Posts by Kalosyni

Quote from Godfrey

When we make choices using whatever degree of free will that's available to us, the effects of those choices form "ripples" in the deterministic fabric. These ripples then determine subsequent events up to the point at which free will occurs in those events. And so on, ad infinitum. ...

...

....Other than a sense of agency v nihilism, what are the practical implications of this debate?

In the 3rd video (by the School of Life) that Don posted above in post 36, it brings up "Defeatism vs. Aspiration". (I did not like that Stoic story about human beings being like "dogs tied to an unpredicatable cart" because it doesn't illuminate anything about how we actually navigate or problem solve).

Thinking further, our competence and skill in life comes about through our belief in our ability to affect things, change things, learn things, and problem solve -- these all require a strong feeling of agency (or "free will").

There is a 12-step AA Serenity Prayer: "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

For our own Epicurean purposes this could be rephrased:

May I know and put skillful effort into what I need do. May I make peace with that which is beyond my sphere of influence. And may I have the wisdom to discern the difference between what I can and cannot change.

(This could be said many different ways).

tariq Welcome to the forum!

Just out of curiousity:

Kalosyni created a new event:

Event

First Monday Epicurean Philosophy Discussion Hour - Via Zoom 8pm ET

Join us every first Monday of the month for our First Monday Epicurean Philosophy Hour - Via Zoom - at 8pm ET.

This is an informal Epicurean philosophy discussion. We'll start with a meet-and-greet, and then open it up for discussion. On some months we may also give a short presentation on Epicurean philosophy or a have a special discussion topic which focuses on the application of Epicureanism to everyday life.

This monthly gathering is a great way to meet others who are studying the philosophy,…

Mon, Jan 1st 2024, 8:00 pm – 9:00 pm

Kalosyni

December 29, 2023 at 3:33 PM

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Join us every first Monday of the month for our First Monday Epicurean Philosophy Hour - Via Zoom - at 8pm ET.

This is an informal Epicurean philosophy discussion. We'll start with a meet-and-greet, and then open it up for discussion. On some months we may also give a short presentation on Epicurean philosophy or a have a special discussion topic which focuses on the application of Epicureanism to everyday life.

This monthly gathering is a great way to meet others who are studying the philosophy, and provides an opportunity to bring up questions.

If you are a new member, please be sure that you have already introduced yourself over in your personal Welcome Thread (tell us a little about your background or area of interest within Epicureanism, your level of study, or any previous philosophy studies).

If you are interesting in attending, please let us know over in the event thread First Monday Epicurean Philosophy Hour.

Cassius, I think the upgrade is quite spectacular!!! It may take a little time to get used to the new changes, but the interface looks much more modern now.

The posts lost yesterday may have been by the following members:

Onenski  Don  Godfrey  BrainToBeing  Pacatus  Martin

(and also myself and Cassius)

So it seems right now (today 12-19-23) if anyone posts that it could be lost if the system crashes again? I just posted something ... I can copy (save on my system) what I posted just in case. Probably best to refrain from posting like Cassius requested in the orange boxed notification (which I didn't see till after posting).

Quote from Onenski

Skepticism about free will, I think, is a personal position of mine, and it is perhaps the one that makes me wonder things like: if the study of nature pointed out that we do not have free will, would Epicurus accept it?

Can I assume that if I were to say: "There is no such thing as free will" that this means that I am not actually choosing anything and that everything always is predetermined by forces outside of my conscious mind? Such that we are saying that what appears to be free will is just an illusion? Or can we say "free will" = an individual's ability to choose.

Quote from Cassius

In the case of free will, Epicurus is being very clear that some things are determined while others are not. Both are affirmed to be true.

Here is an example: I drink a large cup of tea. I then need to go pee. There is something in my mind which is registering pleasure and pain sensations throughout my body, and it is also balanced by my awareness of mental thoughts. Perhaps I am sitting with friends and I want to hear someone finish a story so I sit and wait till the end, and then excuse myself. But maybe I am fed up with hearing a story, so I leave before the end. There are millions of insignificant events that can't possibly be predetermined. As we become more aware of how to skillfully deal with pleasure and pain, it actually increases our ability to freely choose.

