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Posts by Kalosyni

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  • What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity?

    • Kalosyni
    • June 6, 2025 at 8:39 AM

    Confirmation bias is a big reason why people retain superstitious or unscientific beliefs.

    I did a further Google search and here are the results:

    People hold unscientific beliefs, even in the absence of evidence, due to a combination of psychological, social, and cultural factors

    Here are some reasons:

    1. Psychological Factors:
      • People tend to stick to their initial beliefs and favor information that confirms them, which makes it hard to accept contradictory evidence.
      • There is a tendency to overestimate our understanding of complex issues and prefer simple explanations, even if inaccurate.
      • Holding strong beliefs can reduce anxiety caused by uncertainty.
      • People may rationalize information to align with their identities, accepting what supports their views and rejecting what doesn't.
    2. Social and Cultural Influences:
      • Beliefs are often based on intuition, trust, personal experience, or trust in others, which can lead to false beliefs if trust is misplaced.
      • Social environment, including family and culture, shapes beliefs, and people may adopt beliefs to fit in.
      • Exposure to false information, both intentional and unintentional, contributes to unscientific beliefs.
      • Information that evokes strong emotions is more likely to be believed and shared.
    3. Lack of Critical Thinking Skills:
      • Difficulty in evaluating information and comparing it with existing knowledge makes people susceptible to plausible misinformation.
      • Low analytical reasoning and numeracy skills can also increase susceptibility to misinformation.
    4. Pseudoscience and Misinformation:
      • Pseudoscience, which presents itself as scientific but lacks a scientific basis, can deceive individuals.
      • Social media can facilitate the rapid spread of misinformation and pseudoscience.

    Ultimately, human cognitive tendencies towards narratives, emotions, and social connection can sometimes override the ability to objectively evaluate information and evidence.

  • What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity?

    • Kalosyni
    • June 5, 2025 at 5:53 PM

    When ever talking about "science" consider the following, as a tool against pseudo-science (and to spot when science is done "poorly"):

    The Baloney Detection Kit, by Carl Sagan:

    Post

    Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit

    Thanks to @Philia for this link! https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/01/03/bal…kit-carl-sagan/

    Probably the most important part - two lists:

    Nine Tools of Baloney Detection

    1. Wherever possible there must be independent confirmation of the “facts.”
    2. Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view.
    3. Arguments from authority carry little weight — “authorities” have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better
    …
    Cassius
    September 21, 2021 at 11:15 AM

    It's from a very good book, by Carl Sagan: "The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark"

  • What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity?

    • Kalosyni
    • June 5, 2025 at 9:07 AM

    Further thoughts on the original question: "What fears does modern science remove?'

    Modern science can usually diagnose diseases so that you can know if you have a terminal illness or something curable...and so in that way can sometimes reduce anxiety.

    Modern science hasn't produced definitve answers for everything, so then fears will remain. We then need to go back to the Epicurean philosophy and work with our basic existential issues, in order to manage fears. I am adding in these links for anyone who happens to be reading this thread (there are of course many other threads on the forum dealing with these issues):

    --Fear of dying - see this section of the forum:

    Dealing With Death, Dying, And Old Age

    --Fear of pain - see this thread:

    Thread

    What is terrible is easy to endure

    What is terrible is easy to endure. (fourth point of the Tetrapharmakos) and also:

    PD 4 - Pain does not last continuously in the flesh; instead, the sharpest pain lasts the shortest time, a pain that exceeds bodily pleasure lasts only a few days, and diseases that last a long time involve delights that exceed their pains.

    We've talked about this in many other threads, and maybe could use this thread to post links to previous discussions.
    Kalosyni
    October 17, 2024 at 3:00 PM

    --What can I control? ...Choices and avoidances, but some things still happen by chance. For free will read this article:

    Article

    "Free Will In Epicurean Philosophy" - by Dimitris Liarmakopoulos

    Elli Pensa has translated for us the following article by a Greek student of Epicurus, Dimitris Liarmakopoulos.
    Elli
    May 17, 2019 at 6:40 PM

  • What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity?

    • Kalosyni
    • June 4, 2025 at 10:17 PM
    Quote from sanantoniogarden

    It's in these new found fears and anxieties. Genetic predispositions to painful or deadly diseases can make some feel trapped by some biological destiny. Psychology or neuroscience can also make some feel trapped by brain chemistry or childhood experiences (even compound the anxiety of biological destiny). Climate change can be the source of much existential dread. The interesting question is how does the Epicurean respond to these new problems?

    I am trying to remember what Epicurean philosophy says about length of life/a complete life.

    The need to deal with the fear of death would be the antidote here. Also the need to understand free will and the ability to employ wise choice and avoidance. And to deal with fear of pain itself. All these are dealt with in Epicurean philosophy.

