So as far as "the end of civilization"
Well now I can imagine that there are as many ideas of what this would be like, as there are people -- and also differing ideas of: if or when. And I have my own thoughts as well. I sure hope that I am able to be with good friends, if that great misfortune ever does occur.
I sometimes think that we (in general, in today's world) aren't nearly anxious ENOUGH! We've blinded ourselves with religious-like incantions to endure the anxiety that ought to be there even more than it is now if we fully realized that the train is indeed coming down the track we're standing on.
That "train" being death? --- Or the end of civilization?
Either religion/"new age" self-help, or unnecessary consumerism -- Yet now I realize that unpleasant feelings sometimes help motivate action. But optimistic anxiety (knowing what needs to be done and doing it) may give better results than pessimistic anxiety (giving up/hopelessness). But at what point do you decide to keep "partying" even if the "Titanic" may be sinking?
It takes the support of a trusted friend to know you well enough to offer nuanced advice.
That can sometimes be difficult, as even friends don't fully understand the situation. Or you would need to have wise friends.
I wonder if some kinds of modern therapy or modern psychology can end up being a kind "false medicine"? I ask this question because if the fear of death is not adequately dealt with, then anxiety persists. I discovered recently that my own sister is taking anti-depressants (and yet she is a devout Christian so her religion seems like it isn't helping).
There are many fears in modern life that we must work through, and then the question is: Does Epicurean philosophy help remove the various fears that can arise?
I think that the fear of the future turning out badly is a primary fear among many. We can't enjoy life if we have fears about the future. And now it seems that climate change is a widespread stimulus for fear. The rate of inflation is also a stimulus for fear (especially among retired folks). Fear of future food shortages -- my own family recently sending text message on the family text thread about an egg shortage.
And then also we must think about what is rational, and what is actually true (and not just a news hype). And support each other in maintaining courage to face the unknowns of the future -- so wise friendship is very important.
I found this good post by Elli which highlights the "medicine" of Epicurus, as dealing with removing the fear of God (gods) and the fear of death. And that these two factors are the cause of the other fears which commonly plague the minds of many. If anyone has more to add or further questions, we could start dialog regarding this "Medicine of Epicurus". And I am wondering how hedonic calculus fits in, which normally I see as dealing with making choices in regard to pleasure. Maybe this is simple, or maybe there is more than what meets the eye?
Just two greek words that have the same root and these are the "farmako" which means the <<pill>> and the "farmaki" which means the <<poison>>.
"Frugalix" the newly invented medicine that a doctor gives to all of his patients without to examine the first causes and the details of the causes i.e. the symptoms of each one of his patient's illnesses. And then this doctor thinks that he gave the right farmako=pill that for many will be transformed into farmaki=poison. Sorry, but this one is not a doctor, he is a charlatan.
The letter to Meneoceus has such a strong structure that can't be unstructured by any charlatan because it is in accordance with the right study of Nature and the methodology of the Canon.
First thing first is that when someone has the desire to speak in public for EP, he has to examine what are the first causes that make the people for being greed, unfriendly and consumers without prudence. First, we examine the General Picture that is Nature, then we examine the causes, the details of the causes, the things akin to them and then we speak about the consequences. (see the ending paragraph to Pythocles)
The main causes
Fear of god
Fear of death
some details of the causes
Fear of pain
Fear to accept and withstand the reality
Fear to be responsible
Fear to be free
Fear to give and get on the basis of the common benefit that is the basis of friendship.
Fear or embarrassment to accept finally that pleasure is the goal in life as Nature has set for us.
And the tool/methodology
Ignorance of what is the tool/methodology and how Epicurus uses it for making the hedonic calculation that lead to the liberation of those fears.
The main causes and some details of the causes that make someone to be greed, unfriendly, lonely, harsh, arrogant, depressed and a consumer without prudence and that means also that the selling and buying of useless things is the placebo pill to cover the fear of death that is the most important fear that leads to the vicious circle of the mentioned as above fears that are decoded with behaviors that lead to the incoherence of a society and finally its decadence.
Epicurus in his letter to Meneoceus says to us for what purpose and how we can philosophize. He brings and is connecting all the concepts in real life for being experiences and for not being as abstractions and words without meaning. Then he examines the main causes i.e. the fears, some details of the causes and then he examines the consequences for giving his proposals e.g. the algorithm on the desires that lead the people to the : self-sufficiency that is connected with the right study of Nature that is connected with the generosity that is connected with freedom that is connected with prudence and all these that spring from the inner self that possesses eudaemonia which means that when someone possess eudaemonia he possesses himself i.e. he is FREE and that means also that he is not compromised and subordinated to his masters for living like andrapodo=slave.
