Crossreference:
As it will be relevant to this podcast series on Part 3 of Tusculan Disputations, please post any links to articles or publicly-available material relevant to Philodemus' "On Anger" in this thread below:
Posts by Cassius
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This topic is going to be relevant to our discussions of Part 3 of Cicero's "Tusculan Disputations."
At the moment the primary source is probably the 2020 SBL Press version translated by David Armstrong and Michael McOsker.
Philodemus, On Anger (Writings from the Greco-roman World) (Writings from the Greco-Roman World, 45)
It appears that the edition linked below may be the same as that listed on Amazon:
If anyone knows of any material on "On Anger" that is publicly accessible on the internet, please post here in this thread.
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Happy Birthday to jason! Learn more about jason and say happy birthday on jason's timeline: jason
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Definitely the book and our podcast interview with Marcello Boeri!
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Beginning with Episode 288 of the Lucretius Today Podcast recorded today, for the next six weeks or longer we are going to be dealing with important issues as to emotions: Should emotions be considered to be "diseases," as Cicero explains is implied in the Greek "pathe" terminology, or considered as "perturbation" as he says in Latin?
Should all strong emotions be suppressed by the wise man, as the Stoics suggest, or is the wise man going to experience strong emotions?
These issues are discussed in Part 3 of Tusculan Disputations, which begins here.
Cicero criticizes the Stoics for playing word games with these issues, but to some extent it is in fact necessary for us to explore the meaning of the word choices we use to be sure we are not accepting false or misleading labeling.
I suggest that over the next couple of weeks when we are looking for topics for meetings that we begin exploring this topic in more detail. This subforum will be a good place to post threads on this topic.
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Welcome Welcome SamSara73
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This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards and associated Terms of Use. Please be sure to read that document to understand our ground rules.
Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.
All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from most other philosophies, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit of truth and happy living through pleasure as explained in the principles of Epicurean philosophy.
One way you can be assured of your time here will be productive is to tell us a little about yourself and your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you already have.
You can also check out our Getting Started page for ideas on how to use this website.
We have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.
"Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Norman DeWitt
The Biography of Epicurus by Diogenes Laertius. This includes the surviving letters of Epicurus, including those to Herodotus, Pythocles, and Menoeceus.
"On The Nature of Things" - by Lucretius (a poetic abridgement of Epicurus' "On Nature"
"Epicurus on Pleasure" - By Boris Nikolsky
The chapters on Epicurus in Gosling and Taylor's "The Greeks On Pleasure."
Cicero's "On Ends" - Torquatus Section
Cicero's "On The Nature of the Gods" - Velleius Section
The Inscription of Diogenes of Oinoanda - Martin Ferguson Smith translation
A Few Days In Athens" - Frances Wright
Lucian Core Texts on Epicurus: (1) Alexander the Oracle-Monger, (2) Hermotimus
Philodemus "On Methods of Inference" (De Lacy version, including his appendix on relationship of Epicurean canon to Aristotle and other Greeks)
"The Greeks on Pleasure" -Gosling & Taylor Sections on Epicurus, especially the section on katastematic and kinetic pleasure which explains why ultimately this distinction was not of great significance to Epicurus.
It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.
And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.
(If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).
Welcome to the forum!
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Happy Birthday to EyalA! Learn more about EyalA and say happy birthday on EyalA's timeline: EyalA
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Here's our prior discussion on the Frischer book:
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Others may have better suggestions than I do. I don't recall that we have a podcast on that, but there is book devoted to something close to that -- "The Sculpted Word" by Bernard Frischer, which discusses Epicurean use of art in portraying Epicurus.
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Thanks for your response. I will talk with the other moderators about inviting you to something soon. In the meantime, I can recommend that you look into the LucretiusToday podcast here at the forum and on all podcast sources. We regularly have three to four of our members here participating in that, and I think it would give you a very good idea of what live discussions might be like. The podcast is edited and much more structured than our live meetings, where we devote much of the time to questions and exchange of ideas, but it sounds like the podcast might fit the bill for what you are looking for. On our main page we have a number of sample episodes highlighted which would be a good place to start.
You might want to check out in particular our 200th episode special where we talked about where we have been and where we are going.
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Kalosyni thanks for adding that. Bryan, those names are supposed to be in roughly date order, with Epicurus at the top and the newest names at the bottom. Where would you locate Apollodorus? Let us know and we will reorder.
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Thanks Bryan. In terms of setting up subforums, an administrator (Probably me or Kalosyni) will need to do that.
Let us know who else might be good to add and we'll do it, or at the very least set up a single thread for each one under a "general" section.
We'll get that done.
