Posts by Kalosyni

The Japanese concept of "wabi-sabi" might be related to the Epicurean "wealth demanded by nature" (in PD15).

From Wikipedia:

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In traditional Japanese aesthetics, wabi-sabi (侘び寂び) centers on the acceptance of transience and imperfection.^[2] It is often described as the appreciation of beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete".^[3] It is prevalent in many forms of Japanese art.^[4][5]

Wabi-sabi combines two interrelated concepts: wabi (侘) and sabi (寂). According to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, wabi may be translated as "subdued, austere beauty", and sabi as "rustic patina"....

Characteristics of wabi-sabi aesthetics and principles include asymmetry, roughness, simplicity, economy, austerity, modesty, intimacy, and the appreciation of natural objects and the forces of nature.

-->Source article

Cassius your statement "Lower your expectations and you will never be dissatisfied" could be compared to this PD:

PD15. "The wealth demanded by nature is both limited and easily procured; that demanded by idle imaginings stretches on to infinity."

The wording of this doesn't quite work for me. An internal feeling of disappointment happens because a mental expectation was not fulfilled. But if you understand the nature of the world well, you will know which situations come with a higher probability of fufillment and which come with a lower probability, and you won't create unrealistic expectations.

I've just come up with this question: "What kinds of goals do Epicureans set for themselves?"

This could be within general categories or specific things.

If we look to the Principal Doctrines, Vatican Sayings, Letter to Menoeceus, etc.

And in the Letter to Herodotus, it says this:

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"Indeed it is necessary to go back on the main principles, and constantly to fix in one’s memory enough to give one the most essential comprehension of the truth. And in fact the accurate knowledge of details will be fully discovered, if the general principles in the various departments are thoroughly grasped and borne in mind; for even in the case of one fully initiated the most essential feature in all accurate knowledge is the capacity to make a rapid use of observation and mental apprehension, and this can be done if everything is summed up in elementary principles and formulae. For it is not possible for anyone to abbreviate the complete course through the whole system, if he cannot embrace in his own mind by means of short formulae all that might be set out with accuracy in detail."

"Wherefore since the method I have described is valuable to all those who are accustomed to the investigation of nature, I who urge upon others the constant occupation in the investigation of nature, and find my own peace chiefly in a life so occupied, have composed for you another epitome on these lines, summing up the first principles of the whole doctrine."

So from this text, I would deduce that the investigation of nature would be an Epicurean activity and a goal that an Epicurean would set for themselves. And perhaps this goal would be a life-long goal - one that would never end since nature is vast, especially now in our modern understanding. The reason that this goal is important (and I think that this is addressed in De Rerum Natura) is so that one understands that god/gods are not creating all the phenomenon of the world but that they come from naturally occurring processes. And a second reason why this is important is so that one understands the causes of things, thereby leading to better decision making and choices - we can't pray things into existence for ourselves, but instead must take concrete actions.

And...there are other Epicurean goals, which are hinted at in the other texts I mentioned.

Just a head-up, that the sub-forum "Sunday Zoom Meetings" has been moved, and is now located under the Welcome threads in the very top forum. (Fourth Sunday is open to all members and Weekly Sundays is Level 3 ...and Level 2 by moderator approval.)

You can also find a link in the drop-down toolbar under "More".

EdGenX we have sent out a private message containing the Zoom link. Looking forward to meeting you!

Happy Birthday @EricR 

A shout-out to our newer members and anyone who hasn't previously attended a Zoom meeting...

Inviting all forum members to "Fourth Sunday" (this next Sunday)...which will have time for questions about the forum and Epicurean philosophy.

And Cassius will be presenting (based on the article sited above) and guiding the discussion.

RSVP if you are interested in attending!

wbernys  chump  EdGenX  Daniel188  D Campbell (and anyone else I may have missed mentioning).

Quote from Kalosyni

-- the desire for eating tasty highly palatable foods all the time is an "unlimited" desire (difficult to fulfill and comes with painful consequences)

Food addiction - Wikipedia

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A food addiction or eating addiction is any behavioral addiction characterized primarily by the compulsive consumption of palatable and hyperpalatable food items, and potentially also sugar-sweetened beverages (SSBs). Such foods often have high sugar, fat, and salt contents (HFSS), and markedly activate the reward system in humans and other animals. Those with eating addictions often overconsume such foods despite the adverse consequences (such as excess weight gain, diabetes, and heart disease) associated with their overconsumption.

fyi - The Fourth Sunday topic that was posted earlier today has now been changed to: "Pleasure, Atoms, and the Foundations of Epicurean Ethics" - facilitated by Cassius.

