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"If anyone thinks that he knows nothing, he cannot be sure that he knows this, when he confesses that he knows nothing at all. I shall avoid disputing with such a trifler, who perverts all things, and like a tumbler with his head prone to the earth, can go no otherwise than backwards." (Lucretius 4:469)

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Posts by Cassius

New Graphics: Are You On Team Epicurus? | Comparison Chart: Epicurus vs. Other Philosophies | Chart Of Key Epicurean Quotations 

  • The Weight Of Atoms (Are All The Same Weight?)

    • Cassius
    • March 26, 2026 at 6:58 AM

    Last night in our zoom the question came up as to whether Epicurus held that atoms differ in weight. This is what AI has to say - take it for what its worth and let's discuss whether they differ in weight or not.


    Atomic Weight (βάρος) in Epicurean Philosophy

    Does Epicurus say atoms have different weights?

    Yes — but with important qualifications. Epicurus lists weight alongside size and shape as one of the three intrinsic properties of atoms. However, the relationship between weight and the other properties is philosophically murky in ways that size is not.

    The key passage is Letter to Herodotus §54: atoms differ in shape, size, and weight (βάρος). This seems straightforward. But complications arise immediately.


    The Upper and Lower Bound Problem for Weight

    Lower bound — every atom has some weight: This is unambiguous. Epicurus breaks decisively from Democritus here. Democritus did not attribute weight to atoms as an intrinsic property — weight for him was a relational or emergent phenomenon arising from atomic collisions and vortex motion. Epicurus insists weight is primitive and intrinsic: every atom, no matter how small, has weight, and weight is what drives the fundamental downward motion through the void (the clinamen aside). There is no weightless atom. So the lower bound is: at least some minimal quantum of weight, corresponding presumably to the smallest atom.

    Upper bound — here it gets complicated: Unlike size, where Epicurus gives a clear upper bound (atoms must remain sub-perceptible), he does not give an equally crisp upper bound for weight in the Letter to Herodotus. The constraint that seems to apply is:

    1. Weight must correlate at least roughly with size (a larger atom, having more minimal parts, should be heavier).
    2. Since atomic size is bounded above by sub-perceptibility, atomic weight is indirectly bounded — an atom cannot be so heavy that it produces perceptible gravitational effects in isolation.
    3. But Epicurus never states this explicitly for weight the way he does for size.

    The Lucretius Complication

    This is where things get genuinely difficult. Lucretius, in DRN 2.225–242 and 2.333–380, appears to deny that atoms differ in weight at all — or at least to deny that heavier atoms fall faster than lighter ones. His argument for the clinamen (the atomic swerve) depends on all atoms falling at the same speed in the void regardless of weight. This is the famous passage: in empty space, a feather and a lead ball fall at the same rate — only resistance (plagae) from surrounding matter creates apparent differences in falling speed.

    This produces an apparent contradiction:

    • Epicurus says atoms have different weights (βάρος varies).
    • Lucretius says all atoms fall at the same speed.

    How scholars resolve this:

    Sedley (Lucretius and the Transformation of Greek Wisdom, 1998) argues these are not actually contradictory. Atoms have different quantities of weight, but in the infinite void with no resistance, the rate of fall is uniform regardless — because there is no medium to create differential drag. Weight differences matter only when atoms are in collision with other atoms, contributing to the mass and downward tendency of compound bodies. The weight of an atom is real but its effect on velocity is masked by the homogeneity of the void.

    Bailey and others have argued more skeptically that Lucretius may simply be softening or misrepresenting Epicurus on this point.


    Does Weight Scale with Size?

    This is another contested question. The natural assumption is that a larger atom (more minimal parts) is also heavier. Epicurus seems to assume this, but he never makes it explicit. The problem is that shape also varies independently of size — a very intricately shaped atom might have more minimal parts than a compact spherical atom of the same overall dimensions. Weight, size, and shape are listed as independent variables in §54, which suggests they can vary independently of each other — a philosophically awkward result if weight is just a function of volume.