    I'll try to find and link to previous discussions on these topics tomorrow (unless anyone else wants to post here).

  • What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity?

    • Kalosyni
    • June 4, 2025 at 9:46 PM

    We need to balance it all with the fact that before modern medicine the infant/mother mortality rate and the mortality rate in general was much higher. Also in modern times, more safety for more people (much less warfare, although depending on when/where you are living).

  • What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity?

    • Kalosyni
    • June 4, 2025 at 1:28 PM

    On the flip side, you could say that modern science has resulted in germ-warfare and nuclear weapons. Also, modern medicine has the ability to resuscitate an unconscious person and prolong "life" (in a vegetative state). Unless you have a "Do not attempt resuscitation order", CPR will be performed on you (no matter how old you are or your condition - read about it here) and even though it has a low likelihood of success in certain conditions.

    We must remember the Epicurean idea that it isn't the longest life but the most pleasant (whenever discussion of the doomsday clock comes up).

  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 3, 2025 at 11:34 AM
    Quote from Rolf

    That said, I think we can both agree that ice cream is not necessary for a pleasant life.

    What!!!? Ice cream isn't necessary? (lol :D) That's like saying sex isn't necessary! :D

    For the most pleasant life I would recommend both. :D

    But I think you could still be happy with vanilla yogurt and massages. :saint:^^

  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 3, 2025 at 11:14 AM
    Quote from Rolf

    Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you Kalosyni, and please correct me if I am, but it seems that your definition leads to an ascetic view of Epicureanism in which we should only pursue what is strictly necessary.

    Lol, I was thinking the other way around...lol, that you Rolf were coming from an ascetic view (due to your comment about ice-cream). :D

    Quote from Rolf

    Movies are clearly not necessary for happiness or survival - countless people have been happy and healthy without them. And yet watching movies is not an inherently harmful or empty desire. In which case, what are movies other than natural but unnecessary desires?

    I think that I talked about movies in another thread (but have forgotten exactly what I said, and forgotten what thread that was in). But this is a good time to talk about it again...because I would question whether or not harm might come about to an individual if they were to watch a lot of movies about people who desire and chase after great wealth, status, power, control, perfect beauty, perfect safety, or non-stop sensory variations...but it will depend on the person and the circumstances...so no absolute rules.

    I wouldn't call myself ascetic...because I hold to Principal Doctrine 8 as being very important:

    PD08: "No pleasure is bad in itself; but the means of paying for some pleasures bring with them disturbances many times greater than the pleasures themselves."

  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 3, 2025 at 10:19 AM
    Quote from Kalosyni

    And yet I see it differently, as "unnecessary for survival" - and you only label something as natural/unnecessary when it is difficult/impossible to get or depleting/reckless to ones resources.

    Because if something is necessary for survival, then you would endure pain and struggle for the sake of attaining it.

  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 3, 2025 at 10:18 AM
    Quote from Rolf

    I don’t know if I agree that natural/unnecessary desires are “difficult or impossible to attain”, or that they should be viewed negatively at all. From what I understand, this category simply refers to things that are pleasurable but not strictly necessary for happiness.

    "pleasurable but not strictly necessary for happiness"... maybe the word "optional"?.

    And yet I see it differently, as "unnecessary for survival" - and you only label something as natural/unnecessary when it is difficult/impossible to get or depleting/reckless to ones resources.

    Something that causes pain would go into the "empty" category (as in empty of pleasure).

  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 3, 2025 at 10:09 AM

    Ooops, meant to type in that my "mistaken" idea of just two categories was in post 16.

  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 3, 2025 at 10:00 AM

    Okay, regarding my "mistaken" idea in post 22 post 16 above (of only two categories)...now revising back to three, lol:

    • natural/necessary = necessary for life and for well-being
    • natural/unnecessary = difficult or impossible to attain, and beyond ones means or recklessly depleting ones needed resources in order to attain
    • empty = greed for status/wealth/power/control/perfection/non-stop sensory variations
  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 3, 2025 at 9:54 AM
    Quote from Cassius

    But do not there remain very many desires that are not easy and not affordable to attain, and which we would go on pursuing forever without limit if we did not identify their nature as such?

    The things that are not easy and not affordable are also "empty", such that they come about from a desire for status or control (a futile attempt at controling circumstances to make them "perfect" in some way (perfectly beautiful, perfectly safe).

  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 3, 2025 at 9:36 AM
    Quote from Rolf

    What about the desires that are natural but not strictly necessary for survival and well-being?

    I would now say that it is best in our modern times to not have "natural/unnecessary" as a category. And that also means discarding the labels of "luxury" and "extravagant". Our current civilization makes it easy and affordable to attain many "luxuries" and many "extravagances".

