶν τέ πατρῴων ἕδη,

θήκας τε προγόνων: νῦν ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀγών.

O sons of the Greeks, go,

Liberate your country, liberate

your children, your women, the seats of your fathers' gods,

And the tombs of your forebears: now is the struggle for all things.

Hi Nal, nice to meet you here.

This was my mistake too. I counted 10 days after the new moon that it started this year 17th of January, but as Diogenis Laertius reports is 7 days after the new moon in the month Gamelion, thus Epicurus birthday - for this year - was yesterday the 23 rd of January.

Thanks