Recent Updates From Across EpicureanFriends.com

Recent Activities

  • Don Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    (Quote from Little Rocker)

    That's the weird thing to me on the grammar. The pleasure phrase "in enjoyment, in pleasure" is between the definite article τας and κειμενας. So, paraphrasing your line, it seems to me like it's "those that lie in…
    Post

  • Nate Replied to the thread Plotinus and Epicurean Epistemology by Lloyd P. Gerson.

    (Quote from Eoghan Gardiner)

    Post

  • Little Rocker Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    Yeah, I admit I still think it's 'the pleasures that lie in consumption,' but now I'm intrigued to look at other uses.
    Post

  • TauPhi Replied to the thread Questions for Emily Austin - "Living for Pleasure" Zoom Meeting June 4.

    What other schools of philosophy are close to your heart? Which schools you find worth studying in detail?
    Post

  • Cassius Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    I am sure that *I* am more confused so I am glad you have not let it go. Looking for the word in other settings would seem to be the best approach.
    Post

  • Don Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    I can't seem to let this go. I searched this morning for other uses of κείμενας in Diogenes Laertius plus I found 2 uses of the specific phrase τας κειμενας in Demosthenes and Diogenes Laertius:

    τὰς κειμένας
    1. (those) deposited (Demosthenes, Against…
    Post

  • Cassius Replied to the thread Plotinus and Epicurean Epistemology by Lloyd P. Gerson.

    I am completely unread in Plotinus so this is interesting to me - thanks.

    But one thing I can say is that I hope it won't be another year before you ramble here again!
    Post

  • Eoghan Gardiner Replied to the thread Plotinus and Epicurean Epistemology by Lloyd P. Gerson.

    I have been heavily involved in catholic circles, it's an on going struggle for me. Neo Platonism is the singular most impactful philosophy on all the big theistic religions whether they want to admit it or not. Islam, Christians and Judaism.

    One of the…
    Post

  • Cassius Replied to the thread Episode 176 - "Epicurus And His Philosophy" Part 28 - Chapter 12 - The New Hedonism 05 (Not Yet Released).

    Editing of this episode is not complete but is going pretty well. I do see that I need to apologize however that I was sick for this episode and my congestion comes through - so please remember when you start listening to it that both Don and Joshua…
    Post

  • Don Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    (Quote from Little Rocker)

    Ah!! Maybe the other translations "sensual" was a circumlocution for sex! That *is* food for thought! Well done, Little Rocker !
    Post

  • Little Rocker Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    Not to lead us astray here, but is it possible this could be a reference to sex? I mean, if we did follow the idea that we're talking about the kinds of things a person might enjoy while lying in bed.
    Post

  • Godfrey Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    Stephen White
    "So when we say that pleasure is the end, we do not mean the pleasures of the dissolute or those of indulgence, as some mistakenly maintain, whether out of disagreement or malicious distortion."

    Noting that I'm completely ignorant of the…
    Post

  • Don Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    FYI
    Original text
    Ὅταν οὖν λέγωμεν ἡδονὴν τέλος ὑπάρχειν, οὐ τὰς τῶν ἀσώτων ἡδονὰς καὶ τὰς ἐν ἀπολαύσει κειμένας λέγομεν,

    Saint-Andre
    131: So when we say that pleasure is the goal, we do not mean the pleasures of decadent people or the enjoyment of sleep,…
    Post

  • Cassius Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    Thanks Tau Phi, good to see that there is anoher variation out there in the "standard" versions.
    Post

  • Don Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    I'm leaning towards an interpretation of Epicurus making a contrast between the frenzied pleasures of profligates and lazy indolent (maybe "self-indulgent") pleasures... Maybe?
    Post

  • TauPhi Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    (Quote from Cassius)

    There's a new translation of 'Lives of the Eminent Philosophers' by Pamela Mensch which was published in 2018 by Oxford University Press. I find her translation of the fragment in question much more on point then all the 'sensuality'…
    Post

  • Don Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    To me, upon further reflection, this seems to echo the contrast in VS11:
    τῶν πλείστων ἀνθρώπων τὸ μὲν ἡσυχάζον ναρκᾷ, τὸ δὲ κινούμενον λυττᾷ.
    For the majority of people, to be at rest is to be bored stiff; but to be active is to be raving like a rabid dog.…
    Post

  • Little Rocker Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    Epicurus does seem to use the standard philosophical ἄπειρος whenever he wants to talk about the unlimited (see KD 20, for example), so while I think it's definitely true that Epicurus wants to correct the misunderstanding that Epicureans pursue…
    Post

  • Cassius Replied to the thread Who to believe?.

    When I get asked the question next time about "which book to read first" I am going to expand it further by including "A Few Days In Athens" in the list.

    Unfortunately for AFDIA, chapter one is probably the least interesting of the whole book. However it…
    Post

  • ThinkingCat Replied to the thread Who to believe?.

