Elli Moderator
  • from Thessaloniki, Greece
  • Member since Nov 24th 2017
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Posts by Elli

    Sorry, Bradley but I do not agree totally with you. Plato and his teacher Socrates did not lead the Greeks to a mental disease. Evidence ? The Athenians punished Socrates to death with the hemlock. Plato suffered too in the court of Dionysus at Syracuse and caught as slave, and then he returned to Athens, as a miserable old man. In ancient Greece there was the punishment to those that provoked to people mental disease, because the ancient greeks did not bite lies easily. Something that does not exist in our days, since then came the plague of abrahamic monotheistic religions with their strong basis that is the stoicism. Abrahamic religions that had copied- pasted stoicism totally are feeding - till our days - the people with more lies than Plato and Socrates did in their era. And if we want to be precise there was and an Epicurus for cleaning up the mess of those philosophical ideas. Where is the punishment to the buffoon that took over the half - and much more of the half - of the nations of the world ? Tell me where is the desire of the people to punish e.g. those that hold the Financial Banking System that has strong basis, and spreading the confusion of the stoicism ? Imagine Epicurus and the ancient Athenians to hear that : [The chief executive of Goldman Sachs, which has attracted widespread media attention over the size of its staff bonuses, says he believes banks serve a social purpose and are “doing God’s work.”] .

    Where is the anger of the people and the punishment when they hear such a provocative phrase that goes against to their mental health? For this, the whole planet and specially the western world is focusing to your Nation first, the huge and great America, waiting the consequences of any punishment if there is any ! We are waiting your nation to born again a new Thomas Jefferson. We are waiting till now for changing your current that writes : "in god we trust". Read of what one of your presidents had said for this phrase : {...}My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good, but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege.{...}Any use which tends to cheapen it, and, above all, any use which tends to secure its being treated in a spirit of levity, is from every standpoint profoundly to be regretted.{...}it seems to me eminently unwise to cheapen such a motto by use on coins{...} In all my life I have never heard any human being speak reverently of this motto on the coins or show any signs of its having appealed to any high emotion in him, but I have literally, hundreds of times, heard it used as an occasion of and incitement to{...}sneering{...}Every one must remember the innumerable cartoons and articles based on phrases like 'In God we trust for the 8 cents,'{...}Surely, I am well within bounds when I say that a use of the phrase which invites constant levity of this type is most undesirable.{...}" - Theodore Roosevelt, November 1907

    I found this post to FB in many greek profiles of my friends.

    The area that is now «Notre Dame» was an island, and on top of it was built the temple of Zeus Carneus by Tiberius Caesar Augustus. It was then the center of the French-Romans. For to visit the temple there were sailors with boats who carried the pilgrims and protected the Temple. Then Paris was called by Romans Lutetia. A column that was found writes : "To Zeus Carneous, Carnous" for the Celts.

    In 1710, during the construction of a crypt underneath the temple of «Notre-Dame», a column dedicated to Zeus with the foundations of a Roman temple that was dedicated to Zeus. This was first published by Baudelot de Dairval in 1712. /referenceworks.brillonline.com/.../baudelot-de-dairva..., and testifies the excavation.
    The column is dated by a dedication of the Roman Emperor Tiberius Caesar August who took over his emperor in year 14.
    The Roman temple was dedicated to Zeus and existed there before the advent of Christianity.

    The column of the temple is called "the column of sailors" of Parrasia or Parisias.
    The column says:
    "During the reign of Tiberius Caesar Augustus, to the High and Great Jupiter,
    the Parisian sailors raised this column with public money.

    The origin of the French Parisians comes from a breed known as the Parrasians who were people of Arcadia. The 15th-century Italian humanist and poet John Baptist Mantuanus writes that: the Parrasians, who led from a place of Arcadia by Hercules, came to France, where they settled and gave to the nation the name of Paris.
    With the advent of Christianity, the temple
    of Zeus was destroyed and to its place Christians built 4 temples before «Notre-Dame».

    Cassius Liantinis never said that he was an Epicurean. He was more as an eclectic, for this sometimes his views are controversial like Nietzsche's. Liantini's admiration was for Ionian philosophers, for Nietzsche, for Socrates, Plato and Aristotle and not for Epicurus especially. But for Epicurus and his philosophy, he had pointed out some good things, but he did not study epicurean philosophy as a whole like you and me, and many others.

    Hello to all the friends. The limits on pain and pleasure are personal. Liantinis was a Spartan, and as a Spartan he matured with the idea for keeping Thermopylae. This idea/prolepsis/preconception/anticipation was stuck to his mind in all of his life. He thought that his action to end his life was an action to protest against those issues that we live today in Greece and are producing to our society a lot of pain. Maybe Liantinis decided that to escape from something that produced to him a lot of pain. Maybe Liantinis thought that his action was a heroic and brave action. It is the same with Georgakis who was born in my home-island and had set himself on fire in the middle of a square to Genova, in Italy to protest against the dictatorship that was then, in Greece.

