Posts by Hiram

So my neighbor Fran, who has for years considered himself an Epicurean after reading my book, now says he considers himself "agnostic"--that he is OK with "not knowing" (presumably, about God).

He has said this to me after having experienced with mushrooms, and having enjoyed subsequent ecstatic states of mind after his experience, which opened his mind to a whole new reality. I did not try to change his mind, simply have been listening, and he is a friend first and foremost regardless of his views.

It seems to me now that he has equated Epicureanism as a form of atheism (although I think he knows it isn't), and I wonder if he sees Epicureanism as an "ism", a dogmatic and somewhat closed-minded philosophy insofar as it is separate from his recent experiences and he seems to have difficulty reconciling them with E-ism.

I wonder also if this association between philosophy and "sober reasoning" (as per the L Menoeceus) means (to some people, at least) that Epicureanism makes irrational / ecstatic experiences difficult to assimilate. I always thought that, in its embrace of FEELING, E-ism actually promoted these experiences.

Either way, it seems like pious or religious experiences (even natural ones, like the ones induced by mushrooms) can be powerful enough to swerve someone into a new path. I think the times we live in require new, coherently Epicurean explanations of mysticism that are based on the study of nature. The ancient ones (where divine photons from outer space interfere with our mind) are not, in my view, convincing. There is need, I think, for a new set of theories of mysticism.

I have a feeling this is what happened when Zeno of Sidon taught (among his students was Philodemus) as a Scholarch, and it is said that he rejected the tradition of memorizing the teachings verbatim in favor of innovation and discussion with his contemporaries of other philosophies.

There is mention of a series of controversies between the orthodox Epicureans and the "rhetor" Epicureans around this time.

It is curious also that this happens around the time that both Philodemus and Lucretius are propagating the philosophy in Italy. The transmission from Greek to Latin language speakers required translations, explanations of things, and evaluations of meanings that required novel approaches in teaching. It would have been far easier for native Greek speakers to continue with the practice of repeating and memorizing the doctrines, but speakers of other languages had different learning tasks that were more complex and went beyond memorization.

Also, we know that Zeno of Sidon opened the school and discussions to Cicero and to thinkers of non-Epicurean persuasion and had friendly relations with them. This indicates a willingness to be self-critical on the part of the leaders of the school, and it may have inspired much of Philodemus' work (which was written in response to critical voices).

So it is here, at this junction, that the practice of repeating and memorizing saw itself naturally challenged, and the model of teaching was revisited broadly--when Zeno of Sidon was the Scholarch just before / during the times of Philodemus.

https://www.academia.edu/12472017/Epito…1_2015_pp.22-54

Over the last weekend, with the help of my neighbor and friend, I painted my apartment. It was a tiresome process. We worked for more than 13 hours on Sunday. In order to make the labor more pleasant, we played 80s songs. When the process was nearly over, he reminded me that the amount of work he did over the weekend was proof of how much he loved me. The last time I had a friend this warm was during my college years.

After the chaos of re-inventing my space completely over the weekend, I feel like we created new memories, and I also feel that the space reflects an inner change in me and in my life. Now, when I look at the new colors of my walls, I am reminded also of my friendship and the warmth, familiarity, and love, which found a token in the act of painting itself. The Havamal attests to the importance of giving friends concrete tokens of our respect and love.

Quote

With presents friends should please each other,
With a shield or a costly coat:
Mutual giving makes for friendship
So long as life goes well.
Stanza 41, Havamal

The Havamal also says that when friends do not complain about the distance they travel to see each other, that is also a proof of true friendship, so there are other ways in which friendship can be made concrete, tokenized. And it says that not everyone who smiles at us, or who laughs at our jokes, is a friend.

The takeaway here is that friendship requires concrete tokens, concrete, direct, unmediated experiences, to grow and to be true friendship. (This can be time spent, favors done, words of advice imparted, etc. not just "gifts"). They act as proof, as evidence, of the friendship that is there, but also cement it and build memories. I've frequently talked about the importance of making philosophy tangible, the same goes for friendship.

Happy 20th !

https://theautarkist.wordpress.com/2019/08/20/hap…althy-emotions/

https://theautarkist.wordpress.com/2019/08/20/hap…althy-emotions/

Dubitator314 welcome to the group. I wrote a review of Lanpe s book : http://societyofepicurus.com/cyrenaic-reasonings/

Ants are collectivist up to the point where they give their lives for the colony ... but mammals are not. The key to understand Epicurean ethics is in PD 20: nature should not be forced. The move from is to ought is not experienced by sentient beings as strongly as some philosophers seem to think. What Epicurus is saying is that we should follow our nature.

Also E says that from time to time we will see a sage giving his life for a friend or loved one. The way this passes hedonic calculus is that we love the person so much that without them life is not worth living. Metrodorus also said we go through great pains for friends because we wish to avoid the pain of not having them.

https://www.academia.edu/30730375/The_C…of_Epicureanism

These matters, I think, have been discussed before when we have talked about MEANING, as in how philosophy gives us meaning, or gives our lives meaning.

The key is that (this was not discussed by Philodemus even in his scroll "on death", probably because it does not have to do with death), but we experience a certain pleasure as a result of weaving ourselves into a tradition that belongs to all of humanity, or a portion of it. This is a form of transcendence, of participating in something larger than yourself, which is what working for the Epicurean teaching mission does. There is pleasure in studying philosophy together, and in the friendships we create, and these works of literature are a side product of these pleasures.

I've read that the reason why people lose their appetite when they're sick is because the body conserves all its energy for healing / for the immune system to use. Digestion takes up a huge amount of energy, so by giving the stomach a break, the body does not have to use its energy for digestion and instead works to get rid of toxins.

There's also research on cancer patients and how fasting, together with juicing, helps to diminish the side effects of chemotherapy. So again, it goes on healing mode (the shamans of most ancient peoples also use fasting, so apparently this is a very ancient practice).

https://www.academia.edu/221594/Epicurus_dying_wishes

https://www.academia.edu/16006034/Epicu…oric_of_concern

https://www.academia.edu/34657274/Epicu…_True_Pleasures

http://societyofepicurus.com/hermarchus-on-…ent-of-animals/

https://www.academia.edu/25627889/Philo…ing_Perceptions

http://societyofepicurus.com/on-nature-books-xxv-and-xxviii/

this reminds me of On Moral Development, where Epicurus refers to the fully mature character as "finished product", and a character in the process of moral development as a "developing product"

http://societyofepicurus.com/synopsis-of-ep…al-development/

Also Epicurus did give instructions on innovation so presumably the founders considered EP as an evolving phenomenon, inevitably (and the assignation of authority to the CANON also seems to indicate this: the five senses, pleasure-pain faculty and anticipations are the ultimate arbiters of reality and of values, not Epicurus).

http://societyofepicurus.com/epicurus-instr…-on-innovation/

https://www.academia.edu/37209892/Epicu…and_the_Virtues