And all these according to the circumstances of the experiences in the reality that measured rightly and prudently through the hedonic calculation for leading to the natural goal that is pure pleasure.
ES 49. It is impossible for someone to dispel his fears about the most important matters if he does not know the Nature of the universe but still gives some credence to myths. So without the study of Nature there is no enjoyment of pure pleasure. (see Principle Doctrine 12).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Beauty and virtue and such are worthy of honor, if they bring pleasure; but if not then bid them farewell!
You can find the original post here.
This thread is for food (and food as medicine) in the time of Epicureans in ancient Greece and Rome.
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Regarding honey in ancient times:
In Athens, beekeeping was so organized that the great legislator Solon (640-558 BC) was forced to define by law the distances that should exist between apiaries so as not to create misunderstandings about the ownership of flocks.
They did not have sugar, but they had honey, as part of their diet and medicine.
Some of the ways in which the ancient Greeks used honey in their daily lives were the following:
Acid honey. Honey with vinegar. How to deal with fever.
Apple honey. Apples preserved in honey throughout the year. The honey acquired the characteristic smell of apples. They parsed the same recipe with other fruits.
Mead honey. Liqueur resulting from alcoholic fermentation of honey.
Melikrato. Honey with milk. Food for children.
Wine honey. Honey with wine. It is reported that Democritus lived to a ripe old age because he consumed wine honey with bread.
Hippocrates excludes the beneficial effect of “wine honey” on healthy and sick, Pythagoras finds that honey eliminates fatigue, while Democritus writes about well-being and longevity because of honey.
3- "that Pleasure can be complete when it fills out experience, and thus we don't always need more" (PD3)
There are certain pleasures in which one must take care -- PD3 ought to be combined with PD8 -- especially when eating dessert -- because the bad result doesn't come till later on, after you have eaten too much. At a family gathering today, the adults knew how to apply reason with regard to limiting the quantity of dessert, but my great-nephews and great niece wanted to have third helpings of dessert -- their mom had to tell them they had already had enough.
...sugar also triggers the mesocorticolimbic system, known as the “reward pathway,” in the brain. When we consume sugar, the prefrontal cortex, amygdala, ventral-tegmental area, and nucleus accumbens are stimulated, releasing dopamine. After sugar triggers this system, we’re left craving more, because these parts of the brain are responsible for behavior reinforcement, pleasure-seeking, and addiction, according to a study published in Neuroscience & Biobehavioral Reviews in 2019.
“Epicurus is occasionally described as as a saviour (sōtér) or messenger (kéryx), terms which are also used by Epicureans themselves and are reminiscient of Old Testament expressions. Perhaps such a choice of words was intended as a kind of ‘competitive offer’ to the blossoming Christianity.” (The Cambridge Companion to Epicureanism 53)
The current understanding of the word "saviour" comes to us by the Christian faith in Jesus being eternal/immortal and all powerful. I would doubt Epicureans felt that way about Epicurus. The word "messenger" implies that the message is coming from God (or the gods), but then maybe there was a different understanding of this word back then. Could it be that back in time there were groups of Christian Epicureans, or groups that converted from Christianity to Epicureanism?
Further thought on prayer (and regarding post # 1 of this thread) -- I have a hard time with the idea that Epicureans prayed to the gods "on purpose". And my understanding of the importance of birthdays in Epicureanism is that this could either take the place of sacrifice to the gods, or as a way to establish a ritual which would focus the minds of Epicureans on mortality and friendship -- hey, we are mortal and only live this one life, so let's honor human lives with birthday celebrations, and also friendship being a reason to celebrate birthdays. Can we really know one way or another?
“[P]etitionary prayer to the gods is obviously, for an Epicurean, of no avail; and, indeed, as Epicurus says in his Vatican sayings 65, it is pointless to pray for happiness which a man can provide for himself. If the gods paid attention to human prayers the human race would long since have become extinct since men are continually praying for calamities to fall upon their enemies [...] Yet Epicurus recommend prayer, on the grounds that it is a natural act and that one should also participate in the religious life of one’s country,
Thanks for sharing this about prayer. Now in modern times Christian people are praying for things that they want (and not against enemies). Since I am currently living with and near family, I am often in a "strange situation" in which I have to "pretend" to pray out of kindness and respect to my family. I do feel that there is something about the situation that is parallel to what Epicureans must have encountered. There is something comforting in being clear about my own thoughts on God and death. So I can "pretend pray" without feeling uncomfortable.
Some thoughts regarding the question: "Is there a notion of cultivating "sensitivity" in Epicureanism".