    For Georgakis now, my compatriots made a big statue placing it to a square in my home-island. This is the prolepsis/anticipation/preconception that had been stuck in Georgaki's that was measured by him on the basis of his experiences and the circumstances. And as Liantinis did , he saw, he measured, and he decided. And by the way Metrodorus says :

    47. I have anticipated thee, Fortune, and entrenched myself against all thy secret attacks. And we will not give ourselves up as captive to thee or to any other circumstance; but when it is time for us to go, spitting contempt on life and on those who vainly cling to it, I will leave life crying aloud a glorious triumph-song that we have lived well.

    Liantinis decided that was the time for him to go and of what his 15,000 students at the university confirm, they say that he lived well as he also remarked many times to them that life is a GREAT GIFT. Of course I do not say that this idea is good or bad. I do not moralize and this issue. I do not say that the christians were disgraceful when for a name of a god threw themselves to the lions, as they say. Anyone is free to offer and taking whatever he likes in his life. And everyone is free to make his hedonic calculation. But for me, frankly as an Epicurean the issue of survival is a great issue, and of course the pleasurable survival is the greatest issue. So I consider hostile whatever is against to my pleasurable survival, and of course, this goes in extension to my family, friends and my society. Maybe Liantinis started his values from the end : the society, the friends, the family and the last was himself. These are the greeks they count upside down. But if someone would place me a question to give my life to save my children or my close friends this is another issue to talk about seriously for putting aside myself. Because I keep in mind those two sayings.

    56. The wise man feels no more pain when being tortured himself than when his friend tortured.

    57. On occasion a man will die for his friend, for if he betrays his friend, his whole life will be confounded by distrust and completely upset.

    Diogenis of Oinoanda where are you to hear that ?? Your huge inscription in the middle of Agora was an anti-intellectual bullying !! FRANKNESS OF SPEECH is a great achievement of the free and brave men and is used by the Epicureans too for speaking FREELY for any idea, and for any persons that saying any idea. Frankness of speech is not an anti-intellectual bullying!

    And now I wonder... from which country does Matthaeus come from ? From North Korea ? US First Amendment states that: “Congress shall make no law abridging freedom of speech or of the press.”

    Jews cultivated the land of faith. Greeks cultivated the land of knowledge. Jews were absolute, Greeks were critical. Jews were relentless, Greeks were deferential. This is why the Jewish world prevailed over the Hellenic. The weapon of choice was Christianity, an illegitimate and heinous outgrowth of the main body, rejected by Jews themselves, but which obliterated classical Greece nonetheless. What could not be accomplished courageously, was achieved via fouler means. This is reflected in the traditional Greek folk tale of Digenis Akritas, the famous hero of Acritic Songs. The tale tells of how Death spotted the young hero and from a distance, struck at his heart and took his soul. ( Dimitris Liantinis “Gemma”)

    I have chosen to put both my feet in one boat and not in two, since this is dangerous. I do not fly on that winged ram that had golden fleece to fall again in Elliespontos, as a greek Myth says. So, now I'm sailing on the Hellenic archipelagos for staring at Homer and Odysseus who was the cleverest man of all. These are my Myths and their evolution are Democritus and then Epicurus who never had a need of any church. The only he had was a Garden and friends, many friends. Not like Christ with traitors like Judas Iscariot and those “friends” in Gethsemane, who abandoned their teacher ALL of them. These are the examples : traitors, abandonment, sacrifice and a lot of PAIN. Why ? Because Christ's teachings are for little boys that are afraid the darkness of death…

    Philosophically speaking Christ did not die on a Friday on the hill of Golgotha, but on a Wednesday, at the Mount of Olives. In solitude, abandoned by ALL, somewhere far removed. It was at the time when his sweat was like drops of blood, and when, with tears in his eyes, he whispered “My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death”. It was then and there that the dice were cast, and that was his fear of death. And the fear of death of a jewish god continues with illusions and resurrections.

    Beauty and virtue and such are worthy of honor, if they bring pleasure; but if not then bid them farewell! - Epicurus

    The following is an excerpt from the book entitled : “Stoa and Rome” by Dimitris Liantinis, as translated by me:

    The destruction of Hellenic and Roman civilization and culture in general, ladies and gentlemen, has been done by the ZERO!

    Yes! Do not be amazed – by the ZERO ! By an abysmal hating ZERO which had for its target : the HUMAN and the BEING!

    The destruction of the Hellenic and Roman civilization began from an old, paralyzed, and impoverished STOICISM, which through the dark catacombs ripped its clothes to fight that which is the most beautiful humanity ever created, as it crackled its teeth from hatred for the Joy of Knowledge and the Beauty of Life!!

    And for all those things that humans created with their culture, and it was yet so hard to study! In medieval times, this ZERO tortured by the Inquisition the study of Nature and manliness of Science.

