Posts by Twentier
Listen to the latest Lucretius Today Podcast! Episode 223 is now available. In this episode, we address Cicero's accusation that Epicureans Are Undergoing the Exertions Of Life for The Equivalent Of A Drop of Honey.
-
-
-
If gods are suppose to be perfect, at least epicurean gods. should you not look to epicureans utility of the gods for there utility towards perfection.
I meant to propose the same point: when I think of "perfect" in the context of Epicurean philosophy, the first thing that comes to mind is the blameless, incorruptible, divine nature, which is also an example of an existence that truly enjoys The Good, The Good that is pure pleasure.
he perfect is not *always* attainable for us.
I recall Epicurus reinforcing this point about describing the exclusive categories of "gods" and "mortals", and emphasizing that the two cannot be the same. We can approximate the perfection of a god-like existence, but we are still mortals with health problems and we can only do our best.
These are good points that you both shared, and I think key to discussing Epicurean "perfection".
-
Do we actually know that Darwin was either an explicit fan of, or quoted, Epicurus?
His grandfather, Erasmus Darwin, was positively Lucretian in his allegiances. Charles seems to have adopted a number of Epicurean propositions from his grandfather, but he did not identify as an explicit Epicurean or Lucretian in the tradition of the Garden.
-
-
-
-
We're talking about a lot of this theoretically, as though Epicureanism isn't already the "spiritual essence or 'religion' of an entire community". It's happening. It's real. Did anyone miss the invitations?
You may not partake in "Epicureanism" as the "spiritual essence or 'religion' of an entire community" but it's happening. As a sub-culture, it is a sociological and anthropological phenomena that is real and can be addressed its modern, historical context in the English-speaking world (and the French, and Spanish, and Scandanavian, and Italian, and Iranian, from immediate contacts of mine).
I prefer my own. I host my own Garden. I compiled my own Testamentum. We do our own thing, and I float between virtual Gardens. Judge on if judging members of your own team is your thing.
Our tradition should have already sprouted, so let's water it. I'm focusing on cultivation.
-
they
I am a formal member of the Society of Friends of Epicurus, so I am happy to elaborate on any points of interest that you, or any other member of this forum have. Furthermore, Hiram the Found of the Society of Friends of Epicurus is also a member, so we are available to be addressed in the first person. Though, I find it cute that you did not feel the need to do so. but I digress.
-
"When you believe in things that you don't understand then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way."
– Stevie Wonder
-
My view is that Epicurus' portrayal of the gods as part of the natural world was an elegant way to answer why the hell the whole of mankind believed and worshipped them. Even today we are not quite sure why people made up religion.
I identify with that perspective.
Hell, for that matter, so did Philodemus:
“...no one has been prolific in finding convincing demonstrations for the existences of the gods; nevertheless all men, with the exception of some madmen worship them, as do we...”
"...οὐδεὶς εἱκνουμένας περὶ τ[οὺ θ]εοὺς ὑπάρχε[ιν τἀς ἀπο]δείξεις εύπ[όρησ]εν· ὁμῶς δε [σέβ]ονται πάντε[ς εἱ μή παρ]άκοποί τινε[ς αὑτούς..." (On Piety, Col. 23, 13-17)
So modern scientists are almost universally atheist
Not quite. To my surprise, it's closer to half-and-half.
For example, nearly 40% of American chemists surveyed "believe in 'God'" according to a 2009 Pew Research poll [https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2009/…e%20this%20view]. In a more recent study, more "than half of scientists in India, Italy, Taiwan and Turkey self-identify as religious" who largely do not see a conflict between religion and science [https://phys.org/news/2015-12-w…scientists.html].
(I'm not making a point, just sharing a discovery)
But then nobody has worked out a generally accepted scientific theory about how and why religion was developed by humans.
A textbook I still have from college called Supernatural as Natural: A Biocultural Approach To Religion (Winkelman and Baker 2010) provides a number of great approaches that are useful to objectively evaluate spiritual experiences and religious behaviors. It suggests that religiosity is rooted in ritualized animal behavior and altered states of consciousness. It then describes the ways that various social roles, norms, and cultural innovations developed from those neurobiological roots.
I think that a piece of ancient Epicurean Theology bears a striking resemblance to modern Anthropology of Religion, which you recognize later in your post:
But Epicurus had to find an answer in alignment with his own views about the nature of the universe (his cosmology), the nature of man (his anthropology)...
Epicurus was in a unique position in a newly-connected world, where ancient Hellenic peoples were being introduced to new forms of spirituality ... and they looked strikingly similar to the tones, attitudes, and topics to existing forms of ancient Greek religion. Likewise, our new world is connected by a network of servers that provide us the tools to compare and contrast everything from the beliefs of aboriginal Australians to Dharma ... I agree, there is a parallel in method.
-
I'd like to add my try at a translation to the pot:
We care for friends not by singing a song of grief but by listening thoughtfully.
I am struck by the contrast between making noise versus receiving it (openly).
-
Inwood & Gerson translate the following: "Let us share our friends’ suffering not with laments but with thoughtful concern." (The Epicurus Reader: Selected Writings and Testimonia)
Peter Saint-Andre provides a similar tone: "We sympathize with our friends not through lamentation but through thoughtful attention." [https://monadnock.net/epicurus/vatican-sayings.html]
-
According to Johns Hopkins [https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellnes…-gut-connection], there are "more than 100 million nerve cells lining your gastrointestinal tract from esophagus to rectum", which seems to be more robust than the brain of a golden hamster. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1567708/). The digestive tract seems to be only slightly dumber than a cat ... and that depends upon the cat ... and boy have I met some cats. The TED Talk reminded me of the proposition of a "second brain", which seems reasonable.
-
The thing about the language models is that they're just a math equations with assigned linguistic assignments. So as they go along parcing out they're sentences the math side is looking for the most likely continuation of the sentence or paragraph. So what ever the model was trained on led it to believe that that was the most likely sequence of words. It was likely trained on a whole collection of philosophical works aswell as "the Pile". I had at one point considered doing the same thing, training an epicurean chat bot and seeing what it would output. But honestly I'm really disappointed with the reliability of the data coming out of the current models. From what I've seen it will be another 3-4 full evolutions of the tech before it's really reliable. Right now it's more like a parlor trick than a real tool.
I found the same thing. I thought it could be an effective research assistant, but it is unreliable, never up-to-date with the latest research, and it presents a huge opportunity to exploit confirmation bias by training it to answer selectively, so I am not impressed by ChatGPT.
-
-
Quote
"May you do well," and "Live well."
"Live long and prosper" -Spock
-
-
This is great! I appreciate your going to the source of the VS. Two other translations for the sake of comparison:
- Anderson: "We should welcome praise from others if it comes unsought, but we should also be engaged in improving ourselves."
- Inwood & Gerson: "Praise from other men must come of its own accord; and we must be concerned with healing ourselves."
-
An article was shared with me that, I think, grounds prolepsin in neurological science: "This model demonstrated how the neocortex forms efficient conceptual representations from experiences, allowing for both the recreation of past events and the generation of new ones."
AI Unlocks Secrets of Human Imagination and Memory Formation - Neuroscience NewsA new study employs generative AI to shed light on how the human brain processes memories for learning, imagination, and planning.neurosciencenews.com