Elli Moderator
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Posts by Elli

    The deep issue and question for me is who was passionate by feelings of love and of life in this movie ? And the person that tips more the scale is the musician, but not totally as he did wrong choices from the beginning till the end. No, he was neither the alpha male in the movie nor that kind of man who knows how to get what he wants and desires from a woman's nature, and from life in general. He appears to be so impatient for the right convergence with that woman, and the necklace was a symbol to hurry up the whole situation, for buying time, hers and their common.

    As I said above the husband for me was the worse of all. Because he replaced the PASSION of love with the PASSION of playing cards. Because he did not offer to his wife PASSION i.e. the passionate emotions for life and love. Such a stoic personality, as the husband was, is not be able to offer true feelings and vibrating the emotions of a woman... any woman actually. A scene that he was asked by his wife to not play cards for a night does not show to me that he was passionate of love for his wife, and my impression is that this was from the first days or months in their common life, and till the end. For this his wife chose for cheating on him.

    Slowly and by the personality of his husband this wife became an emotionally cold woman, a woman that was frighten to recognize her feelings, to the extent to not be passionate neither with the musician.

    Sorry, but I am not totally in favor with the wife too. She was an emotionally cold and non passionate one, and to commit suicide for ending her life was the evidence. If someone feels the nothing, in the end, prefers the nothing. Because as far as I know when a woman is a true female nature, and when she is in love, she turns upside down the whole world to be with the one she loves.

    Did you ever seen in your life a passionate from love woman ? She is doing like a singing and dancing volcano :P

    and as that song says :

    I am a woman in love and I do anything

    To get you into my world and hold you within

    It's a right, I defend

    Over and over again

    What do I do...

    However, this fatalistic woman who has been stuck to the abstract goal of virtue, with her choices and her fears, led her for not being able to recognize her feelings and emotions, and in the end, she not only destroyed herself, but another man, and especially the musician who killed another person for her. His husband as he was a stoic apathetic nature, he was living in total ignorance by the goal of virtue, and the playing cards was to cover his illusions and his subordination to his job, to his master and to life in general. The only that was vibrating his emotions was the playing of cards, and a spectacle in a circus (what a miserable spectacle with enslaved animals that is preferred by miserable personalities indeed). The last scene with the husband breaking his wife's picture and leaving it on the floor, was the right scene to show us how miserable and apathetic personality he was.

    My conclusion is : the Musician's action to offer to this woman, and from the first moments of their meetings, such an expensive gift was the first his wrong doing. Their first meetings were based on a thing, and not in passion of love and pleasurable or painful conversations for their past, their present and a perceptiveness of a future. Such expensive gifts do not lead to true feelings of love, and I'm positive about that. The bird inside the cave was a symbol of the enslavement of all, and the expensive necklace was the symbol of a thing that as expensive as it is...it was not able enough to replace true passionate feelings of love. All the persons in this movie were all disturbed, they did not feel true joy and pleasure, and they were choosing the NOTHING. All they were dead as the bird in the cave.:(

    Thus, for the end for this movie we have the final ES 81. "The disturbance of the soul cannot be ended nor true joy created either by the possession of the greatest wealth or by honor and respect in the eyes of the mob or by anything else that is associated with or caused by unlimited desire".

    Cassius, hi! Yesterday night I managed to watch this movie. It is a masterpiece of a movie that plays with figures, music and things as symbols.

    The bird inside the cave was the real meaning as a symbol. All they were living as enslaved birds inside their caves. Slaves in their caves, that these caves were made by themselves, and for themselves. No one was free to fly, no one was free for doing a swerve changing whatever was painful in their miserable society. That gossip lady was the symbol of the society. The hypocrite and the curious that puts nose to the affairs of other peoples' life. Strange that this gossip lady was not presented as a religious too.

    Prudence that is higher than philosophy, as Epicurus says, is totally missing from all of them. Nobody measured properly and prudently among pleasure and pain. Their "ypolepsis" =false idealistic opinions were stuck inside their heads for making them to not doing a hedonic calculus, to enjoy their life, for living in happiness.

    - The husband : was the most stupid-stoic personality in the movie. The slave stoic that did his duty to his master (see how he collects the cigar of his master when this falls down). The husband replaced the feelings of love and pleasure with his wife, with the gamble of playing cards. And in the end as it seems he would replace the gamble with the alcohol. Life for him was a circus, he wrote it in his shirt. A circus that all were living as enslaved animals, and he was the first in the list.