The thread for on that article is here:

Thread

Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley

In researching other issues I came across this article by David Sedley: Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics

While I have some issues with the first section, but that's only a brief summary of Epicurean ethics and not essential to the main point of the article. The main part thrust of the article is to examine how Epicurus constructed his argument that in ethics good and bad divides into pleasure and pain in much the same way that in physics everything int he universe divides into bodies…

Cassius

January 22, 2026 at 2:28 PM

Quote from Godfrey

I would begin with natural or unnatural, and eliminate the unnatural desires. Then I would reason out whether the resultant pleasures are likely to outweigh any pains involved. This goes along with my thinking that the natural and unnecessary desires are the sweet spot of day to day choices and avoidances. I examine these in terms of both the desires and the potential pleasures/pains, in no particular order.

I'm not sure if the labels of "natural, necessary, unnecessary, unnatural" are workable for me. I like to use more words to explore things, and here is an example:

Step 1: I notice that I feel desire for something specific: __________(xyz).

Step 2: If I get that ____________ (xyz), will the result will be one of the following?

a) relief from pain (food relieves the pain of hunger, and rest relieves the pain of exertion/work, aspirin relieves the pain of a headache).

b) protection of long-term well-being of the body (warm clothing for winter, warm housing, exercise, healthful foods)".

c) sufficiency/means for acquiring and maintaining basic needs.

d) necessities that provide "good spirits" (such as friends, or other social activities such as playing an instrument or dancing, etc.) ...and enjoyment of mental experiences (learning, teaching, memory).

e) anything else that is an enjoyment of bodily sensations and which are free from painful outcomes.

Step 3: Is the thing I desire something that has "limits" or is it an "unlimited desire" (something that can't be fulfilled)? And does it have painful/stressful consequences?

-- the desires for great wealth, fame, or power are "unlimited" (and are difficult to aquire and come with stressful consequences)

-- the desire for high-fashion clothing or the perfect high-end house is "unlimited" (and these are difficult to aquire without great wealth)

-- the desire for a life filled with perfect endless romance is an "unlimited" desire (and is difficult to aquire and comes with stressful consequences)

-- the desire for eating tasty highly palatable foods all the time is an "unlimited" desire (difficult to fulfill and comes with painful consequences)

Hi Everyone, Coming up this next Sunday is our "Fourth Sunday Epicurean Philosophy Discussion" Via Zoom -- open to forum members. If you haven't previously attended a Sunday Zoom, let us know if you are interested (either here in this thread or by private message to Cassius) so we can get the link to you.

This month's discussion topic: "Pleasure, Atoms, and the Foundations of Epicurean Ethics" - presented by Cassius

This will be based upon sections of the David Sedley article, which you can read here.

Hope to see you there!

Happy Twentieth Everyone!

Here is a fascinating article:

The new science of death: ‘There’s something happening in the brain that makes no sense’

The long read: New research into the dying brain suggests the line between life and death may be less distinct than previously thought

www.theguardian.com

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At the very least, Patient One’s brain activity – and the activity in the dying brain of another patient Borjigin studied, a 77-year-old woman known as Patient Three – seems to close the door on the argument that the brain always and nearly immediately ceases to function in a coherent manner in the moments after clinical death. “The brain, contrary to everybody’s belief, is actually super active during cardiac arrest,” Borjigin said. Death may be far more alive than we ever thought possible.

Happy Birthday to Onenski and DaveT

The following page contains a long explanation by the author Thomas Nail (Professor of Philosophy at the University of Denver) of his ideas regarding Lucretius, including his stance that Lucretius never used the word "atoms".

Returning to Lucretius

Why Return to Lucretius? I think a new Lucretius is coming into view today. Every period in Western history since Lucretius has returned to him like bees…

philosophy-of-movement.com

I've read about 2/3 of this and there is a lot to unpack. Since we are currently studying Lucretius at the weekly Sunday Zoom, then this may be of interest.