    This is indeed the “ODIUM GENERIS HUMANI” (Hatred of the Human Race) as Tacitus said.

    “Knowledge,” you say? “Blessed are the poor in spirit,” we shall say!

    “Beauty, health and strength,” you say? “Lame, crippled, paralyzed, and blind,” we will say!

    “Love,” you say? “The tortures of hell and more are waiting for you at the moment of your death, we say!

    For honor and glory answered by inconspicuous and humility. The last would be first, they said! The pride and the honor propounded by the humiliation and abashment! Blessed you will be when they mock you, persecute you and backbiting you, they said!

    The taste of the mouth and the delicious food responded with fasting and the locusts in the desert! The beauty of feelings and pleasures of life responded to the remorse of the flesh and the denigration of bodily expression! Slandered the flower of youth, and became a virginity and a chastity for the symptoms of Neurosis ! Freud saw too much and suffered to revive some of his patients and illness people!!

    In joy and sparkle in the world and the intoxication of spring responded to the gloom and the black of widow! Blessed are the mourners, they told!

    Finally, hunger, thirst and injustice, the longing of a christening justice are vanished with a surfeit of hungry and with a foggy dream!

    Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness, they said. – “- Husband, I’m dizzy from the hunger// – Shut up, you will eat in the sky//, as the greek poet Kostas Varnalis said ironically, in one of his verses..].

    A question to Liantini's wife by the translator of his book "Gemma" : He is particularly scathing when it comes to religion. And yet he chose you, a theology professor, to be his life partner. And you accepted him as your husband when you knew he was openly against the church. Could you comment on this apparent paradox?

    And the answer by his wife : It may seem paradoxical but it isn’t. The first obvious answer is that when two people fall in love they do not check what their degrees were in. Indeed, my PhD was in Theology but I have been studying philosophy since I was 24. Most of my academic publications, lectures and distinctions, have been in the subjects of Introductory Philosophy and History of Philosophy, as a Professor at the University of Athens. It is true that Liantinis attacks the clergy and all religious regimes in his work. The constant refrain to all our discussions was the phrase «Religions will destroy the world». The fanaticism that these relegions inspire and which we continuously experience on an international level was what he feared would bring about this downfall. But the existence of this concept of divinity or god was of interest to him philosophically and this is apparent in all his writings, including Gemma. And as a conclusion to this apparent contradiction that you mentioned, may I say that my theological studies were never a problem in our living together because he himself, even though he was not a theology major, had extensively studied the Old and the New Testament in their entirety, adding his own footnotes, and his personal library contains a number of theological writings that he had obviously studied.

    A question to Liantini's wife by the translator of his book "Gemma" : A surface reading of his book "Gemma" will lead some readers to conclude that the author was an anti-Semite. Was Liantinis an anti-Semite? If not, it is likely that he suspected that a lot of people would misread his writings – just as it happened with Nietzsche whom he so appreciated. Do you believe there could be a reason that Liantinis might have willingly allowed this interpretation as well?

    And the answer by his wife who had studied theology and philosophy at the University of Athens: The characterization «anti-Semite» is mistaken. Liantinis appreciated the circumstances and capabilities of the Jews. What he was primarily concerned about was stressing in every possible way the differences between the Semitic and the Hellenic spirits, because it is well established that the Greeks founded philosophy and the Jews religion. But that the Jewish spirit in its long historical trajectory had a negative role to play with regard to the Greek spirit, until this day, was something that was a source of great pain for him. He stresses that point in the chapter «The Hellenic Greek». I do not know whether he intended to allow this way of interpreting his writings, but of course, every reader has a subjective appreciation of the passages and their own individual way of critically assessing them.

    <<The despisers of the body, according to Nietzsche, or as Diogenis of Oinoanda calls them "following the empty beliefs of the soul and not listening to body appeals." And how disgusting, an Epicurean feels towards the body despisers.

    Like Plato, through Socrates, in Phaedon, whereby death the soul is freed from the body as if it is free from the shackles.

    But also the Stoics, who accept the material existence of the soul, fought against Hellenism, but in their own oriental way. This strict philosophy of Stoicism, which allowed joy only when one did his duty, became the ideal of Christian monasticism through Nile Sinaiti who copied the Handbook of Epictetus and established it as a preparation for the monastic life. The absolute determinism and strict discipline of the Stoics influenced the Christianity of the Protestants and Kant was affected by it. (Christos Yapijakis Epicurus Principal Doctrines p. 60). The "Duty" of Kantian idealism has been experienced by mankind in a harsh way>>.

    (The above is an excerpt of the work entitled :<< “father” Epicurus>>, by George Kaplanis founder of the Epicurean Garden in Thessaloniki).

    The"disgraced" dead man with the name Dimitris Liantinis, who when was alive, was a great teacher to the teachers for their studies on "HELLENICA", he is repeating the above message in every eon.