    -The musician-lover : From the beginning he did know where he was getting involved with : a married woman that refused definitely to be next to him, and living with him, for enjoying the life with him. His gift to her with the necklace with pearls is symbolic. We do not give gifts (external things) to gain the feelings of love and pleasure. We love and be loved due to our personalities, and we are proud of what we have achieved through ourselves. And in the end, that musician killed the banker, for destroying his life, and for living as an outlaw.

    -The banker : was the predator that wanted to gain feelings of love through blackmail. This is the same way as he wanted to gain money, he wanted to gain feelings of love and affection. For him, what was the figure of the lady-human and what was the business and money was the same thing. RES !

    -The woman : the fatalist stoic who had the idea that her apathetic and miserable husband was her safety and convenience. Alas, the figure of his husband was her death. Because he declared to her, when she talked to him about that lady in the upper floor who was cheating to her husband and as she returned back to him...he told her that that wife was a hussy.

    And the goal ? Virtue above all ! No one had achieved the goal of pure pleasure that is a FEELING that has for its principles the common benefit of friendship, the frankness of speech, the freedom, the bravery, and safety!

    Mousikos I'm glad to hear that you were in Thessaloniki for your studies in Theology. If there would be a case to visit again the city of Thessaloniki, I'll be glad to introduce you to the friends of epicurean philosophy in the Garden. But I would like to warn you for something : words as "global", "globalism" or "cosmopolitan", "cosmopolitanism" are not such kind of words that they like too much. They prefer to say words as "ecumenical" or "humanistic" or "international". Let's examine why ?

    “Philopatrea ( = the love for one’s country) - an epicurean virtue”, by George Metaxas


    I would like to cause some of your thoughts on the issue of “philopatrea”.

    First, let's do not get into the trouble of definitions.

    If we would apply the Platonic method (method of any systematic philosophy) we have to search for the definition of “country”. Then, for the definition of “friendship”. Then we would be wondered of what concept may this includes into the composite for the definition of "philo-patrea"? We would discuss for many hours, and if we end up somewhere, this would be so general and vague, whether there would be a case to be useful too. Epicurus, does not practice us in systematic fastidiousness. He is not interested for concepts "in themselves", but how these concepts, through the experience, are intervene in our lives. His way is characteristic of how he handles with some other higher concepts (i.e.. dreams, soul, gods, etc.). He is merely says that our knowledge for all these abstracts concepts is "obvious" (This is the triumph of sensations!).


    He gives a rough, always natural materialistic, explanation of their nature and this is enough for him to begin his calculations and measurements. Because his purpose is to dispel the illusions and the phobic prejudices that these abstract ideas are based on. But we said many as a prologue. Let's follow the way of our Teacher and let's go to our main subject.


    Epicurus shows philopatrea as a virtue. The need that is to be satisfied is the sociability, and it’s a physical need. Because, according to Epicurus, and throughout the Hellenic Cosmotheasis, the human is the man who is living in relationship with his social environment. Mysticism, oracles, occult, isolationism, asceticism are foreign in the Greek thought, and the Epicurean teachings. Thus, the satisfaction of the human’s need for living with the likes is the satisfaction of the need to come into contact with familiar people, places, behaviors and the relevant ones. And the satisfaction of this need brings pleasurable feelings indeed. Thus, with the perspective “philopatrea” is worthy as an epicurean virtue and a mean that leads to pleasure.

    But philopatrea presupposes some other things. We read in Lucius Torquatus : “The same account will be found to hold good of Courage. The performance of labors, the undergoing of pains, are not in themselves attractive, nor are endurance, industry, watchfulness, nor yet that much lauded virtue, perseverance, nor even courage; but we aim at these virtues in order to live without anxiety and fear and so far as possible to be free from pain of mind and body. The fear of death plays havoc with the calm and even tenor of life, and to bow the head to pain and bear it abjectly and feebly is a pitiable thing; such weakness has caused many men to betray their parents or their friends, some their country, and very many utterly to ruin themselves. So on the other hand a strong and proud spirit is entirely free from anxiety and sorrow”.


    The first that is "cowardice", is rejected as it brings pain. The latter that is "courage" is desirable, because brings pleasure.


    From all these we can make a conclusion: The Epicurean man is international and humanistic, but he is not without country and a cosmopolitan.