I have more thoughts on this but perhaps I will add more later

• Wednesday, December 27, 2023
• Please join us. (Post here in this thread if you have never attended one of these sessions as we have an approval process for new participants.)
• Vatican Sayings 54 and 55
  • VS54

    We must not pretend to study philosophy, but study it in reality, for it is not the appearance of health that we need, but real health.

    
    
  • VS55

    We must heal our misfortunes by the grateful recollection of what has been, and by the recognition that it is impossible to undo that which has been done.

  • 
    
• Old matters to address

• Any current threads

• Discuss latest podcast

• Any new matters for next week's Agenda

Next Monday is our First Monday Zoom on January 1st!

This Meet-and-greet and Epicurean philosophy discussion is a great way for both long-time members -and- new members to meet with others who are studying the philosophy of Epicurus -- and as the Letter to Menoeceus says: "So practice these and similar things day and night, by yourself and with a like-minded friend, and you will never be disturbed whether waking or sleeping, and you will live as a god among men: for a man who lives in the midst of immortal good is unlike a merely mortal being."

If you haven't yet participated in a First Monday Zoom meeting, please message Cassius for further info.

Agenda for the evening: We will run about an hour, and start with greetings. Since this will be the first day of the new year, a great topic to discuss is VS48 and the intersection of pleasure, planning, and New Year resolutions -- We'll have a few questions to throw out to spur on the discussion, and we'll also leave some time for open discussion as well, and Q&A for any who have questions.

Hope to see you there!

General Overview:

Join us on the first Monday of every month for our forum-wide meet-and-greet and Epicurean philosophy discussion, for registered members of EpicureanFriends.com. Each month we present a special discussion topic, and these will be announced in the dedicated thread for each specific meeting.

For new members who have not attended any previous Zoom meetings: please be sure that you have posted in your personal Welcome Thread, with an introduction of yourself and any background info (such as any previous Epicurean philosophy studies or any other previous philosophy studies). Then let us know if you would like to attend a specific meeting by posting your request into the dedicated specific meeting date. (If you have any questions message Cassius or Kalosyni).

I found this poem, which reminds me of that poem by Philodemus inviting Piso:

Inviting a Friend to Supper

By Ben Jonson

Tonight, grave sir, both my poor house, and I

Do equally desire your company;

Not that we think us worthy such a guest,

But that your worth will dignify our feast

With those that come, whose grace may make that seem

Something, which else could hope for no esteem.

It is the fair acceptance, sir, creates

The entertainment perfect, not the cates.

Yet shall you have, to rectify your palate,

An olive, capers, or some better salad

Ushering the mutton; with a short-legged hen,

If we can get her, full of eggs, and then

Lemons, and wine for sauce; to these a cony

Is not to be despaired of, for our money;

And, though fowl now be scarce, yet there are clerks,

The sky not falling, think we may have larks.

I’ll tell you of more, and lie, so you will come:

Of partridge, pheasant, woodcock, of which some

May yet be there, and godwit, if we can;

Knat, rail, and ruff too. Howsoe’er, my man

Shall read a piece of Virgil, Tacitus,

Livy, or of some better book to us,

Of which we’ll speak our minds, amidst our meat;

And I’ll profess no verses to repeat.

To this, if ought appear which I not know of,

That will the pastry, not my paper, show of.

Digestive cheese and fruit there sure will be;

But that which most doth take my Muse and me,

Is a pure cup of rich Canary wine,

Which is the Mermaid’s now, but shall be mine;

Of which had Horace, or Anacreon tasted,

Their lives, as so their lines, till now had lasted.

Tobacco, nectar, or the Thespian spring,

Are all but Luther's beer to this I sing.