    Summary of Constraints

    Size (μέγεθος)Weight (βάρος)
    Lower bound≥ 1 minimal part (ἐλάχιστον)Every atom has some weight — no weightless atoms
    Upper boundMust remain sub-perceptibleImplicitly bounded by size; no explicit ceiling stated
    Source of constraintMinimal parts theory + empirical observationEmpirical (Democritus' weightless atoms contradicted by experience of falling bodies)
    Varies independently of other properties?Yes (from shape)Disputed — may scale with size or vary independently
    Key controversyNone — fairly settledWhether weight affects fall speed; Epicurus vs. Lucretius apparent tension

    The sources available to us are less developed than treatment of size. The minimal parts doctrine gives size a rigorous lower bound with clear mathematical structure. Weight by contrast seems to be asserted as a primitive intrinsic property largely to explain why atoms move at all — and the upper bound problem is left more implicit than resolved.

  • Explaining The Relationship Between Properties / Qualities of Atoms and Emergent Qualities of Things Formed From Atoms

    • Cassius
    • March 26, 2026 at 6:43 AM

    Another option:

    Sedley's Routledge Encyclopedia entry (2005) states that "atoms themselves have only the primary or ineliminable features of body: size, shape and weight," and that the ground for this parsimony is the Letter to Herodotus §54–55: secondary properties are changeable by nature, whereas atoms are the enduring entities underlying change. Routledge Epicurus avoids the "reductionism" of Democritus — while everything is ultimately atoms and void, the emergent properties that arise from those combinations are not equivalent in every respect to their constituent atoms.

    On the compound-body level, Lucretius distinguishes in De Rerum Natura properties that are inseparable (coniuncta, Greek συμβεβηκότα) from others that are accidental (eventa, συμπτώματα). Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy And crucially on the ontological status of those emergent qualities: although colors and other accidents are real, they are irreducibly different from atomic structures, and atomic structures are in no way ontologically privileged over the phenomenal level — neither level has a monopoly on truth. Routledge

    Here is the main structural diagram showing the full ontological hierarchy:

  • Explaining The Relationship Between Properties / Qualities of Atoms and Emergent Qualities of Things Formed From Atoms

    • Cassius
    • March 26, 2026 at 6:40 AM

    Again - consider these as initial drafts that will need further revision!

  • Explaining The Relationship Between Properties / Qualities of Atoms and Emergent Qualities of Things Formed From Atoms

    • Cassius
    • March 26, 2026 at 5:57 AM

    In our Zoom of 3/25/26 we discussed the topic of this thread and how it would be desirable to prepare a diagram / explanation of the proper use of these terms. Bryan has by far the best command of this and he has provided some basic information from which it would be desirable to come up with more explanatory material. Here are two charts of the words in issue, followed by an initial effort using an AI generator to make a diagram. Consider this just a starting point and not by any means authoritative, and let's see what we can do to produce a clear explanation.

    6136-image-png


    6135-image-png
  • Welcome J.Tycherne!

    • Cassius
    • March 25, 2026 at 7:37 PM

    J.Tycherne tells us -

    Quote

    Hi Cassius,

    Thanks very much for your tentative approval of my account. I'm just getting started learning about Epicurus and am very interested to learn more. I started by reading Diogenes Laertius' Book X on Epicurus, and found myself very much interested in Epicurean thought, particularly his letter to Menoikeus. I can read Greek, but am self-taught so am no scholar. I found myself frustrated by the Loeb translation of this letter, so was searching for other English translations, and stumbled upon your site. I've already found a translation uploaded by one of the other users here, which I plan to get into presently.

    j.tycherne

  • Welcome J.Tycherne!

    • Cassius
    • March 25, 2026 at 7:37 PM

    Welcome j.tycherne

    There is one last step to complete your registration:

    All new registrants must post a response to this message here in this welcome thread (we do this in order to minimize spam registrations).

    You must post your response within 24 hours, or your account will be subject to deletion.

    Please say "Hello" by introducing yourself, tell us what prompted your interest in Epicureanism and which particular aspects of Epicureanism most interest you, and/or post a question.

    This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards and associated Terms of Use. Please be sure to read that document to understand our ground rules.

    Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.

    All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from most other philosophies, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit of truth and happy living through pleasure as explained in the principles of Epicurean philosophy.

    One way you can be assured of your time here will be productive is to tell us a little about yourself and your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you already have.

    You can also check out our Getting Started page for ideas on how to use this website.

    We have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.

    "Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Norman DeWitt

    The Biography of Epicurus by Diogenes Laertius. This includes the surviving letters of Epicurus, including those to Herodotus, Pythocles, and Menoeceus.

