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munro_1 [2018/06/05 08:31]
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 [?????] Again if no limit has been set to the breaking of bodies, nevertheless the several bodies which go to things must survive from eternity up to the present time, not yet assailed by any danger. But since they are possessed of a frail nature, it is not consistent with this that they could have continued through eternity harassed through ages by countless blows. [?????] Again if no limit has been set to the breaking of bodies, nevertheless the several bodies which go to things must survive from eternity up to the present time, not yet assailed by any danger. But since they are possessed of a frail nature, it is not consistent with this that they could have continued through eternity harassed through ages by countless blows.
  
-[578]  Again too since a limit of growing and sustaining life has been assigned to things each after its kind, and since by the laws of nature it stands decreed what they can each do and what they cannot do, and since nothing is changed, but all things are so constant that the different birds all in succession exhibit in their body the distinctive marks of their kind, they must sure enough have a body of unchangeable matter also. For if the first-beginnings of things could in any way be vanquished and changed, it would then be uncertain too what could and what could not rise into being, in short on what principle each thing has its powers defined, its deep-set boundary mark; nor could the generations reproduce so often each after its kind the nature habits, way of life and motions of the parents.+[578] Again too since a limit of growing and sustaining life has been assigned to things each after its kind, and since by the laws of nature it stands decreed what they can each do and what they cannot do, and since nothing is changed, but all things are so constant that the different birds all in succession exhibit in their body the distinctive marks of their kind, they must sure enough have a body of unchangeable matter also. For if the first-beginnings of things could in any way be vanquished and changed, it would then be uncertain too what could and what could not rise into being, in short on what principle each thing has its powers defined, its deep-set boundary mark; nor could the generations reproduce so often each after its kind the nature habits, way of life and motions of the parents.
  
 [593] Then again since there is ever a bounding point [to bodies, which appears to us to be a least, there ought in the same way to be a bounding point the least conceivable to that first body] which already is beyond what our senses can perceive: that point sure enough is without parts and consists of a least nature and never has existed apart by itself and will not be able in future so to exist, since it is in itself a part of that other; and so a first and single part and then other and other similar parts in succession fill up in close serried mass the nature of the first body; and since these cannot exist by themselves, they must cleave to that from which they cannot in any way be torn. [593] Then again since there is ever a bounding point [to bodies, which appears to us to be a least, there ought in the same way to be a bounding point the least conceivable to that first body] which already is beyond what our senses can perceive: that point sure enough is without parts and consists of a least nature and never has existed apart by itself and will not be able in future so to exist, since it is in itself a part of that other; and so a first and single part and then other and other similar parts in succession fill up in close serried mass the nature of the first body; and since these cannot exist by themselves, they must cleave to that from which they cannot in any way be torn.
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 From them nature allows nothing to be torn, nothing further to be worn away, reserving them as seeds for things. From them nature allows nothing to be torn, nothing further to be worn away, reserving them as seeds for things.
  
-Again unless there shall be a least, the very smallest bodies will consist of infinite parts, inasmuch as the half of the half will always have a half and nothing will set bounds to the division.+[609] Again unless there shall be a least, the very smallest bodies will consist of infinite parts, inasmuch as the half of the half will always have a half and nothing will set bounds to the division.Therefore between the sum of things and the least of things what difference will there be? There will be no distinction at all; for how absolutely infinite soever the whole sum is, yet the things which are smallest will equally consist of infinite parts. Now since on this head true reason protests and denies that the mind can believe it, you must yield and admit that there exist such things as are possessed of no parts and are of a least nature. And since these exist, those first bodies also you must admit to be solid and everlasting.
  
-Therefore between the sum of things ​and the least of things ​what difference will there be? There will be no distinction at all; for how absolutely infinite soever the whole sum isyet the things which are smallest will equally consist of infinite ​parts.+[621] Once more, if nature, creatress ​of things, had been wont to compel all things ​to be broken up into least parts, then too she would be unable to reproduce anything out of those partsbecause those things which are enriched with no parts cannot have the properties which begetting matter ought to have, I mean the various entanglements,​ weights, blows, clashings, motions, by means of which things severally go on.
  
