Posts by kochiekoch

I had a professor in a classical civ class ask how it was Christianity won out in ancient Rome. I've thought about that question for years and I think I have a good answer.

It became the religion of the ruling elite, and they eventually repressed the old ways.

Now adays we talk about "crypto currencies" and the like. The origin of the meaning of the word "crypto", as being something hidden, comes from the time when Pagans had to practice their religion in cemeteries, among the crypts. It gives you an idea of the repression.

They were called "CryptoPagans".

I understand the Romans, were very tolerant, of religions. When they would conquer a territory, they would frequently just absorb the gods of the locals into their Pantheon.

The problem with Christians was that they wouldn't honor the emperor as a God. It's a little like refusing to remove your hat and stand for the Star-Spangled banner! Rude! 😅

Damaging the nose is really common in surviving ancient statues. I went to a museum exhibition featuring ancient Egyptian art and almost every one of the faces on the statues lacked noses.

Cutting them off keeps the statue from breathing!

Quote from Kalosyni

According to Diogenes Laertius Book 10, the Epicurean wise man sayings: "Only the Wise man could discourse rightly on music and poetry, but in practice he would not compose poems."

LOL!!! The poets then and now must have had their problems!

I read Thomas himself went unconscious into that good night. He had pneumonia, a fatty liver due to heavy alcohol use and alleged poor care at the hospital where he was at. All at aged 39.

He collapsed, went into a coma, and never regained consciousness.

This guy makes very interesting historical videos about the late Roman Empire, in this case life for late Pagans. (Who he said, interestingly enough, called themselves "Hellenes").

He's worth a look.

How Was Life For Pagans In The Late Roman Empire?

If the question is whether a wise man will cry out in pain under extreme conditions like being on the rack. Does he have a choice?

You did specify a line drawing. So here it is.

Coming right up courtesy of Copilot. In living color!

I asked an AI bot called Co-Pilot to draw me a symbol of Epicurean philosophy.

Seeing how these things have come out in the past, I thought it would be AWFUL!

But you know, it's not half bad.

Quote from Rolf

Related question: How does a modern-day Epicurean reconcile a) the predominant theory that the universe has a beginning with b) the Epicurean idea that the universe has no beginning and end?

All we know is its current era did. Could it be infinitely expanding and contracting without beginning without end? It's nothing that can be ruled out. Right now, there's not enough evidence, although the cosmological constant doesn't seem so constant as it seems to have different values in different parts of space over time. If it slows down the universe will eventually stop expanding and contract.

The universe's accelerated expansion might be slowing down

The principle of multiple explanations comes into play. Very Epicurean.

>>Why is that so bad? I could generalise it, and it would remain true: "most people would have no clue what Epicurean philosophy is" — and, as far as the general public is concerned, the same would also hold true for Epicurus' face. <<

I couldn't get the darn quote feature to work. This is my third attempt.

Most people aren't interested in philosophy either, but if they are, the ancient Greek philosophies are all represented by the images of their namesakes.

>>You see, it's probably true that in some parts of the world most of the local people there would have no clue what the christianist fish symbol means — but some people would know, some people would recognize it, and it could be the beginning of a bond over shared values.<<

Yeah, but they'd mostly know an image of Jesus.

Now that I think about it, human beings are wired to respond to faces. Maybe the easiest way to identify an ideology.

>>And also, those who use the symbol would know what it means to themselves, it would be a reminder, a little non-supernatural ritual or charm, which is also something valuable.<<

LOL!!! You'd have to promote your symbol! Epicurus! He gets us!

He Gets Us - Wikipedia

Quote from Julia

Roses are, indeed, more easily obtained, but roses are so very common and as a symbol are so heavily pre-charged already, that I wonder if they would serve a symbol's purpose of providing recognition with a reasonable amount of certainty…

LOL!!! "A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet"!

Quote from Julia

I remain skeptical regarding whether Venus Physica is the way to go. I think there is a difference between "metaphorical" and "symbolic", and to me, Venus is more metaphorical than symbolic, which remains true, whether or not she was Memmius' and Lucretius' favourite. Venus as a metaphor can be exchanged for something else, without changing Epicurean philosophy as such. On the other hand, the atoms, the tetrapharmakos, the 20ieth, and so forth, are fixed — they will exist practically forever, and even if we live on Mars someday, moon on earth will still look the same on that day. I think that's beautiful and poetic

That's a very good point. You would want something unmistakably Epicurean as your symbol.