I would say that for myself, I am cultivating the ability to be aware and to reason regarding the nature of pleasure and pain in my body and mind. This would be based on several of the Principle Doctrines.
PD8 -"No pleasure is bad in itself; but the means of paying for some pleasures bring with them disturbances many times greater than the pleasures themselves."
PD29 -"Among desires, some are natural and necesary, some are natural and unnecessary, and some are unnatural and unnecessary (arising instead from groundless opinion).
I've mainly been intrigued with the ideas in Internal Family Systems therapy, where the mind is seen as having a multiplicity of personalities that we engage with in a social way in the therapeutic space (the inner critics, the inner children, ect). The angry inner voices are "entities" we should engage with.
I am not familar with this therapy, nor the others you mention.
You might like to look into the writings of Philodemus "On Anger". I haven't studied it, but Don has, and could point to threads or material to read.
Some further thoughts -- Modern therapy is very different than Epicureanism, and according to this Wikipedia article on psychotherapy, is thought to have begun in 1879. And now there are many new therapies, which may not be "evidence based". I hold a materialist and scientific understanding of the world, and so personally I would avoid any therapy which is not scientifically tested. Here is a website explaining evidence based therapy.
I got a lot of pleasure and a settled mind in doing the work,
That sounds great! So if you find it is helpful and leads to more enjoyment (and less pain) that sounds like it is good for you. We each find pleasure in many different ways. Others here on the forum have other avenues in which they seek pleasure. Life really presents a "smorgasbord" of pleasure, we just need to open up to it. 
Thank you Cassius, I like this list!
I would personally rephrase # 2
2 - "that anything we cannot sense is irrelevant to us and thus the state of being dead can cause us no harm or good" (PD2)
Consciousness depends on the body, without consciousness we cannot sense or even think, and thus the state of being dead can cause us no harm or good.
So it seems we need to keep in mind these two approaches, with regard to certain PDs:
1) logical postions against opposing philosophical schools
2) therapeutic interpretations
Welcome DavidN
From your name, I am guessing you were at last night's Open Invitation Epicurean Zoom?
Nature’s wants are slight; the demands of opinion are boundless.
This quote is from post # 5 above -- This would be PD15. And it is expanding on the idea of "limits" on pleasure from a slightly different angle than PD3. In a sense it is a blend of both Plato's and Epicurus' arguments.
I think modern civilization is inseparable from the "demands of opinion" -- the idea that clothing, cars, homes, etc must all look new or well kept. And we recognize classes of people by their appearance and the appearance of their possessions, or by the state of the neighborhoods in which they live. These kinds of pleasures have no limit. You will have to invest time and effort toward these pleasures -- and much more difficult to fulfill for those who do not have enough money to spend -- and in some situations people work long and hard hours to fulfill these pleasures, so that any pleasure gained by this means is negated by the time and stress. And then this points also toward what types of pleasures to pursue, and that "natural" pleasures can be fullfilled and are achievable (thus have a limit) -- and give a longer lasting feeling of fullfillment.
Or:
---Plato said that the craving for pleasure has no end, and thus leads to wickedness.
But Epicurus said the craving for pleasure ends with the removal of all bodily pain and mental distress.
Based on the above, could the following be correct?
---Plato said that the craving for pleasure has no end, and thus leads to wickedness.
But Epicurus said pleasure is fulfilled and ends all craving, with the removal of all bodily pain and mental distress.
A Roman copy, production date: AD 1 - 160
Images of Epicurus -- I notice subtle differences in various renderings and sculptures -- subtle differences in the facial expression of the mouth. Can post more soon. Found this recently (not sure if it is on the forum in another location).
Epicurus face reconstruction
As I shall argue, these sections provide no evidence in favor of the sup-position that Epicureans believed that gods exist outside the minds of humans.
Wow, this article looks really good!
Just yesterday found this interesting article, which Don will likely appreciate (given that touches on the Greek words).
Here is an excerpt:
2Commentators have so far discussed the complex intertextual relationship between the epigram and similar poems, especially Catullus 13 (invitation of Fabullus)3 and the whole sub-genre of Latin invitation poems which seems to be inspired by the epigram. Others have focused on the poem’s implications for our understanding of the social interactions between client and patronus in Roman society of the first century BCE.4 Its content also invites comparison with a group of Hellenistic epigrams dealing with dinner-invitations, dinner-preparations or feasting. Less well noticed are the epic ramifications of the poem and the way they might further our interpretation of its content.5
3The poem’s tension rests on the contrast between the simple meal in a simple setting and the exquisite entertainment provided by faithful friends.