    Over the years the dominant ideologies (of -isms), have attempted to nullify the concept of homeland. Both economical they examine the man, as a unit either the consumer herd or to be in a struggle among classes.

    And both they fought the concept of homeland. "Money has no motherland, one says and the other says that the proletarians have no country. Philopatrea is marked as primitive by the former and petty prejudices of the latter. As it concerns the modern "nation-nihilistic” teachings, that tinned our head, they have shown us their ugly face. The wars that had been spread in the Balkans and in the East, the racial and religious hatred that are cultivated for their economic, exploitative interests, showing the empire of barbarism that build when they propagandize the Globalization.


    Some clarifications: “Philopatris”(patriot) is someone who loves and defends his homeland in a great danger, but without despising and humiliate the homelands of the others. Patriot is one who loves his ancestral habits, the culture of his homeland, but not the monomaniac who does not recognize foreign habits and foreign cultures and the many well worth that are including. And these are self explanatory, if you think that philopatrea as a virtue cannot be in contradiction with other qualities (in this case with the wisdom and justice).


    Before we finish with these thoughts let us answer two questions :

    And where does fit the ecumenical friendship?

    But, obviously, the friendship of people who have fulfill their personality, and are such kind of persons, that are emotionally deprived from the pleasure of friendship from the familiar places, things, people, that in parallel they imply and deepen it, to the friends and from other the countries. Instead, the epicureans extend the friendship to their relatives and the friendship to the homeland, for expanding and multiple their emotions. If you are not familiar with the nearby how would you feel about the distant by? That is to say that the Epicurean philosophy does not come to maim the human being, but making him to be emotionally richer.


    The next question is : What do we do now in Hellas?

    On each occasion, we express our feelings of philopatrea. We are looking to find within the financial crisis its justice. We resist to the insults and threats with bravery and courage. We fight for the laws with prudence. No matter how much effort and as much agitation sometimes this would bring, we are pleased because we focus to the pleasure as described by our friend Lucius Torquatus: "...a strong and proud spirit is entirely free from anxiety and sorrow”.


    This speech was in the 4th meeting of the epicurean friends of the Gardens in Athens and Thessaloniki that was held in the event of "Promethea" 2011.

    Mousikos Welcome here, and I'm glad to hear that you're a Greek teacher and musician. But the most important that I am glad is that all your intellectual "adventures" led you to the right place for sharing with us Epicuru's philosophy. :)

    Writing in Italian to Michele, I remembered a movie of 1963 that is entitled in Italian "Il Gattopardo", in English is “The Leopard", by director Luchino Visconti, based on Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa's novel of the same title.

    If there is a case for Cassius to watch that movie or if he is already watched it, I would like to have his opinion and comments, and especially if he finds that the protagonist Burt Lancaster is an epicurean personality or not. :)

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    (Thrice and with capital letters) WARNING : THE VIRUS IS INSIDE OUR SOCIETIES...THE VIRUS IS INSIDE OUR SOCIETIES...THE VIRUS IS INSIDE OUR SOCIETIES...There is the danger of that virus to lead our societies to collapse again from the plague/cancer that are the religions<==> ideologies...and that is because we the doctors i.e. the epicureans did not manage yet to bombard with healthy cells that disgusting VIRUS. Thus, this VIRUS is capable in any time and in any place to inflict with illnesses any healthy body that exist in our societies. Where are those capable doctors-epicureans for spreading the health around ? Where are they ? What do you do not understand ?!

    P.S.1. I have an impression that these doctors-epicureans are inside the society of France . My only hope comes from French people that have among them and a Michel Onfray who established and his "popular University" that gives birth to the "yellow jackets"of our days. For me the French are the bravest people in EU that can bombard with healthy cells that disgusting virus. French are the great enlighteners that take actions and in practice… neither italians nor greeks nor germans nor english nor even Americans will start what is going to be here and after. English and Americans have a strange bond that is based on their common same language. A strange relationship of "hate and love" in the same time that does not permit them to see clearly the general picture. English speaking persons are incapable for the time being to change any situation that hurts and theirs and us in our western societies.