Quote from Julia

So far, my personal favourites are still the waning gibbous (20er moon) with four atom dots arranged in a diamond, and the sideways rhombus with an atom in the middle

I don't think most people would have a clue that the waning moon is Epicurean. Also true of the four atom dots arraigned in a diamond. Frankly the sideways rhombus looks like an eyeball. Which is too bad because they're apparently available in jewelry now.

So, thinking twice about all this has made me favor a conservative position. The image of Epicurus, used for generations in the ancient world, would be best. It is UNMISTAKABLY Epicurean and would be so to even the uninitiated. (Unless somebody identifies it as Epictetus. I've seen that)

Quote from Julia

A flower, just like anything else, should, in my humble opinion, have a good amount of symbolism to go with it; symbolism which is Epicurean in a more narrower sense of the word than Venus or Iphigenia would be on their own.

Yeah, there is a lot of deep symbolism there if you break it down isn't there. Although I don't think it's necessary to go to that level of depth for a simple symbol of Epicureanism. Myrtle flowers are great, but I prefer roses. Also symbolic of Venus and a lot more common and easily obtained.

I don't think poor Iphigenia, brutally murdered by her father, would be a good symbol of Epicureanism in general as her story is sad and ugly and superstitious. She's a cautionary tale.

Venus is a great metaphor for the philosophy, as she symbolizes the beauty and harmony of nature and also of pleasure and desire. The poet Lucretius, secular as he was, featured her prominently in his poem for that and other reasons.

Quote from Martin

Here is an article why the reliance on models/theories in science and the realism-anti-realism dispute in the philosophy of science should not turn us into Sceptics:

"When is a Fact a Fact?": A Conversation with Peter Vickers

I found the link at Philosophy Matters on: Facebook

I understand 5 sigma certainty is the gold standard:

Why do physicists mention “five sigma” in their results? | CERN

Quote from Joshua

I'd like to throw in one more contender; the myrtle blossom, sacred to Aphrodite/Venus.

https://toptropicals.com/pics/garden/m1…234_flower_.jpg

Note that this is the True or Common Myrtle, myrtus communis. Frescoes featuring this plant have been discovered at Santorini and Pompeii.

I like it! Also a quick search shows a rose is also a symbol of Venus and Aphrodite, so you got your pick.

Another philosophical position that uses a flower as a symbol is freethought. They use a pansy as a symbol.

Humanist Heritage: Freethought pansy

The pansy has a historic association with humanism and freethought, its name deriving from the French ‘pensée’ meaning ‘to think’. […]

heritage.humanists.uk

Flowers are delicate and non-intimidating, not to mention beautiful and transient. Kind of like the good life.

Here's another one. Very well done.

Although Pompeii wasn't buried in lava, it was buried in pyroclastic flow and ash.

Last Day of Pompeii - An AI History Short

It was mentioned in the regular Wednesday chat that the new AI assisted scanning techniques found this information.

Here's the article:

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/06/science/herculaneum-scroll-title-author-decoded-intl-scli

Something that impressed me when I looked up Cicero on the Wikipedia page, to get some background on the man so frequently mentioned here on the forum, was how calmly he took his own impending death. He must have really believed he was going to a better place. The last few episodes here explain his thinking.

Cicero - Wikipedia

>>As reported by Seneca the Elder, according to the historian Aufidius Bassus, Cicero's last words are said to have been:

Quote

Ego vero consisto. Accede, veterane, et, si hoc saltim potes recte facere, incide cervicem.
I go no further: approach, veteran soldier, and, if you can at least do so much properly, sever this neck.^[121]

He bowed to his captors, leaning his head out of the litter in a gladiatorial gesture to ease the task. By baring his neck and throat to the soldiers, he was indicating that he would not resist. According to Plutarch, Herennius first slew him, then cut off his head.<<

It's kind of interesting, in the top note article, that the pleasure centers are stimulated by the highly processed foods, dense in fats, sugars, sodium and carbs that our ancestors found scarce. So, we'd eat more of them. (And we do)!

It demonstrates that pleasure is a regulatory mechanism for the health of the person, even if it's gone a little awry in modern times.