    "On The Nature of Things" - by Lucretius (a poetic abridgement of Epicurus' "On Nature"

    "Epicurus on Pleasure" - By Boris Nikolsky

    The chapters on Epicurus in Gosling and Taylor's "The Greeks On Pleasure."

    Cicero's "On Ends" - Torquatus Section

    Cicero's "On The Nature of the Gods" - Velleius Section

    The Inscription of Diogenes of Oinoanda - Martin Ferguson Smith translation

    A Few Days In Athens" - Frances Wright

    Lucian Core Texts on Epicurus: (1) Alexander the Oracle-Monger, (2) Hermotimus

    Philodemus "On Methods of Inference" (De Lacy version, including his appendix on relationship of Epicurean canon to Aristotle and other Greeks)

    "The Greeks on Pleasure" -Gosling & Taylor Sections on Epicurus, especially the section on katastematic and kinetic pleasure which explains why ultimately this distinction was not of great significance to Epicurus.

    It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.

    And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.

    (If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).

    Welcome to the forum!

    4258-pasted-from-clipboard-png

    4257-pasted-from-clipboard-png


  • Article: Not A Bunker But A Camp: A Response To “The Garden or the Forum”

    • Cassius
    • March 25, 2026 at 7:24 PM

    Thanks Joshua I will incorporate that!

  • Article: Not A Bunker But A Camp: A Response To “The Garden or the Forum”

    • Cassius
    • March 25, 2026 at 6:20 PM
    Quote from DaveT

    My thinking was that a scholarly debate read in an academic journal, might raise the misstated issues by Pigliucci to professionals in the field. Any one of those who may better understand Epicurus though your forceful review of Pigliucci becomes a force multiplier so to speak toward your goal of clearing up misconceptions of Epicurean foundations.

    Unfortunately my experience tells me to expect just the opposite as to who the "professionals in the field" can be expected to say is misguided. Although I am no Academic myself, it's my observation that Pigliucci's position is in fact the majority position of the vast majority of philosphic professionals.

    This feeds back into our earlier discussion of "experts" and when to defer to them. I have to go with my reading of the sources and the commentators as to what makes sense to me after reviewing the best material available.

    I'll be pleased if there are any Academics who would weigh in to agree with my position, but I don't expect it. If there were such writers out there already, we wouldn't be almost alone in the positions that have been taken on this forum on the best interpretation of Epicurus, and Pigliucci's positions would not be so prevalent.

    This is an ongoing journey, and no one here should be under the false impression that they can refute Pigliucci's position by numbers of testimonials. For the present at least, anyone whose priority is to be in the mainstream of Academic scholarship likely isn't going to feel at home at EpicureanFriends.com.

  • Article: Not A Bunker But A Camp: A Response To “The Garden or the Forum”

    • Cassius
    • March 25, 2026 at 12:53 PM
    Quote from DaveT

    I wish you and he could engage in a scholarly journal on issues he asserted and your response.

    It's an interesting question. I am not opposed to doing that at some point, and in fact I expect to do more interviews/discussions as we've done on the podcast in the past, but I need to think through exactly if and when debating with someone committed to an opposing position is worth the time.

    If I were promoting myself as a guru or writing a book I wanted to sell or wanted to become a "personality" then that would clearly be the thing to do. However that is not my goal: my goal is the successful restoration of an Epicurean "camp" (to use that terminology here), and that isn't necessarily best accomplished by engaging in personality debates or trying to build my own personal "brand." I don't admit that anything we do here is anything other than correct Epicurean philosophy, so it would only detract to allow it to appear to be a "Cassius Amicus" innovation.

    in fact I am remembering lately what Francis Wright had to say in A Few Days In Athens about how in-person arguments rarely produce anything good as a result.

    As Martin and I and others observed over at Facebook, there is an unlimited supply of Stoics who love nothing better than arguing about detailed points of logic. The truth is that basic issues of the nature of the universe and our perspective on this world as sufficient for us, rather than focusing on a transcendent "true world" need no sophisticated analysis. The respective positions are unbridgeable and the main question is how to get the world to people who are open to the Epicurean side.

