Posts by Kalosyni

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  • Philodemus - On Frank Speech

    Quote from Don

    It strikes me that the Garden provided an environment where the student genuinely wanted to follow the path of Epicurus, and the teacher genuinely wanted to help the student. Some students may have been more amenable to this correction than others, but that didn't stop the teacher from administering the medicine.

    Even if at times there was frank speech between two students, I can imagine that it was based on the teachings (it wouldn't be random). It seems that between students the frank speech would have been cited/referenced to specific teachings which were found in Epicurus' books.

    Some questions to consider (and if anyone wants to reply):

    At what point does frank speech come across as rude, harsh, or insensitive? Is the phrase "frank speech" ever used to justify harsh speech? What is harsh speech and when should we avoid it? And, what kinds of word choices appear to have a domineering, shaming, or power-over (controlling) attitude? When is frank speech just an expression of anger and a kind of punishment?

  • Epicureanism as the spiritual essence or 'religion' of an entire community

    Quote from Peter Konstans

    To what extent can the views and advice of brilliant therapists or educators like John Gottman, Gigi Engle or Dan Buettner be thought of as Epicurean and admitted in some form in the 'scriptures' and literature of Epicureanism?

    The writings of Epicurus can be seen as guides to wisdom, and much of what he wrote was lost. We read and study the extant remains as helpful hints for how to live a joyous life. Since here on this forum we are not eclectic, then John Gottman and others would not be added to scriptures.

    Epicurus presents a theory of living, and then it is up to each person to bring that theory into practical life. There is a small section on this forum for Epicurean lifestyle questions, and it moves beyond theory with the intention to ground it in the frame work of the Epicurean world-view.

    Modern knowledge and psychology has uncovered new ways to understand the world and life that is much more advanced as compared to when Epicurus was alive. I see modern psychology as fitting into the Epicurean world-view when they meet the criteria of the philosophy of Epicurus - how to make good choices, how to understand death, and the place of pleasure and pain in life, etc. If modern psychology leads to pleasure and the happiness of the soul, as a subjective experience for each individual, then each individual can choose to apply that for themselves. The theory of Epicurus remains as the frame or backbone.

    Because Epicureanism is an open system of thinking, it is difficult for me to see it as a "religion". Religion often seems to require stiff and absolute thinking or the use of attitudes such as "must", "should", and "have to" which is not the best way to live. So for myself the word "philosophy" works best.

  • Welcome Peter Konstans!

    Quote from Peter Konstans

    Hi Kalosyni :) Yes I see myself as an Epicurean. Your username is modern Greek for goodness. Since you use modern Greek I suspect you're Greek, right? Same here. Greetings from Laconia

    Thank you, no I'm not Greek, but I admire aspects of Greek culture (both modern and ancient). Born in the USA and now living in South Carolina USA. I chose my forum name because I wanted to reflect on how kindness is a joy that leads to pleasure (it appeared to me that it meant "kindness", but I don't speak Greek so I was relying on the internet for the word meaning).

  • Verifying membership status / deletion of inactivated accounts

    Just an fyi...All new members who have not replied to their welcome thread are in process of being deleted.

    Our welcome thread states the following:

    "Note: In order to minimize spam registrations, all new registrants must respond here in this thread to this welcome message within 72 hours of its posting, or their account is subject to deletion. Please introduce yourself -- tell us what prompted your interest in Epicureanism, a little about yourself, and/or post a question."

    We've been giving a bit of a grace period...So following up on this now.

  • Welcome Ayden Newman!

    Thank you AydenNewman - Level 01 membership remains open. AydenNewman has posted over in this other thread:

  • Article: The Ethical Implications of Epicurus' Theology by Stefano Mecci

    Quote from Cassius

    A proper attitude toward divinity has a very important impact on the way we live. But I will say as to the earlier parts of the article that no prolepsis or anticipation or logical deduction or image or anything else can in my world lead to a divinity which is totally inactive in its own sphere.

    I am going to jump in without having read the article, to hypothesize that perhaps the blissfulness (and happiness) of the gods as seen by Epicurus is because he sees them as having perfected prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance in a manner in which the virtues are used as a tool for happiness...and thus the gods are to be emulated. So that the virtues aren't end, but only the means to the blissfulness.