Of this we will sup free, but moderately,

And we will have no Pooley, or Parrot by,

Nor shall our cups make any guilty men;

But, at our parting we will be as when

We innocently met. No simple word

That shall be uttered at our mirthful board,

Shall make us sad next morning or affright

The liberty that we’ll enjoy tonight.

Quote from Pacatus

but I was struck by the reference (quoting the SOFE folk) to Eikas as a kind of “sabbath.”

Thanks Pacatus, this article presents the Epicurean practice of Eikas, and it is mostly a good write-up. I think it may be important that as we move forward, we make sure to describe what we do much more precisely as well as avoid calling it an "Epicurean sabbath" -- especially since Epicureanism is very different than the Jewish faith, and we have very different beliefs -- and Epicureanism is a philosophy not a religion.

For now we refer to the Twentieth as a "commemoration" / "gathering" / "celebration".

...and by the way...Happy Twentieth everyone!

...and Happy Winter Solstice too! (tomorrow)

I've been listening to these lectures (one per book - a total of 6 separate videos) and he mentions in part 2 (on book 2) that there appears to be a missing section of the text, because it skips suddenly to speaking about the gods. It's possible that this is most observable in the Latin text - have not located the section yet (not able to read Latin, and tried finding it in the English translation at the Perseus-Tufts site).

I think these are very good lectures, as I've only skimmed parts of Lucretius, and so this helps flesh it out.

From Martin's photo we can see that it is a very straight look on the lips of Epicurus. Also he seems to be looking downward -- if you factor in that the statue is placed upon a pedestal then you see that that downward gaze is actually a place of power, as he is looking down at the viewer (the pedestal lifts up the form slightly higher than the viewer). So it seems that this seriousness conveys power.

As for a smile, it can convey comraderie, affection, and enjoyment and as modern people I can see that we do need that conveyed at times, whether in one's imagination or in new artistic works.

And as far as creating more graphics which show Epicurus extolling the teachings, I would appreciate anyone uploading images (both serious or slight smile) which you think would help convey wisdom and the aura of a great teacher. And specifically state those that you think would work in graphics.

Welcome kasprowy !

Just in case anyone else is interested...I wanted to share what I've been finding regarding space weather, and since we are nearing the solar maximum of sun flares and sun spots.

This is interesting to me both because of the science and also because I am attempting to assess the probability of whether or not a strong CME might hit Earth and affect technology, the electrical grid, and of course the internet.

At first glance it may seem like a "dooms-day" scenario, but as I've been reading that there is as high as a 25 percent probability of something really strong occuring (have to go back and find the source on that statistic).

For myself, it seems relevant to the Epicurean understanding of the nature of things...and also it lends itself to remembering to consider self-sufficiency (although I am no prepper, but possibly this may turn me into becoming one ).

So from a purely scientific stand-point here are five webpages:

Space weather: What is it and how is it predicted?

Space weather can wreak havoc on our technological world.

www.space.com

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There are two distinct types of solar storm: Geomagnetic storms and solar radiation storms.

The first of these refers to strong disturbances to Earth's magnetic field caused by ejected solar material called a coronal mass ejection (CME). The second. refers to a stream of much faster moving particles ejected by the sun. According to NOAA's National Weather Service, solar radiation storms involve large quantities of protons and electrons which bathe the near-Earth satellite environment, these storms can last from a few hours to days, depending on the magnitude of the eruption.

A large solar storm could knock out the internet and power grid — an electrical engineer explains how

Every few centuries the Sun blasts Earth with a huge amount of high-energy particles. If it were to happen today, it would wreak havoc on technology.

www.astronomy.com

Space Weather Enthusiasts Dashboard | NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center

NOAA Space Weather Scales | NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center

Space weather effects on technology

Martin do you have any close-up (just the face) and straight-on photos of Epicurus from your museum tour?

As I look at all the images that Eikadistes shared, it does seem that the low brow bone and furrowed forehead is a distinctive feature of Epicurus' face.