    As you yourself indicated in an earlier post, engaging in debates where we have no reasonable expectations of coming to agreement with the other side. For the present I am thinking that the best thing i can do for the project is to continue to focus on the podcast and producing new content of our own. So I'm still thinking but those are my current thoughts.

    We have a lot of projects going on here and those will probably continue to be my primary focus.

  • Article: Not A Bunker But A Camp: A Response To “The Garden or the Forum”

    • Cassius
    • March 25, 2026 at 7:40 AM
    Quote from Don

    I see you don't allow comments on Substack.

    I may change that but have not thought it through.

  • Article: Not A Bunker But A Camp: A Response To “The Garden or the Forum”

    • Cassius
    • March 25, 2026 at 12:33 AM

    Thank you Tau Phi.

    Many of our EpicureanFriends participants arrived here after traveling through Stoicism - myself included. Many open-minded people read the Stoic materials and it's probably a good means of exposure for us to at least occasionally engage at appropriate times.

    I have avoided skirmishing with the committed Stoics in the past, but I think we need at least a couple of articles setting out the ultimate points for those who are new to the study. The articles that are specifically anti-Epicurean and relatively high-profile - such as this one by Pigliucci on Substack - probably deserve individual attention.

    In the future where specifically anti-Epicurean articles appear, i want to at least consider publishing a public response. I try to monitor the internet for new articles, but this one got past me for almost a month. As people see articles that deserve attention I will appreciate it if they will let me know by public thread or private message.

  • Article: Not A Bunker But A Camp: A Response To “The Garden or the Forum”

    • Cassius
    • March 24, 2026 at 1:14 PM

    I will update this thread but it will provide for the main place for discussion of this article.

    Blog Article

    Not A Bunker But A Camp: A Response To "The Garden or the Forum" - An Epicurean response to Massimo Pigliucci's March 3, 2026. article on Epicurus, the Stoics, and political engagement

    This article is viewable also on Substack.

    Massimo Pigliucci’s essay “The Garden Or The Forum: Epicurus, The Stoics, And The Duty To Engage” represents precisely the kind of Stoic-inflected reading of Epicurus that has dominated popular philosophy for decades and that has consistently produced a distorted portrait of true Epicurean philosophy. It is wrong about Epicurus at nearly every key point — not through mere carelessness, but through a pattern of misreading that is characteristic of…
    Cassius
    March 24, 2026 at 1:10 PM
  • Sunday Zoom - March 15, 2026 - 12:30 PM ET - Topic - Lucretius Book One Starting At Line 265 - Atoms Are Invisible

    • Cassius
    • March 22, 2026 at 6:29 AM
    Quote from Robert

    Very interested to see how Philodemus approaches the topic of inference!

    Robert much of the difficulty comes from the loss of the first part of the book, meaning that what we have left starts in the middle and appears to be stating non-Epicurean views. Rather than presenting his own opinions Philodemus is giving a survey of opposing views (if I recall) so it's not clear - at least for a beginner - what Philodemus is advocating himself without a lot of work.

    The two best aids I have found are the appendix to the DeLacy translation and Sedley's work "On Signs."

    If you have any inclination to help outline this and contribute toward unwinding it before we get to it in he podcast I am sure Joshua would appreciate it as much as I would.

  • Epicurus vs Kant and Modern Idealism - Introduction

    • Cassius
    • March 22, 2026 at 6:09 AM

    Thank you Martin. It will be helpful for us to dig further into Kant and clarify why he is such a lightning-rod for dispute. This should prove to be a very useful thread.

    So just so I am clear - because you've apparently read a lot more Kant than I have:

    Would a Kantian take the position that it is not true that there are no supernatural gods, not true that there is no life after death, and not true that pleasure is the guide of life?

  • Welcome M Dango

    • Cassius
    • March 21, 2026 at 8:22 PM

    M.Dango tells us -

    Quote

    Hello friends!

    I am a 37 year old software engineer based in London, UK, and a philosophy newbie who has been challenging conventional ideas for ways of living throughout my life. Recent reading on the topics of philosophy, epistemology, and hedonism has led me to the fascinating ideas of Epicurus. The value of friendship especially struck a chord with me, and reading through the Team Epicurus decision tree, I see strong alignment with my own beliefs.

    I am excited to read through the book "Living for Pleasure" imminently!