  • For Me Personally, The Most Fundamental Attitudinal Adjustment That Comes From Epicurean Philosophy: "Live Like You Were Dying"

    Quote from Cassius

    For me, there is no way that Epicurean philosophy can be understood properly without always keeping in mind this core idea: that we are mortal and that we need to "live like we are dying" - because we are.

    I think that there are many ways to expand upon this, because we are also animals who have a life expectancy depending on our health. So we need to take that into consideration. If a doctor visit reveals matastesized cancer then that person is going to make different choices than a person who has potentially 50 more years to live.

    It costs money to do things like travel and going sky-diving (or other activities of choice) and so it's a balance between enjoying one's health and vitality (being active and doing things) and considering one's life expectancy. But when you realize what is most important to you, then you can determine the "opportunity cost" involved. And we only have so much time, so we have to make peace with that as well, since it is possible to have lots of projects that we want to finish, but that we may not actually be able to finish them all.

    Quote

    In microeconomic theory, the opportunity cost of a choice is the value of the best alternative forgone where, given limited resources, a choice needs to be made between several mutually exclusive alternatives. Assuming the best choice is made, it is the "cost" incurred by not enjoying the benefit that would have been had by taking the second best available choice.[1] The New Oxford American Dictionary defines it as "the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen." As a representation of the relationship between scarcity and choice,[2] the objective of opportunity cost is to ensure efficient use of scarce resources.[3] It incorporates all associated costs of a decision, both explicit and implicit.[4] Thus, opportunity costs are not restricted to monetary or financial costs: the real cost of output forgone, lost time, pleasure, or any other benefit that provides utility should also be considered an opportunity cost.

    Source: Wikipedia

    Regarding the quote from Lucretius, Book 3 :1053 - that is a description of a person who is "lost" and feels restless, anxious, and bored. And that individual definetly needs to take a metaphorical drink of wormwood (rimmed with honey!). The wormwood is bitter and so is the contemplation on one's own death. And this type of person is going to likely need to "take the treatment" multiple times.

    Perhaps talking and eating cake at a "death cafe" meeting.

  • The Description of Epicurean Philosophy on Reddit

    Here's what is happening on the r/Epicureanism on Reddit...found their introductory description:

  • Explaining Epicurean Physics In One Paragraph (in rebuttal of ideas such as the "multiverse")

    When announcing/advertizing an in person meet-up, I am thinking that it would be important to state the basic underlying ideas of Epicurean physics in a paragraph with just a few sentences.

    This will make it more clear as to whom would want to join. There is no need to appeal to those who on the one hand have religious belief that God created the universe and is concerned about humans (and feel that everything is according to God's plan). And on the other hand there are those who might have a "new-age/visionary/magical" take on the universe (and which might include things such things as belief in multiverses, or other ideas such as healing at a distance and taping into the vibrations of the universe, etc).

    This basic paragraph should say: that matter at its most basic level of atoms and void is "semper existentia" (always existing).

    And it also should say: that we observe phenomenon and then look for causes, and we don't jump to any conclusions too early - and most importantly we only look at what is part of current life and actual circumstances grounded in reality, and with a pragmatic approach.

    This also brings up the question: that we seek to understand natural physics because we seek pleasure and the most pleasant life. But like the chicken and the egg which came first? (Over in another thread I started wondering if Epicurus invested more time into natural physics compared to ethics. But for the record, I am back to my original focus of seeing the ethics as being the primary importance).

    Just thinking that anyone who ends up chasing theories like multiverses will end up so distracted that they may never make it over to study the ethics aspects of Epicurean philosophy.

  • Creating a "Seven Steps to the Ethics of Epicurus"

    Creating Seven Steps...a thread which I started some weeks ago, almost fell back in the vast ocean of this forum. By chance found it again, spurred on by the recent very good posting by Titus - which you can read his very good thoughts on ethics over on his personal outline thread:

    Post

    RE: Titus' personal outline

    (3) The nature of how to live.