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ceiltechbladhm thank you for your post and welcome to the forum. So that we can have a free exchange of information among people who are known to be friendly to Epicurean ideas, we ask that people establish themselves in the forum before being invited to participate in a live event. Our Zooms help us to establish a community of friends as much or more than they serve a teaching function, so we've found this process to be important.
We also have a "First Monday" meeting each month that we reserve for meeting new people who want to attend the zooms.
Please let us know about your background and interest in Epicurus and we'll move forward from there.
Thanks again for posting.
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I split this off from the prolepsis thread thread as Don raises an issue I think is very important. I don't contend that I am sure of the right answer myself, so I think we need to flesh out even what the question means.
I think all of us as Don says are familiar with Plato having alleged that the senses are incapable of allowing us to attain truth, which exists only in ideal forms, and Aristotle being largely in the same place but saying "essences" exist in this world.
But Don has focused on whether Epicurus held that there is an "objective" truth:
While I agree "idealist truth" doesn't exist in the form of some Platonic ideal, truth as in the truth of existing things does exist. I would call that objective truth. The difference is "Is it true pigs exist?" Vs "Is it true that ice cream tastes good?" The first is the objective truth Epicurus was concerned with in using his Criteria. The second is subjective and contextual. If one starts questioning the truth of the existence of pigs, one rapidly devolves into a Socratic nightmare: "What do you mean by a 'pig'?" To my understanding, Epicurus stands on it being true that there is an objective reality with which we interact with our sensations.
What does it mean to say that there is an "objective truth?"
Is Epicurean canonics concerned with establishing "objective truth"?
I think there are some citations on this point that we can collect, and then of course there are many deep arguments that can be pursued.
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Welcome ceiltechbladhm
There is one last step to complete your registration:
All new registrants must post a response to this message here in this welcome thread (we do this in order to minimize spam registrations).
You must post your response within 24 hours, or your account will be subject to deletion.
Please say "Hello" by introducing yourself, tell us what prompted your interest in Epicureanism and which particular aspects of Epicureanism most interest you, and/or post a question.
This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards and associated Terms of Use. Please be sure to read that document to understand our ground rules.
Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.
All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from most other philosophies, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit of truth and happy living through pleasure as explained in the principles of Epicurean philosophy.
One way you can be assured of your time here will be productive is to tell us a little about yourself and your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you already have.
You can also check out our Getting Started page for ideas on how to use this website.
We have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.
"Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Norman DeWitt
The Biography of Epicurus by Diogenes Laertius. This includes the surviving letters of Epicurus, including those to Herodotus, Pythocles, and Menoeceus.
"On The Nature of Things" - by Lucretius (a poetic abridgement of Epicurus' "On Nature"
"Epicurus on Pleasure" - By Boris Nikolsky
The chapters on Epicurus in Gosling and Taylor's "The Greeks On Pleasure."
Cicero's "On Ends" - Torquatus Section
Cicero's "On The Nature of the Gods" - Velleius Section
The Inscription of Diogenes of Oinoanda - Martin Ferguson Smith translation
A Few Days In Athens" - Frances Wright
Lucian Core Texts on Epicurus: (1) Alexander the Oracle-Monger, (2) Hermotimus
Philodemus "On Methods of Inference" (De Lacy version, including his appendix on relationship of Epicurean canon to Aristotle and other Greeks)
"The Greeks on Pleasure" -Gosling & Taylor Sections on Epicurus, especially the section on katastematic and kinetic pleasure which explains why ultimately this distinction was not of great significance to Epicurus.
It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.
And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.
(If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).
Welcome to the forum!
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I very much agree Patrikios, just like people differ in their sense of taste or smell or what they find pleasurable. A test of "truth" cannot and I would say therefore does not mean a test of "absolute" or "true for everyone" truth. Some truths are more widely applicable than others but given the nature of the universe all truths are contextual. Absolute Platonic idealist truth does not exist and it is a false standard to act as if it does.
I would also say this relates to not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
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Welcome back Root/Adrastus! Yes we definitely are still having zoom meetings, and good to hear you are working on your own writing. I encourage everyone here to do that as the best way to learn something yourself is to work on explaining it to other people. Good to have you back.
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I suspect that either Joshua or Eikadistes or both have included notable / infamous dates in the suppression of "paganism," closing of the schools, destruction of the temples, etc.
I would like to see us have a timetable of those major events so we could begin to form a mental outline about the most significant of them. Maybe one of them already knows of such a listing / timeline.
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I recall when I read some of these chapters many years ago, and listened to them on the Audible.com version, that Gibbon can be very sarcastic/ironic. It will therefore pay for readers to keep that in mind and not accept everything he says on face value, especially if English is not your first language. Some of that irony is probably easier to detect in the Audible version.
For example, in the outline above there is a reference to "the moral purity and discipline of Christian communities." I gathered in reading some of those references that it was very debatable whether he was serious or sarcastic about that.
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