    You can eat all the ice cream that you want (but just see what happens, lol...because the stomach can't take unlimited ice-cream and you'll get a tummy-ache). If you can easily find and afford to buy ice-cream and it causes you no pain, then it leads to pleasure. But if you are lactose intolerant or diabetic, then ice-cream would be "empty" of pleasure/well-being for you.

  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 3, 2025 at 8:56 AM
    Quote from Kalosyni

    I like this idea of only: "natural, necessary, and empty".

    Actually it should just be:

    --- natural and necessary = Is it natural? Does it come to us from nature? (We will need to be clear about what exactly are all the desires that nature gives to us). And... Do we need it to survive? Do we need it for our well-being (and to feel blessed/happy).

    -vs-

    --- empty = Is it actually unnecessary for both survival and well-being? Is it an opinion not from nature but generated by greed for massive riches, non-stop variations of sensation, massive power/control/status (all of which are empty opinions).

  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 3, 2025 at 8:53 AM
    Quote from Don

    it takes back or reclaims that "negative connotation" and turns it on its head. That negative connotation of "extravagant" strikes me as potentially Puritanical.

    I personally feel that "extravagant" still ends up keeping the Puritanical connotation, and seems to convey that you "should" only indulge very rarely.

    Quote from Don
    Quote from Rolf

    Would you say “natural”, “necessary”, and “empty” are suitable terms to use?

    Well, if it was good enough for Epicurus...:)

    PS. Okay, let me add that "Yes, I know Epicurus didn't use “natural”, “necessary”, and “empty” because he spoke Greek." But those translations are about as close to literal as one gets for φυσικαὶ, ἀναγκαῖαι, and κεναί.

    I like this idea of only: "natural, necessary, and empty".

    We could think about it this way:

    • natural = Is it natural? Does it come to us from nature? (We will need to be clear about what exactly are all the desires that nature gives to us).
    • necessary = Do we need it to survive? Do we need it for our well-being (and to feel blessed/happy).
    • empty = Is it actually unnecessary for both survival and well-being? Is it an opinion not from nature but generated by greed for massive riches, non-stop variations of sensation, massive power/control/status (all of which are empty opinions).
  • Epicurus' Hierarchy of Needs

    • Kalosyni
    • June 2, 2025 at 7:23 PM
    Quote from Rolf

    Finally, we have the snow sprinkled atop the mountain representing the natural but unnecessary "extravagant" desires. Once we have everything below, we may take joy in these pleasures and allow them to adorn our life, without feeling like we require them.

    I personally would end up choosing a word other than "extravagent" (but not sure exactly what word).

    Also, I wouldn't see this as a hierarchy, but instead that they can all occur at the same time.

  • Welcome DerekC!

    • Kalosyni
    • June 1, 2025 at 1:45 PM

    Welcome to the forum! DerekC

    You've now been added to the private group message which contains the link...looking forward to meeting you! :)

  • Confusion: "The feelings are only two"

    • Kalosyni
    • May 28, 2025 at 8:17 AM
    Quote from Bryan

    Epikouros fully acknowledged that all pleasures are based in active pleasures, but he identified the pleasure of being satisfied (i.e., "established pleasures") as the natural goal of living things.

    Unlike ascetics, we do not deny the body -- and unlike the average man, we do not deny having reached full pleasure when we are satisfied.

    "Eating" is pleasurable, but a life dedicated to "eating" is sad and unhealthy -- and so for the rest of the active pleasures. If we reach the point of satisfaction and wonder what else our body needs, we are missing the point. If we form a lifestyle focused on satisfying our physical pleasures, our intellectual abilities will suffer.

    But bodily satisfaction is the beginning of the intellectual life -- and once this is achieved, then here it is healthy to settle in, and consume and consume (philosophy and science) as a lifestyle.

    Thank you Bryan Well said! :thumbup::thumbup:

    Also, we carry on with our household duties, with joy and laughter [friendship] . --Vatican Saying 41

  • Confusion: "The feelings are only two"

    • Kalosyni
    • May 28, 2025 at 8:12 AM
    Quote from Bryan

    I think this is typically the case for most people. For me, "clearing the mind" is pleasant before sleep, but when I am awake and ready, then "mind-clearing meditation" feels like intellectual asceticism and it is at this point I will notice the extra sensations you mention.

    Thanks Bryan , I also don't like the idea of "clearing the mind" -- as when you are awake there will always be something there. Better to focus on pleasurable sensations such as focusing on the feeling of the breath in the body (as it goes in and out, making it smooth and deep and allowing the speed of the breath to feel good as needed). Or there is the state of mental flow when engaged in concentration (arts, crafts, etc.) when the mind is engaged and focusing fully while also feeling relaxed (just right) as at the same time one is engaged in the craft. (This is just an aside, had to share :)).

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