Posts by Martin

Welcome Kasprowy!

Welcome Smithtim47!

The second photo in comment number 11 in the thread on my visit of the institute is the closest close-up I have. I did not take a straight-on close-up because one side of the nose is missing a piece.

My impression from the visit at the Archaeological Institute in Goettingen is that the Roman copies were usually accurate. In case of the restored statue of Epicurus from the remains of two copies, even the folds of the clothing match. There are multiple copies of the same lost originals.

Quote

Does anybody recall where the phrase "hedonic calculus" was first used?

It seems Plato was the first to present the hedonic calculus (in "Protagoras"), apparently as a strawman to beat down hedonism:

(PDF) Pleasure in Plato's Protagoras and what Aristotle and Epicurus think about it (Hebrew) | Itai Greif - Academia.edu

Welcome John!

Welcome Frank!

Night terror fits what I experienced. At that time, I was about 31 years old and was living alone, so I might not even have remembered those cases when I woke up from a night terror itself as described by Dr. Breus.

Around that time, I had a sleep disorder which made me wake up after just a few hours of sleep, and I could fall asleep again only in the morning, such that the alarm clock or the rising external noise level in Tokyo woke me up during night terrors and made me remember them. Alternative events after the alarm were sleep paralysis and out-of-body experiences. Sleep disorder, night terrors, sleep paralysis and out-of-body experiences disappeared within a year. I guess reading a book and mental drills with a card-index instead of just waiting for the second sleep helped me to fall asleep again faster and thereby cured the sleep disorder. When I was 46 years old, I developed a similar sleep disorder again but without night terrors, sleep paralysis or out-of-body experiences. This time, reading or studying is again helpful to fall asleep again but total sleep at nighttime is down. Since retirement, I mitigate the sleep deprivation by additional sleep after breakfast or lunch as needed.

Quote

That sounds like it may have been sleep apnea.

It was not sleep apnea because I did not have lack of oxygen. Usually, I woke up because of the alarm clock or other noise. Deep sleep occurs early in a sleep cycle, not towards the end, such that we do not become aware of how much our subconsciousness may go wild during deep sleep if sleep is not interrupted early in its cycle.

Quote

I take it that kind of "calm" is what's being described by Martin ...

No.

Quote

My understanding is that ataraxia has to be worked on, arises from study and reflection, ...

Agreed.

Quote

..., but once you have rooted out those beliefs that cause anxieties, fear, dread and turbulence in the mind, they don't grow back.

This is the case while we are fully conscious with properly functioning mind. However, while we are asleep and therefore our ability to use logic is turned off, they can temporarily come back. In earlier years, I made the following observations: Sometimes while in deep sleep, I experienced extreme fear which took a minute or more to disappear when suddenly waking up from deep sleep, without that I could even tell what caused the fear because deep sleep appears to be dreamless. By contrast, when suddenly waking up from a bad dream, the fear experienced during the dream went away almost instantly.

The way Epicurus states that the wise man does not become unwise allows for a temporary lack of wisdom: "..., he who has once become wise never more assumes the opposite habit, ...".

Being wise includes logic. When awake but extremely tired, our ability to use logic is turned off. In that state, I sometimes acted unwisely by e.g. overwriting or deleting a file which I wanted to keep or save, turning off the computer the wrong way, closing a book without moving the bookmark to the new position, misplacing objects.

Ataraxia can be affected by circumstances if they are extreme . While I am on a zip-line, ataraxia as a goal is temporarily suspended to gain exceptional pleasure from the experience of nearly flying and the spectacular views. While I am on a plane in heavy turbulence, under immediate threat by a violent robber or in a combat situation, ataraxia is suspended until the danger has passed. The temporary disappearance or reduction of ataraxia under extreme circumstances is compatible with all quotes in Don's comment #6. A wise Epicurean will avoid getting into such circumstances most of the time but may not always be able to avoid them.

Welcome Raphael Raul!

Welcome Nothelpfuldoug!

Welcome Faria Dantes!

Welcome Page259!

Welcome JMGuimas!

Welcome Novem!

Álvarez' translation neatly resolves most contradictions against the big picture of Epicurus' philosophy, which were described in:

Thread

VS41 - Translations of VS 41

A: "We must laugh and philosophize at the same time and do our household duties and employ our other faculties, and never

cease proclaiming the sayings of the true philosophy." (as quoted here, on the Epicurean Friends page)

B: "At one and the same time we must philosophize, laugh, and manage our household and other business, while never ceasing to proclaim the words of true philosophy." (as quoted in a post in the FB EP page from June 2017)

C: "One shall laugh and at the same time philosophize,…

Martin

May 21, 2018 at 7:15 AM

Happy Birthday to Joshua and Kalosyni!

I agree with comments #2 - #4.

2. No! Pleasure is the goal, not moderation. Whereas moderation is often the most pleasurable choice, especially with food and other necessary desires, it is misleading as a goal in itself.

5. Intellectual pleasures may have some advantages over physical pleasures, but there is no justification to call out the highest form of pleasure to be intellectual. It is up to the individual to order pleasures into lower and higher ones or not to make that distinction at all. People who detest lifelong learning, reading, and philosophical exploration can still enjoy an Epicurean lifestyle with just a rudimentary understanding of the philosophy. The vast majority of ancient Epicureans in the Roman empire were probably like that because they lacked the education for intellectual pleasures. Even the Torquatus in Cicero's "On Ends" was not that deep into philosophical exploration as shown by the passage where he was not able to explain something when being pressed hard by Cicero and referred instead to a more intellectual Epicurean than him whom he trusted to know the proper explanation.

E.g., Forrest Gump was not intellectual at all but by the intuitive application of a few simple principles which he was taught by a few trusted people, his life turned out to be fairly close to an Epicurean life.

7. This misses out on the how-to of not fearing the state of being dead.

"the pursuit of enduring and meaningful forms of pleasure":

No! It does not matter how enduring or meaningful (!?) a pleasure is. E.g., the sensation of acceleration or high speed is usually not enduring and has no meaning but can be very pleasurable. Recalling the memory of that physical experience is a great mental pleasure into old age.

"It's a philosophy that emphasizes balance, ..."

This sounds like having no meaning.

"cultivation of a tranquil ... life."

Whereas Epicureans experience tranquility most of the time because of their wise choices, their lives are not necessarily tranquil. Epicureans who pursue lots of excitements within their means do not have tranquil lives. A tranquil life is not their choice.

"Your interpretation and practice of Epicurean principles can be tailored to suit your own values and circumstances in today's society."

This is probably the most excellent characterization of Epicurus' philosophy in that text by ChatGPT.