  • Welcome M Dango

    • Cassius
    • March 21, 2026 at 8:22 PM

    Welcome m.dango !

    There is one last step to complete your registration:

    All new registrants must post a response to this message here in this welcome thread (we do this in order to minimize spam registrations).

    You must post your response within 24 hours, or your account will be subject to deletion.

    Please say "Hello" by introducing yourself, tell us what prompted your interest in Epicureanism and which particular aspects of Epicureanism most interest you, and/or post a question.

    This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards and associated Terms of Use. Please be sure to read that document to understand our ground rules.

    Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.

    All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from most other philosophies, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit of truth and happy living through pleasure as explained in the principles of Epicurean philosophy.

    One way you can be assured of your time here will be productive is to tell us a little about yourself and your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you already have.

    You can also check out our Getting Started page for ideas on how to use this website.

    We have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.

    "Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Norman DeWitt

    The Biography of Epicurus by Diogenes Laertius. This includes the surviving letters of Epicurus, including those to Herodotus, Pythocles, and Menoeceus.

    "On The Nature of Things" - by Lucretius (a poetic abridgement of Epicurus' "On Nature"

    "Epicurus on Pleasure" - By Boris Nikolsky

    The chapters on Epicurus in Gosling and Taylor's "The Greeks On Pleasure."

    Cicero's "On Ends" - Torquatus Section

    Cicero's "On The Nature of the Gods" - Velleius Section

    The Inscription of Diogenes of Oinoanda - Martin Ferguson Smith translation

    A Few Days In Athens" - Frances Wright

    Lucian Core Texts on Epicurus: (1) Alexander the Oracle-Monger, (2) Hermotimus

    Philodemus "On Methods of Inference" (De Lacy version, including his appendix on relationship of Epicurean canon to Aristotle and other Greeks)

    "The Greeks on Pleasure" -Gosling & Taylor Sections on Epicurus, especially the section on katastematic and kinetic pleasure which explains why ultimately this distinction was not of great significance to Epicurus.

    It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.

    And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.

    (If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).

    Welcome to the forum!

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  • Nietzsche As Potentially The Most Well-Known Modern Philosopher With Core Views Parallel With Epicurus

    • Cassius
    • March 21, 2026 at 5:35 PM

    I decided it would be interesting to do some research on what famous modern philosopher might be closest to Epicurus in core philosophic views. I generated a draft of the following using AI and then edited the entire document in way that I understand myself to be correct given my "generalist" understanding of Nietzsche.

    I feel sure that an expert on Nietzsche would quibble with some particulars but I also feel sure that in general the following is correct, and is useful in pointing out important parallels that over time should be explored further. As I write this I am unaware of any major "modern" philosopher whose core views on the problems with philosophers who (1) seek a "true world" beyond the senses and (2) seek to universalize morality based on logic and reason alone, rather than grounding it in the feelings given us by nature.


    NIETZSCHE AS A PARALLEL VOICE — THE “TRUE WORLD” AND THE ATTACK ON SECULARIZED CHRISTIANITY

    1 Why Nietzsche Is Relevant to Understanding Epicurus

    Friedrich Nietzsche (1844–1900) is not an Epicurean, and significant differences exist between them — most notably on the role of suffering, which Nietzsche valued in ways Epicurus would not. Nevertheless Nietzsche is the single most useful modern parallel for understanding what Epicurus was fighting against, because Nietzsche identified and attacked the same philosophical enemies with the same fundamental diagnosis: that an entire tradition of Western philosophy from Socrates onward had been built on a life-denying lie.

    Nietzsche himself recognized the kinship. He wrote admiringly of Epicurus on multiple occasions, describing him as one of the few philosophers who had genuinely faced the question of how to live and answered it affirmatively. Anyone seeking to understand the tone and urgency of the Epicurean philosophical project — why it was not merely an academic debate but a battle for the soul of human civilization — will find Nietzsche’s work indispensable.

    2 The “True World” — Nietzsche’s Diagnosis in Twilight of the Idols

    In Twilight of the Idols (1888), Nietzsche includes a section titled “How the ‘True World’ Finally Became a Fable” — a six-step history of one of the most consequential philosophical errors in Western thought. The section is short enough to summarize fully, because it maps almost perfectly onto the Epicurean critique:

    Step 1 — Plato: The “true world” is attainable for the wise philosopher. It is the realm of ideal Forms, accessible through reason to the virtuous person. This world we live in — the sensory world — is the apparent world, a pale and deceptive shadow.