    TauPhi - I love all the responses to the 30 word question and there is no right answer, but I identify with yours the most. Thanks for sharing.

    Cassius - that’s a good idea - I will do just that (read chapter one of both). Thanks
    Post

  • Cassius Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    (Quote from Elli)

    Elli I wonder here if you are saying that "limits" apply more to "desires" than to "feelings"? That would be an interesting direction to go, with desires being intellectual and requiring intellectual limitation (?)
    Post

  • Don Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    (Quote from Elli)

    From my reading, The two phrases joined by και are describing two different misunderstandings that Epicurus is trying to refute.
    Post

  • Don Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    (Quote from Elli)

    The construction of the two phrases is very similar:
    1. τὰς τῶν ἀσώτων ἡδονὰς
    καὶ "and"
    2. τὰς ἐν ἀπολαύσει κειμένας
    which Epicurus seems fond of doing in pairs.

    τὰς ἡδονὰς "the pleasures"
    τῶν ἀσώτων "of the prodigal"

    τὰς κειμένας…
    Post

  • Elli Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    κειμένων απολαύσεις = naughty enjoyments or lethargy enjoyments or (I found you a new greek word for "sleepy" "ενύπνιες" [enypnies] enjoyments. :sleeping:
    No, dear friends the enjoyments are enjoyments, and the only they have are LIMITS.

    A profligate would lough…
    Post

  • Elli Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    Don You wrote: "I still don't see how you're going from <those that lie in enjoyments> to getting [ those enjoyments that are out of limits]".

    And I do not see how you're going from the feelings (enjoyments) and intepret them - metaphorically - to…
    Post

  • Don Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    (Quote from Cassius)

    I'll be happy to email him even though the Epicurus texts were posted on 2011. Hopefully he'll remember ^^
    PS: Emailed.
    Post

  • Cassius Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    Just for the record too, I guess we could consider asking Peter St Andre directly about his thoughts. I have never had any communication with him in the past so I am not aware whether he is reachable or not.
    Post

  • Don Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    Epicurus is writing about two mistaken ideas about his philosophy here: he does not mean the pleasures of the profligates *nor* τας εν κειμένας απολαύσεις. He is refuting two mistaken understandings of his philosophy. He could very…
    Post

  • Elli Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    We can connect the whole issue on "the enjoyments of the profligates" with the VS 11 (see photo) the word "ναρκά" that used by Epicurus means "lethargy". However, a profligate is not in a situation that he is not doing anything, he is just prone to…
    Post

  • Elli Replied to the thread Letter to Menoikeus translation by Peter Saint-Andre.

    <τας εν κειμένας απολαύσεις> = <those that lie in enjoyments> [ those enjoyments that are out of limits] and this is what Epicurus means. :)

    1) "Κείμαι" is one greek word and means "I am, be located, I find myself, I lie around".
    2 ) "Kοιμάμαι" is…
    Post

Recent Articles From Our EpicureanFriends Blogs

Featured
Articles Of General Interest
Lucretius Today Interviews Dr. David Glidden on Epicurean Prolepsis
In Episode 166 the Lucretius Today podcasters interviewed Dr. David Glidden, professor emeritus from the University of California - Riverside, about his articles "Epicurean Prolepsis" and "Epicurean Thinking.

The podcast version and discussion is here:

Episode 166 - The Lucretius Today Podcast…


Read More

Cassius
0
Featured
Articles Of General Interest
Ten Key Steps In Epicurean Reasoning
Here is a listing of ten key steps of Epicurean reasoning. There is nothing magic about this grouping but it's an effort to combine a manageable set of key points with important citations supporting them:
  1. The best life (the goal) is a life completely filled with pleasures of many kinds from which
…


Read More

Cassius
0
Featured
Articles Of General Interest
Epicurus Answers Four of the Great Questions of Human Life
Several conversations lately have led me to want to produce a new article on what I would contend are some of the most important take-aways from the teachings of Epicurus. These are the points with which I would start if I were talking about Epicurus today with someone new. I prepared this for…


Read More

Cassius
Thanks 1
0
Elayne's Articles
A New Personal Philosophy: Hedonic Pragmatics
Friends, recent discussions have prompted me to finally get around to clarifying my own take on Epicurean Philosophy, which I have named "Hedonic Pragmatics"-- a new philosophy that is still closely connected to Epicurean Philosophy. I think what I've said would be fully supported by Epicurus, but…


Read More

Elayne
Like 1
0
Articles Of General Interest
Parsing The Wikipedia Introduction To Epicurus As Of February 6, 2020
Below is the Wikipedia introduction to Epicurus as of 02/06/20. I will highlight in red, and add a footnote to each statement which I contend is in serious need of correction or amplification.

(Quote)

[1] Calling Epicurus a "sage" adds nothing, but injects confusion, suggesting that this term…


Read More

Cassius
Love 2
2