From Facebook:
Loved this podcast! It seems that Cicero is intent on denying that the good can be derived from the duality that man is made of, mind and body. He is intent on extolling only virtues and believes they can only come from a mind that is virtuous in and of its self. One would have to be born with a virtuous mind as any experience of pain or pleasure in the body is to be discounted. This is not in accordance with nature and reality.
I wonder if one could flip Cicero’s argument that since we Epicureans believe in bodily pleasure as a good we cannot be serious about the power of mental pleasure…since we say all pleasure has root in/ or is impossible without bodily or sensory pleasure. One could ask what is the virtue of temperance with out the body? Can the mind be temperate without the body sensing pain or pleasure? Can one have courage without a body? How can one have courage if there is no fear of bodily harm to overcome. How about Justice? With no bodily punishment or reward how is justice dealt out, by words of praise or condemnation?Tongues and ears are required for that. So Cicero you do not believe virtue is an end in and of itself as you have to admit that the body and its sense of pain and pleasure is needed in order to determine what is virtuous.
It seems that Cicero’s ideal of virtue for virtues sake can only exist in a mind without a body or a body without sensation…and all observable nature indicates to us that this is an absurd idea.