Well Hiram I think the point in issue in this part of the discussion is the part of Marx that is devoted to "class warfare" and the historical determinism that everything in human history derives from that conflict. A quick google indicates as:

"the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggle." (The first line of communist manifesto (1848) reads.)

I am sure others ( Martin ) have a much more recent handle on that than I do.

I gather that what Ben was reading into Wilson's speech is that she reads Lucretius' history lesson as supporting the class warfare theory of history.

I think Ben thinks that's a gross misreading of Lucretius, and I would agree. The whole "economic man" orientation of Marxism, which is what I gather drives a lot of their analysis, is not something that's consistent with Epicurean theory, as it is not the issue of how to deal with money and material goods that drives the philosophy, but the basic orientation that tells us what money and which material goods to pursue in the first place.

Actually this is very close to the issue we are discussing in several threads. If we strip out the underlying physics and epistemology and theory of pleasure, and go right to the "live frugally" part, then we can make Epicurus look like almost a twin of Marx, and that is what a lot of people seem to want to do.

I think that's a terrible mistake and turns the philosophy on its head, and the way to avoid it is to stay with Epicurus and focus on the physics and the epistemology and then the discussion of what pleasure and virtue are all about, and only THEN move to the issue that is involved in Vatican Saying 63 -- because it is in fact as great an error to live too frugally as it is to live to luxuriously.

Welcome @davidarm ! When you get a chance please introduce yourself and let us know your background and interests in Epicurus!

Great! Keep us posted. I am going to restart and work with a much smaller file and see if I can generate something

OK if it takes a long time then maybe I am good! I will let it run and just see what happens.

I presume that part of the time is that it is generating the speech to text, and I have an mp3 file that I am ready to use, but I decided to run it first using the Google TTS just so I could step through making the program work as you yourself have it running. I did substitute my own text file (the Vatican Sayings, in pure ascii) in place of yours.

WOW that would be even better! I am afraid I am asking too much!

At any rate, I have all the python dependencies loaded, I believe, and the program appears to start, (the selection box moves to the next line) and there are no error messages, but it doesn't seem to be doing anything very fast, and I don't see a process I can identify as running. It did however create an audio.mp3 file that was not there in the beginning

I should maybe say I am running debian stretch (MX-18)

THANK you Kyle! I am working with my first effort now....

Edit: Well it is taking me a while to install dependencies but I am getting there. No doubt most people of normal experience will not be able to do that, so this is something that can be handled through an installer?

What kind of text-to-speech engine are you using? I am familiar that Androld has something but is your engine something that is native to Windows or Mac or Linux or Python or what?

In the end I am thinking that human voices will be the main use of this, but as text-to-speech improves (IF it improves) then that will be viable too. I say "if" because my experience was that the Ivona packages were leading the field before they were bought (by Amazon I think) and effectively removed from the market.

I can imagine using this in at least two ways: (1) using it to produce just the scrolling text, and then dropping the resulting video into a video editing program to customize the area around the box with the text. (2) as is, just as you are doing, combining a user-spoken MP3 with the text that is being spoken. You're adding options that will make option (2) very viable, but if it gets to be to huge a project, option (1) should always be workable too. My experience is that it's next to impossible to drop a large amount of text into any standard video-editor program, so this will solve that problem elegantly!

More greatness! Thank you!

Hmm did you mean to include a link to a video?

Amazing! I am out but will try as soon as I get home. Thank you!

Elli: Because according to Myth Cyprus is the birthplace of Venus/Aphrodite.

Cassius: I never knew that! Venus was born in Cyprus? Why Cyprus? Is there some mountain or temple or some other feature that connected her or her parents with Cyprus? https://visitworldheritage.com/.../d4a87816-4a22-44d0...
visitworldheritage.com

Birthplace of Aphrodite | World Heritage Journeys of Europe
Birthplace of Aphrodite | World Heritage Journeys of Europe 3d view! Is one of these rocks the important one? https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%…D-YJ8kpmkgB976k
360cities.net

The birthplace of Venus, Cyprus 360 Panorama | 360Cities

This question isn't chargeable to Epicurus or Lucretius, certainly, because the engraving in this photo is only a couple of hundred years old. But I wonder why, in this portrayal made for the opening of Lucretius Book One, the artist decided to feature a map of CYPRUS at the bottom left of the drawing. And specifically - it says Cyprus - in case anyone didn't recognize the shape. Is Cyprus a particularly delightful place, or something? Or thought to be so in old England? Or is there in fact a connection I am missing?

It looks like Amazon now has a range of 3d printers that cost under $200.00, so this is light years ahead of where we were when I scanned my Epicurus bust 5+ years ago (I know I am mixing the technologies - printing is not the same as scanning) but I am not up on the latest developments on how to scan.