-Now since on this head true reason ​protests ​and denies that the mind can believe ityou must yield and admit that 1$ there exist such things ​as are possessed of no parts and are of a least nature.+[635] For which reasons they who have held fire to be the matter of things and the sum to be formed out of fire alone, are seen to have strayed most widely from true reason.At the head of whom enters Heraclitus to do battle, famous for obscurity more among the frivolous than the earnest Greeks who seek the truth. For fools admire ​and like all things ​the more which they perceive to be concealed under involved language, and determine ​things ​to be true which can prettily tickle the ears and are varnished over with finely sounding phrase.
  
-And since these existthose first bodies also you must admit to be solid and everlasting.+[646] For I want to know how things can be so variousif they are formed out of fire one and unmixed: it would avail nothing for hot fire to be condensed or rarefied, if the same nature which the whole fire has belonged to the parts of fire as well. The heat would be more intense by compression of parts, more faint by their severance and dispersion. More than this you cannot think it in the power of such causes to effect, far less could so great a diversity of things come from mere density ​and rarity of fires.
  
-Once more, if nature, creatress of things, had been wont to compel all things ​to be broken ​up into least parts, then too she would be unable to reproduce anything out of those parts, ​because ​those things ​which are enriched with no parts cannot have the properties which begetting matter ought to haveI mean the various entanglementsweightsblowsclashingsmotionsby means of which things severally go on.+[656] Observe also, if they suppose void to be mixed up in thingsfire may then be condensed and left rare; but because ​they see many things ​rise up in contradiction ​to them and shrink from leaving unmixed void in thingsfearing ​the steepthey lose the true roadand do not perceive on the other hand that if void is taken from thingsall things are condensed andout of all things is formed one single bodywhich cannot briskly radiate anything from it, in the way heat-giving fire emits light and warmth, letting you see that it is not of closely compressed parts.
  
-For which reasons ​they who have held fire to be the matter of things ​and the sum to be formed out of fire aloneare seen to have strayed most widely from true reason.+[666] But if they haply think that in some other way fires maybe quenched in the union and change their body, you are to know that if they shall scruple on no side to do this, all heat sure enough will be utterly brought to nothing, and all things that are produced will be formed out of nothing. For whenever a thing changes and quits its proper limitsat once this change of state is the death of that which was before.
  
-At the head of whom enters Heraclitus ​to do battlefamous ​for obscurity more among the frivolous than the earnest Greeks who seek the truth.+[676] Therefore something or other must needs be left to those fires of theirs undestroyed,​ that you may not have all things absolutely returning to nothing, and the whole store of things born anew and flourishing out of nothing. Since then in fact there are some most unquestionable bodies which always preserve the same nature, on whose going or coming and change of order things change their nature and bodies are transformed,​ you are to know that these first bodies of things are not of fire.For it would matter nothing that some should withdraw and go away and others should be added on and some should have their order changedif one and all they yet retained the nature of heat; for whatever they produced would be altogether fire. But thus methinks it is: there are certain bodies whose clashings, motions, order, position, and shapes produce fires, and which by a change of, order change ​the nature of the things and do not resemble fire nor anything else which has the power of sending bodies to our senses and touching by its contact our sense of touch.
  
-For fools admire and like all things the more which they perceive ​to be concealed under involved language, ​and determine ​things to be true which can prettily tickle ​the ears and are varnished over with finely sounding phrase.+[691] Again to say that all things ​are fire and that no real thing except fire exists in the number of things, as this same man does, appears ​to be sheer dotage.For he himself takes his stand on the side of the senses to fight against the senses ​and shakes their authority, on which rests all our belief, ay from which this fire as he calls it is known to himself; for he believes that the senses can truly perceive fire, he does not believe they can perceive all other things ​which are not a whit less clear.Now this appears to me to be as false as it is foolish; for to what shall we appeal? What surer test can we have than the senses, whereby to note truth and falsehood?
  
-For I want to know how things ​can be so various, if they are formed out of fire one and unmixed: it would avail nothing for hot fire to be condensed or rarefied, if the same nature ​which the whole fire has belonged ​to the parts of fire as well.+[702] Again why should any one rather abolish all things and choose ​to leave the single ​nature ​of heat, than deny that fires exist, while he allows any thing else to be? It seems to be equal madness to affirm either this or that.
  