    Step 2 — Early Christianity: The “true world” is no longer attainable now, but is promised to the virtuous after death. The transcendent realm becomes Heaven. The sensory world is not merely inferior but actively corrupt and sinful.

    Step 3 — Kant: The “true world” is no longer promised or attained, but is posited as a regulative ideal — a “thing in itself” (Ding an sich) that lies permanently beyond the reach of human experience but which reason tells us must exist. We cannot know it, but we must act as if it grounds our moral obligations.

    Step 4 — Positivism: The “true world” is an unattained and unattainable idea and therefore useless. It is abolished as a concept — but the shadow remains, because the “apparent world” has been defined in opposition to it for so long that it too loses its footing.

    Step 5 — Nietzsche himself: The “true world” is abolished. With it, the “apparent world” is also abolished — because the distinction was always false. There is only the world: the world of becoming, of the senses, of life.

    Step 6: “The true world — we have abolished it. What world has remained? The apparent one perhaps? But no! With the true world we have also abolished the apparent one.” — Noon; moment of the shortest shadow; end of the longest error; high point of humanity; INCIPIT ZARATHUSTRA.

    This six-step history is the story of the error that Epicurus first identified and attacked. Plato invented the “true world.” Christianity colonized it. Kant rehabilitated it in secular philosophical dress. Nietzsche finally named it as a fable and declared it finished.

    Epicurus reached this conclusion over two thousand years before Nietzsche — and reached it not through despair or nihilism but through the affirmative discovery that this world, understood through the senses and reason, is sufficient for a life of genuine happiness.

    3 Kant’s “Dignity of Man” as Secularized Christianity

    Nietzsche’s attack on Kant is essential context for understanding why the Epicurean critique of Platonism and Stoicism is still urgently relevant today. The dominant modern ethical tradition — particularly in its Kantian form — perpetuates precisely the error Epicurus identified, now stripped of explicit theological language but retaining the same structure.

    Kant’s ethical system rests on the categorical imperative: the claim that reason alone, operating without reference to pleasure, pain, desire, or consequence, can generate universal and absolute moral obligations binding on all rational beings at all times and places. The foundation of this system is the concept of the dignity of rational humanity — the idea that human beings as rational agents possess an intrinsic, unconditional worth that must never be treated merely as a means to an end.

    Nietzsche’s devastating observation — with which Epicurus would have agreed — is that this is Christianity with the theological vocabulary removed. Consider the structural parallels:

    • In Christian theology: God grounds absolute universal moral law, accessible through divine revelation, binding on all humans regardless of circumstance.
    • In Kant: Reason grounds absolute universal moral law, accessible through pure rational reflection, binding on all rational beings regardless of circumstance.

    The move is identical in both cases: a source of absolute universal obligation is posited that transcends sensory experience, individual circumstance, and the natural guidance of pleasure and pain. Whether that source is called “God’s will” or “the moral law of pure reason” or “the dignity of humanity,” the Epicurean response is the same: there is no such source. Nature, speaking through pleasure and pain, is the only guide we have and the only one we need. Justice is not a universal absolute — it is a contextual compact. The “good” is not an absolute form — it is what actually produces pleasurable living for real human beings in real circumstances.

    Nietzsche makes this point with characteristic force: Kant’s ethics is an attempt to preserve the authority of the Christian moral framework after the theological foundation for it has collapsed. It is the shadow of God projected onto Reason. Epicurus, writing centuries before Christianity, had already dismantled the philosophical architecture on which this move depends.

    4 Anti-Humanism: The Universe Is Not About Us

    A third area of convergence between Nietzsche and Epicurus, and one that is easily overlooked, is their shared rejection of what might be called cosmic humanism — the idea that the universe has a human-directed purpose, that human reason holds a privileged position in the natural order, or that there exist universal moral norms grounded in “human nature” or “human dignity” as such.