    Please keep your patience for seeing the second French revolution that will be different from that in 1789, because people have learned to measure differently. France and french people are my great hope for leading our children to healthier societies... and then do not be amazed when the greeks will follow in that revolution, and then do not be amazed that Americans will follow, and then do not be amazed that Russians will put their final signature. In the end that virus will collapse and will not exist anymore. And this probability in the picture, that comes by Diogenis of Oinoanda will be a REAL FACT ! It would be that time when we, the homo-sapiens will evolve to homo-deus. Someone would say that I speak like an idealist...No, I am not an idealist...I am a probabilitist, I count with the usage of the manifold way of the epicurean Canon. The establishment of a new religion will be the human beings themselves. The homo-deus will know the art to live like a god among gods, and not men.

    And then, neither French, English, Americans, Russians, Greeks do not exist with these national names anymore… They will exist as home-deus. Who will be the philosopher that will put his final signature ? Nietzsche of course, that his philosophy is based on 90 % to our teacher Epicurus ! The real Nietzsche and Epicurus and not the misunderstood will put their final signature … These two and both of them are the sperm to born the homo-deus and the overman !

    “I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?
    All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment...
    Behold, I teach you the overman. The overman is the meaning of the earth.Let your will say: the overman shall be the meaning of the earth! I beseech you, my brothers, remain faithful to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poison-mixers are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying and poisoned themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so let them go.
    Once the sin against God was the greatest sin; but God died, and these sinners died with him. To sin against the earth is now the most dreadful thing, and to esteem the entrails of the unknowable higher than the meaning of the earth...
    What is the greatest experience you can have? It is the hour of the great contempt. The hour when your happiness, too, arouses your disgust, and even your reason and your virtue.
    The hour when you say, 'What matters my happiness? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment. But my happiness ought to justify existence itself.'
    The hour when you say, 'What matters my reason? Does it crave knowledge as the lion his food? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'
    The hour when you say, 'What matters my virtue? As yet it has not made me rage. How weary I am of my good and my evil! All that is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'

    "Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman--a rope over an abyss...
    What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end: what can be loved in man is that he is an overture and a going under...

    "I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
    Alas, the time is coming when man will no longer give birth to a star. Alas, the time of the most despicable man is coming, he that is no longer able to despise himself. Behold, I show you the last man.
    'What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?' thus asks the last man, and blinks.
    The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small. His race is as ineradicable as the flea; the last man lives longest.
    'We have invented happiness,'say the last men, and they blink. They have left the regions where it was hard to live, for one needs warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him, for one needs warmth...
    One still works, for work is a form of entertainment. But one is careful lest the entertainment be too harrowing. One no longer becomes poor or rich: both require too much exertion. Who still wants to rule? Who obey? Both require too much exertion.
    No shepherd and one herd! Everybody wants the same, everybody is the same: whoever feels different goes voluntarily into a madhouse.
    'Formerly, all the world was mad,' say the most refined, and they blink...
    One has one's little pleasure for the day and one's little pleasure for the night: but one has a regard for health.
    'We have invented happiness,' say the last men, and they blink."

    from Nietzsche's Thus spoke Zarathustra, p.3,4,5, Walter Kaufmann transl.

    PS. 2 Someone would say that Nietzsche was a German. Yes, Germans are the people that are able to measure differently and properly now, and will be very proud that gave birth to a Nietzsche !

    Best regards

    Elli XXX

    The same as above are going to the Italians. Popes and catholicism is the main core in their life. Italians are sleeping and waking with the same obsession of a dream...waiting their death in anesthesia and apathy for another life after death. Italians do not take any clue what the popes and cardinals are doing inside the Vatican or elsewhere in the world. Italians did not get angry and even when they hear that there is sexual abuse by catholic cardinals to the little children. Any society that does not defend its little children i.e. the great hope of our future, is a society of a great decadence. Italians prefer to count the algorithm on the desires and in the same time, they do not defend any little children, they do not defend their constitution or the worse are incapable to establish a new one. And me, I am waiting that the religion will born again the ideology of fascism of Mussolini that will collaborate with the new fascist Hitler. The fascist Hitler will conquer again the poor Mussolini. And both of them will lead the Europe...and the whole world to a WWIII and disasters. What will be again the result ? A great PAIN. So, the majority of Italians, and greeks do not chose a pain here and now, that is the defend of the little children, and their constitution with such laws for the purpose to lead them to a greater pleasure...they chose the apathy, the indifference and the anesthesia. So, the italians and the greeks put out their eyes with their own hands. What a great "pleasure" is to put out your eyes with your own hands...because VIRTUE is above all. Which Virtue of popes, cardinals and patriarchs that collaborate with the traitors politicians ? Give me a break !!