    This could also be seen as a continuation of the Epicurean Philosophy Navigation Chart to expand the Ethics. A preliminary list of topics that are important to me:

    1. Awareness of becoming and passing away, consciousness of life and death in respect to the nature of the universe, processuality of life

    2. Pursuing/Focussing the natural desires which

    a.) is Nature's yardstick for happiness

    b.) leads to self-sufficiency and autarky

    c.) reveals life as an inexhaustible…
    Titus
    September 21, 2023 at 4:46 AM

    I definitely would like to include what Titus has written into the mix here in this thread and possibly for further development on materials - I really want to move forward the idea that I have for either a "7 Steps" or maybe a "Handbook on Epicurean Ethics".

  • Study Done on Loneliness & Self-Centeredness (an article) & VS23

    Some further thoughts reflecting on the above article on "self-centeredness". I think a better description of "self-centeredness" is a habit of focusing only one oneself. Everyone naturally has this trait because it is a self-preservation instinct. But some people have more of this than others. Also, in our current modern times, with the internet, digital books, and digital music we can easily entertain ourselves (by ourselves) without the "hassle" of negotiating with whom and what to do. So we can keep feelings of loneliness at bay, but at the expense of interacting with other people. And imagine how many people use their spare time in this way, so that very few people are available or looking to make new friends.

    I bring this up because perhaps some of us need to remind ourselves to take a break away from self-centered activities and reach out to others - and as PD27 says:

    "Of all the things which wisdom acquires to produce the blessedness of the complete life, far the greatest is the possession of friendship."

  • Study Done on Loneliness & Self-Centeredness (an article) & VS23

    Vatican Saying 23: "Every friendship is an excellence in itself, even though it begins in mutual advantage."

    The following article brings up the idea that to reduce loneliness you need to work on reducing self-centeredness.

    Quote

    Research conducted over more than a decade indicates that loneliness increases self-centeredness and, to a lesser extent, self-centeredness also increases loneliness.

    The findings by researchers at the University of Chicago show such effects create a positive feedback loop between the two traits: As increased loneliness heightens self-centeredness, the latter then contributes further to enhanced loneliness.

    “If you get more self-centered, you run the risk of staying locked in to feeling socially isolated,” said John Cacioppo, the Tiffany and Margaret Blake Distinguished Service Professor in Psychology and director of the Center for Cognitive and Social Neuroscience.

    Quote

    In this view, evolution has shaped the brain to incline humans toward certain emotions, thoughts and behavior. “A variety of biological mechanisms have evolved that capitalize on aversive signals to motivate us to act in ways that are essential for our reproduction or survival,” the UChicago co-authors wrote. From that perspective, loneliness serves as the psychological counterpart of physical pain.

    “Physical pain is an aversive signal that alerts us of potential tissue damange and motivates us to take care of our physical body,” the UChicago researchers wrote. Loneliness, meanwhile, is part of a warning system that motivates people to repair or replace their deficient social relationships.

    Quote

    Evolution of loneliness

    The finding that loneliness tends to increase self-centeredness fits the evolutionary interpretation of loneliness. From an evolutionary-biological viewpoint, people have to be concerned with their own interests. The pressures of modern society, however, are significantly different from those that prevailed when loneliness evolved in the human species, researchers found.

    “Humans evolved to become such a powerful species, in large part due to mutual aid and protection and the changes in the brain that proved adaptive in social interactions,” John Cacioppo said. “When we don’t have mutual aid and protection, we are more likely to become focused on our own interests and welfare. That is, we become more self-centered.”

    In modern society, becoming more self-centered protects lonely people in the short term but not the long term. That’s because the harmful effects of loneliness accrue over time to reduce a person’s health and well-being.

    “This evolutionarily adaptive response may have helped people survive in ancient times, but in contemporary society may well make it harder for people to get out of feelings of loneliness,” John Cacioppo said.

    When humans are at their best, they provide mutual aid and protection, Stephanie Cacioppo added. “It isn’t that one individual is sacrificial to the other. It’s that together they do more than the sum of the parts. Loneliness undercuts that focus and really makes you focus on only your interests at the expense of others.”

    Loneliness contributes to self-centeredness for sake of self-preservation
    Study finds positive feedback loop between behaviors
    news.uchicago.edu

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