    Epicurus was explicit and early on this point:

    • The universe was not made for humans. Lucretius devotes extensive argument in De Rerum Natura to demonstrating that the world, with all its hostility, indifference, and waste, cannot possibly be the product of benevolent design for humanity’s benefit.
    • Human reason is not a divine faculty with special access to higher truth. It is a natural capacity, evolved (in modern terms) for survival, dependent on the senses, and fallible.
    • There are no universal moral norms grounded in “human nature” that apply to all people at all times and places. Justice is a compact, varying by circumstance.
    • Humans are part of nature — animals among animals — subject to the same atomic processes as everything else.

    Nietzsche pressed this further in his attack on what he called the “ascetic ideal” — the whole constellation of values, including Platonism, Christianity, and Kantian moralism, that seeks to elevate the human above nature, to treat suffering as meaningful, to treat instinct and pleasure as base, and to locate human worth in something other than actual living. Against this he posed the will to power — not domination of others, but the affirmative self-overcoming of a life-embracing creature. Epicurus would not have used this language, but the underlying rejection of life-denial is the same.

    Both thinkers agree on the essential point: philosophy that begins by denigrating the sensory world, promising access to a higher truth, and demanding that we sacrifice present pleasure for abstract universal obligation — whether in the name of God, the Forms, Reason, or the Categorical Imperative — is philosophy in the service of life-denial. It is, in the end, the enemy of happiness.

    5 Summary: What Nietzsche Confirms About Epicurus

    The following are key parallels between Nietzsche and Epicurus:

    • The senses are reliable. Both reject the Platonic/Kantian tradition’s demotion of sensory experience to “mere appearance.” Nietzsche writes in Twilight of the Idols: “The senses do not lie. What we make of their testimony, that alone introduces lies.”
    • The “true world” is a fable. The entire tradition of positing a higher, truer reality behind the sensory world — from Plato’s Forms to Kant’s thing-in-itself — is a philosophical error with real human costs.
    • Universal absolute moral law is a fiction. Whether grounded in God, Reason, or Human Dignity, the claim that there exist binding universal obligations discoverable through pure thought, independent of pleasure, pain, and circumstance, is the philosophical heir of the same error.
    • Stoicism is a symptom, not a cure. The Stoic counsel to suppress desire, accept fate, and regard pleasure with suspicion is life-denial dressed as wisdom.
    • Life is to be affirmed, not transcended. The goal of philosophy is not to escape this world but to live in it as fully and happily as possible.

    Nietzsche celebrated struggle, suffering, and the overcoming of great obstacles as desirable and even beautiful. This parallels the Epicurean view that pain is to be chosen when the choice will allow pleasure to predominate. Nietzsche had contempt for what might be called “piggish” comfort-seeking, but this too can be reconciled with Epicurus when it is remembered that Epicurean pleasure is not limited to physical stimulation, and that we can find even greater pleasure in mental and other actions which we find more satisfying. In the end, whether viewed through Epicurus or Nietzsche, suffering is not to be engaged in for itself, but because it leads to maximizing pleasure when pleasure is properly understood.

  • Sunday March 22, 2026 - Zoom Meeting - Lucretius Book Review - Starting Book One Line 265

    • Cassius
    • March 21, 2026 at 1:31 PM

    These week we will continue around section 1:265 of Lucretius and explore further the implications of the invisibility of atoms and how we can have confidence in something that is not visible.


    EpicureanFriends Side-By-Side Lucretius
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  • Episode 326 - EATAQ 08 - Who Cares About Infinite Divisibility? And Why?

    • Cassius
    • March 21, 2026 at 1:26 PM

    Welcome to Episode 326 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where we discuss this and all of our podcast episodes.
       
    This week we start are continuing our series reviewing Cicero's "Academic Questions" from an Epicurean perspective. We are focusing first on what is referred to as Book One, which provides an overview of the issues that split Plato's Academy and gives us an overview of the philosophical issues being dealt with at the time of Epicurus. This week will will continue in Section 7

    Our text will come from
    Cicero - Academic Questions - Yonge We'll likely stick with Yonge primarily, but we'll also refer to the Rackam translation here:

    • Cicero On Nature Of Gods Academica Loeb Rackham : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive


  • Episode 325 - EATAQ 07 - The False Platonic Division of The Universe Into A Force Which Causes And That Which The Force Acts Upon

    • Cassius
    • March 20, 2026 at 6:46 PM

    Episode 325 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available. This week our episode is entitled: "The False Platonic Division Of The Universe Into A Force Which Causes And That Which Is Acted Upon."

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