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1. First Counter-Thesis: “Lucretius was not an Atomist”

The difference between Lucretius and the earlier Greek atomists is precisely that—the atom. For Leucippus, Democritus, and Epicurus atoms are always in motion, but the atom itself remains fundamentally unchanged, indivisible, and thus internally static—even as it moves. Instead of positing discrete atoms as ontologically primary as both ancient Greek and later modern theories do, one of Lucretius’ greatest novelties was to posit the movement or flow of matter as primary. I think Lucretius did not simply “translate Epicurus;” he transformed him.

For example, although Lucretius could have easily Latinized the Greek word atomos as atomus [smallest particle], as Cicero did, he intentionally did not, nor did he use the Latin word particula or particle to describe matter. The English translations of “atom,” “particle,” and others have all been added to the text based on a certain historical interpretation of it. The idea that Lucretius subscribed to a world of discrete particles called atoms is therefore both a projection of Epicureanism and a retroaction of modern scientific theories of mechanism onto De Rerum Natura. As such, Lucretitus’ writings have been crushed by the weight of his past and future at the same time.

I just found this interesting article on how important exercise is, and that it is as effective as pharmacological threatments or psychological treatments. And it also helps with neuroplasticity:

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"We found that exercise was as effective as pharmacological treatments or psychological therapies as well," says Andrew Clegg, a professor at the University of Lancashire in the U.K.

The findings are not a surprise to psychiatrist Dr. Stephen Mateka, medical director of psychiatry at Inspira Health. "This new Cochrane review reinforces the evidence that exercise is one of the most evidence-based tools for improving mood," says Mateka.

He explains how it mirrors some of the effects of medication. "Exercise can help improve neurotransmitter function, like serotonin as well as dopamine and endorphins. So there is certainly overlap between exercise and how antidepressants offer relief," Mateka says.

You can read the full article here.

Quote from Cassius

Quote from Bryan

On a side note, I love young Epicurus in a spacesuit -- and it really is a fully appropriate image. THANK YOU!!!

It's certainly not the only way - but it is one way - to emphasize that Epicurean philosophy applies to everyone, that each of us gets old and eventually dies, and that we want the pleasure while we are alive of thinking that we are helping those who will come thereafter.

We write wills and do many other things to make sure that happens:

Fr. 3 ...

I am of the few who would say that Epicurus would not engage in spaceflight.

Just for fun I asked Google AI: In 2026, what are the odds that an astronaut will die?

Google response:

There's no precise "odds" for an astronaut death in 2026, but risks are managed with strict safety standards (like NASA's 1 in 270 crew loss target) against known dangers like radiation, while new threats like space debris increase overall risk, though specific mission fatality is unpredictable. While overall spaceflight is safer now, risks remain significant, with factors like space junk and radiation increasing long-term health concerns and potential mission dangers as exploration expands.

Key Factors Influencing Risk

• Space Debris: A growing concern, with studies predicting increased chances of debris falling through busy airspace, posing indirect risks, notes K8 News.
• Space Radiation: A major long-term health hazard, increasing risks for cancer and other issues, especially for deep space missions, according to NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS) and NIH.
• Health Impacts: Zero gravity weakens bones and muscles, potentially leading to kidney stones, notes PIX11.

Safety Measures & Targets

• NASA's Commercial Crew Program: Aims for a 1 in 270 loss-of-crew figure, a standard met by SpaceX and Boeing, says SpaceNews and Business Insider.
• NASA's General Standard: Limits astronaut exposure to a 3% risk of death from radiation, according to NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).

Overall Perspective

• Spaceflight has become safer over time, but remains inherently risky, with past missions having higher statistical risks, reports NBC News.
• While specific odds for 2026 aren't calculable, increased space activity and planned deep space missions mean constant risk assessment, with potential for unforeseen incidents, according to Space.

** 1 in 270 - is per mission

Quote from Eikadistes

One such physical reality in post-Alexandrian Greece was the exchange of foreign forms of piety, and the need to explain the existence of these foreign, yet recognizably spiritual institutions. Surely something natural exists at the source of this seemingly-universal sense of piety.

Epíkouros calls this the divine nature. (Whether or not that corresponds with theoretical super-humans is up to you, but at least this much is true: a natural phenomena is responsible for the evolution of religion). Philódēmos records this as something like visions during dreams.

Happy Birthday Hyakinthos !