Edit: Looks like prices have plummeted there too.

Yes Joshua I think that is a great goal. We ought to be able to design nice-looking items for which the 3d design files can be downloaded by anyone and printed at home. We worked on that in the past with the model of the Epicurus bust, and those are out there "somewhere" but they were not as quality ("sharpness") as could be done today. We really need to restart that project from scratch (re-scan the Epicurus busts) and then come up with a range of things that can be printed.

Thanks Samj - good info!

Friday, October 11, 2019:

By the same rule, the visible heavens, the surrounding walls of this great world, must tumble down by continual attacks, and fall to ruin. It is the nourishment that preserves things in being by constant supplies, but ‘tis all to no purpose: For neither are the veins capable to receive what is sufficient, nor can nature afford a proper and needful recruit. Even now, the age of the world is broken, and the Earth so feeble and worn out, that it scarce produces a puny kind of creatures, when it bore formerly a lusty race, and brought forth such prodigious bodies of wild beasts. Or I cannot think all species of creatures descended from the sky by a Golden Chain upon the Earth, nor were they by the Sea created, nor by the waves that beat the Rocks, but the same Earth which now supports them, at first gave them being. At first she kindly, of her own accord, raised the rich fruits and delightful vines for the benefit of men. She freely of herself offered her sweet produce, the corn and tender grass, which now scare rise to perfection with all our labor.

We wear out our oxen, and the strength of our husbandmen; we can scarce find plowshares sufficient to till the fields, things are so averse to grow, and our labors are forever increasing. And now the lusty plowman shakes his head, and laments the pains he took was oft in vain; and when he compares the present times with the glorious days that are past, he blesses the good fortune of those that were before him; he talks loudly how the old race of men, filled with piety, no doubt spent their happy days within the narrow bounds of their own field, (for then every man's share of ground was much less than it is now) but has no notion, fond fool! that things by degrees decay, and, worn out by old age, hasten to ruin to the utmost period of their duration.

End of Book Two

This reminds me that I have been playing with designs for a coin / memento. The different graphic elements which make sense to include are pretty obvious: fig leaves, leaping pig, atom, skull, then with an inscription / quote on back. This is very raw and just proof-of-concept stage:

Here is the original post at NewEpicurean that Samj mentioned.

What Would You Like Inscribed On Your Ring?

By Cassius Amicus Published October 10, 2012 Epicurean Art, Introductory Material

The topic of memorable rings has come to my attention today, and that reminds me to discuss another aspect of Epicureanism: the use of images of Epicurus and Epicurean inscriptions on rings, cups, and other mementos.

Bernard Frischer’s book “The Sculpted Word” provides an excellent background into the use of images by the ancient Epicureans as both a self-help device and a device for recruitment of new converts to the philosophy (the very idea of recruitment being contrary to the view of Epicureanism as hermitic). The Sculpted Word focuses largely on the monumental seated sculptures of Epicurus himself, a number of which survive at least in pieces from antiquity. In addition, Cicero records the use of rings and cups apparently used in a similar way.

The question I would like to pose today is the title of the post “What Would You Like Inscribed On Your Epicurean Ring?” An image of Epicurus is the first obvious choice. Munro records in the overleaf to his translation of De Rerum Natura the existence of an oval ring bearing an image that appears to be marked as that of Lucretius.

We also have busts of Metrodorus and Hermarchus that survive from Herculaneum, so images of those important Epicureans are also available.

But what if you wanted a more simple ring inscribed with only a particularly meaningful phrase? What would that phrase be? Any number of the Authorized Doctrines or the Vatican Sayings lend themselves to this, but selecting one short enough to use is a little trickier. Here are a couple that come to mind:

• Nothing can be created from nothing. (Nil posse creari de nilo.) (Latin from Lucretius Book I)
• Death is nothing to us.
• Guide of Life, Divine Pleasure (dux vitae dia voluptas) (Latin from Lucretius Book II)
• Nothing is enough for the man to whom enough is too little.

At present I think my favorite would be one of the first two, as I think of those as starting points on which the rest of Epicureanism is erected. Nothing can be created from nothing because a ring is something physical that can be touched, something which has a clear and certain reality, a tangible example that nothing is created from nothing, which leads to all the other physical observations about the universe. Death is nothing to us, as a constant reminder that all the pleasure we seek must be experienced while we live, and that it is worse that folly to worry about a past or future existence of the soul.

I would be interested to know your thoughts and suggestions!

__________________

We definitely need to add here images of the rings from the British Museum:

Samj could you share a link to the source that you used to make that for you and any helpful commentary that would let others do that?

Also I wonder if we could do designs that could be translated to 3d files where such things could be printed at home on 3d printers(?) I don't have one but I gather they are becoming very common and inexpensive.