    An example and the evidence : IF THE MAJORITY of the Greeks won't be christians all the traitors will be tarred and feathered in the middle of the square of Syntagma (syntagma means constitution). Christians do not defend any constitution, and are incapable to establish a new one. Because and this old constitution we already have, it starts and has strong bond with "the name of the holy trinity". So, the majority of greeks are waiting in anesthesia and apathy their death, since they believe they will live in happiness to another life after death. :P

    Meanwhile nobody thinks that the algorithm on the desires is synonym with the <<self-sufficiency>>, and nobody thinks that << self-sufficiency>> is synonym with <<freedom>>, and nobody thinks that <<freedom>> is synonym with <<bravery>>, and nobody thinks that <<bravery>> means also <<generosity>> i.e. the art of offering to and taking from the likes in my society. Nobody thinks that the art to offer and taking is synonym with the <<common benefit>> and nobody thinks that the <<common benefit>> makes us <<autonomous>> and nobody thinks that <<autonomy>> means to establish new social contracts if the old ones have such laws that harming us.

    Study of Nature <==>self-sufficiency<==>freedom<==>bravery<==>common benefit<==>autonomy<==>social contracts with fair laws<==> PLEASURE for ALL.

    If the above have not all these bases for any enlightenment that lead to political actions for making the people living in pleasure and happiness...I wonder, what else could be ? :thumbup:

    Imagine, for example, that I give great importance to the algorithm of the desires and succeed pleasure from there, but I give a little importance to the study of Nature. What would be the results?

    My cup of life would have holes to permit the entrance of PAIN. Because without the study of Nature the notions that : "a god created the universe" (platonists-stoics-christians) or "the best to promote is the contemplation of god" (Aristotelians-stoics-christians) or "fate and necessity is the endless chain of causation" (platonists-stoics-christians) or "virtue is above all"(platonists-stoics-christians), or "do your duty subordinate, compromised and in apathy" (stoics-christians) or "there is another life after death" (platonists -christians)... while I count the algorithm on the desires, some devious others will do their filthy job in my society, and I will be the responsible to lose and even my natural and necessary. So, while I give great importance on the algorithm of the desires - without studying Nature properly - all of my desires will lose their fixed bond and main core that is pleasure to disappear for making me a good stoic-slave or worse a good buddhist for searching the Nirvana.

    And as our epicurean friend George Kaplanis from the Garden in Thesalloniki says: "Epicurean philosophy protects itself with consistency. This is its self-defense. If someone tries to change one piece with another piece from elsewhere, it will end up in nothing. If not something worse than nothing".

    "I think every explanation without the core that exist in "Lathe Viosas" it is something just to talk about. Everything in the epicurean philosophy has a fixed bond with pleasure. Lathe Viosas serves the pleasure, and it has the pleasure in its foundation, i.e. inside its core. If you follow the "Lathe Viosas" and you end up compromised and subordinate, then the pleasure is lost and "Lathe Viosas" loses its core and disappears".

    Τhe greek epicureans and specially those in the Garden of Thessaloniki insist on the methodology (see the scheme in the attached picture)...

    Let's see the picture :

    It concerns the Epicurean philosophy.

    The more the person is concerned with the study of nature,

    the more he succeeds fearlessness,

    the more he uses the measurement of pain and pleasure.

    These two produce pleasure that belongs to the individual, (because pleasure belongs to the one who feels it, of course).

    At the same time, however, the person practices the art of sufficiency

    which is improved with the study of nature

    and the more one achieves self-sufficiency,

    the more freedom he acquires and thus greater the pleasure it provides to the individual.

    Let's not insist on completeness of the analysis (which anyway does not exist), but in the method.

    It includes the general picture. We can later move to the rest which are the multiple causes of human happiness. We can combine the rest. Then, we are going to see what emerges from the composition of the rest. In a more compound form we will observe the rebound and feedback. The more this process provides pleasure to a person, the greater the desire to study the Nature. The system does not use the law of excluded middle, i.e. pleasure or no pleasure, fearlessness or not fearlessness etc, but uses the Epicurean Multi-valued way where the above causes constantly get different values depending on the decisions and our actions. Imagine, for example, that I give great importance to the fearlessness and succeed pleasure from there, but I give little importance to self-sufficiency. So, depending on the general activity at a certain time, one cause will affect the other continuously taking different values and all the separate data will pulsate and will affect one another until the system settles and **perhaps** I wish that calmness means Katastematic pleasure of the individual. The system is dynamic, it is evolving like the nature and covers the needs of the Epicurean philosophy, which observes things as they proceed and as Diogenes of Oenoanda writes (in response to Peripatetics) this flow, flowing as he says, can be scrolled quickly but not so fast as not to conceive a situation of it.

    Sorry, Cassius I do not have this book in my home now. There is in my son's home. It is a greek edition that I do not remember many details. Long time ago I had scanned this photo with the eagle and the snake, because our friend George Kaplanis used it for one of his articles. :)

    This fight among two moralities i.e. the bravery and slavery is given inside a Nietzsche's book with graphics. The picture is with a brave eagle that wants to fly free onto the skies and a snake that tightens its body. The snake's body is made of sheep that always are connected with the slave morality... if the snake-sheep will manage to choke the eagle then the sheep will go inside the sheepfold for eating their stupid-grass and waiting for their slaughter...8o


    From a tv show and at 40.40 minutes there is a remarkable excerpt of a conversation between the journalist Mr. Pantelis Savvides and the Dean of Theology at the Aristotelian University of Thessaloniki Mr. Miltiades Konstantinou.

    - Μr. Konstantinou: Whoever reads the gospels will notice carefully that all the discussions that Christ does with the theologians of his era are on this: who is the true Israelite…

    - Mr. Savvidis: Who is?

    - Mr. Konstantinou: He who truly respects the Law of God. And Christ always gives his own interpretation in all these conversations every time. Therefore, here comes Christ saying: I tell you the authentic interpretation of the Law (of God).

    - Mr. Savvidis: So, Christianity is a continuation of Judaism...

    - Mr. Konstantinou: An evolution of Judaism ... yes, from somewhere it starts ...

    - Mr. Savvidis: That is, Christianity is a development of the Judaism…

    - Mr. Konstantinou: Certainly, Christianity is another version of Judaism…

    (We repeat thrice the absolute acceptance) : Certainly, Christianity is another version of Judaism… Certainly, Christianity is another version of Judaism… Certainly, Christianity is another version of Judaism… 8o8o

    Sorry, Bradley but I do not agree totally with you. Plato and his teacher Socrates did not lead the Greeks to a mental disease. Evidence ? The Athenians punished Socrates to death with the hemlock. Plato suffered too in the court of Dionysus at Syracuse and caught as slave, and then he returned to Athens, as a miserable old man. In ancient Greece there was the punishment to those that provoked to people mental disease, because the ancient greeks did not bite lies easily. Something that does not exist in our days, since then came the plague of abrahamic monotheistic religions with their strong basis that is the stoicism. Abrahamic religions that had copied- pasted stoicism totally are feeding - till our days - the people with more lies than Plato and Socrates did in their era. And if we want to be precise there was and an Epicurus for cleaning up the mess of those philosophical ideas. Where is the punishment to the buffoon that took over the half - and much more of the half - of the nations of the world ? Tell me where is the desire of the people to punish e.g. those that hold the Financial Banking System that has strong basis, and spreading the confusion of the stoicism ? Imagine Epicurus and the ancient Athenians to hear that : [The chief executive of Goldman Sachs, which has attracted widespread media attention over the size of its staff bonuses, says he believes banks serve a social purpose and are “doing God’s work.”] .

    Where is the anger of the people and the punishment when they hear such a provocative phrase that goes against to their mental health? For this, the whole planet and specially the western world is focusing to your Nation first, the huge and great America, waiting the consequences of any punishment if there is any ! We are waiting your nation to born again a new Thomas Jefferson. We are waiting till now for changing your current that writes : "in god we trust". Read of what one of your presidents had said for this phrase : {...}My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good, but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege.{...}Any use which tends to cheapen it, and, above all, any use which tends to secure its being treated in a spirit of levity, is from every standpoint profoundly to be regretted.{...}it seems to me eminently unwise to cheapen such a motto by use on coins{...} In all my life I have never heard any human being speak reverently of this motto on the coins or show any signs of its having appealed to any high emotion in him, but I have literally, hundreds of times, heard it used as an occasion of and incitement to{...}sneering{...}Every one must remember the innumerable cartoons and articles based on phrases like 'In God we trust for the 8 cents,'{...}Surely, I am well within bounds when I say that a use of the phrase which invites constant levity of this type is most undesirable.{...}" - Theodore Roosevelt, November 1907