-The heat would be more intense by compression ​of partsmore faint by their severance ​and dispersion.+[706] For these reasons they who have held that fire is the matter of things and that the sum can be formed out of fireand they who have determined air to be the first-beginning in begetting things, and all who have held that water by itself alone forms things, or that earth produces all things ​and changes into all the different natures of things, appear to have strayed exceedingly wide of the truth;
  
-More than this you cannot think it in the power of such causes to effectfar less could so great a diversity ​of things ​come from mere density ​and rarity of fires.+[713] as well as they who make the first-beginnings ​of things twofold coupling air with fire and earth with waterand they who believe that all things grow out of four things, fire earth and air and water.
  
-Observe alsoif they suppose void to be mixed up in thingsfire may then be condensed ​and left rare; but because they see many things rise up in contradiction to them and shrink ​from leaving unmixed void in things, fearing ​the steep, they lose the true road, and do not perceive on the other hand that if void is taken from things, all things ​are condensed andout of all things is formed one single bodywhich cannot briskly radiate anything from it, in the way heat-giving fire emits light and warmth, letting you see that it is not of closely compressed parts.+[716] Chief of whom is Agrigentine Empedocles: him within the three-cornered shores of its lands that island boreabout which the Ionian sea flows in large crankings, and splashes ​up brine from its green waves.Here the sea racing ​in its straitened froth divides by its waters ​the shores of Italia’s lands from the other’s coasts; here is wasteful Charybdis and here the rumblings of Aetna threaten anew to gather up such fury of flamesas again with force to belch forth the fires bursting from its throat ​and carry up to heaven once more the lightnings of flame.Now though this great country ​is seen to deserve in many ways the wonder of mankind and is held to be well worth visitingrich in all good things, ​guarded by large force of menyet seems it to have held within it nothing more glorious than this mannothing more holy marvelous ​and dear.The verses too of his godlike genius cry with a loud voice and set forth in such wise his glorious discoveries ​that he hardly seems born of a mortal stock.
  
-But if they haply think that in some other way fires maybe quenched in the union and change their bodyyou are to know that if they shall scruple on no side to do thisall heat sure enough will be utterly brought ​to nothing, and all things ​that are produced will be formed out of nothing.+[735] Yet he and those whom we have mentioned above immeasurably inferior and far beneath him, although ​the authors of many excellent ​and godlike discoveries, they have given responses from so to say their hearts’ holy of holies with more sanctity and on much more grounds than the Pythia who speaks out from the tripod and laurel of Phoebushave yet gone to ruin in the first-beginnings of things: it is there they have fallen, and, great themselves, great and heavy has been that fall;
  
-For whenever a thing changes ​and quits its proper limitsat once this change of state is the death of that which was before.+[743] first because they have banished void from things ​and yet assign to them motionsand allow things soft and rare, air sun fire earth, living things and corn, and yet mix not up void in their body;
  
-Therefore something or other must needs be left to those fires of theirs undestroyed, ​that you may not have all things ​absolutely returning ​to nothingand the whole store of things ​born anew and flourishing out of nothing.+[747] next because they suppose that there is no limit to the division ​of bodies and no stop set to their breaking and that there exists no least at all in things; though we see that that is the bounding point of any thing which seems to be least to our sensesso that from this you may infer that because ​the things ​which you do not see have a bounding point, there is a least in them.
  
-Since then in fact there are some most unquestionable bodies which always preserve the same nature, on whose going or coming and change ​of order things ​change their nature and bodies are transformedyou are to know that these first bodies ​of things ​are not of fire.+[754] Moreover since they assign soft first-beginnings ​of things, ​which we see to have birth and to be of a body altogether mortal, the sum of things must in that case revert to nothing and the store of things ​be born anew and flourish out of nothing: how wide now of the truth both these doctrines are you will already comprehend.
  
-For it would matter nothing that some should withdraw ​and go away and others should be added on and some should ​have their order changedif one and all they yet retained the nature of heat; for whatever they produced would be altogether fire.+[760] In the next place these bodies are in many ways mutually hostile ​and poisonous; ​and therefore they will either perish when they have metor will fly asunder just as we see, when a storm has gathered, lightnings ​and rains and winds fly asunder.
  
-But thus methinks it is: there are certain bodies whose clashingsmotions, order, position, and shapes produce fires, ​and which by change ​of, order change ​the nature of the things and do not resemble fire nor anything else which has the power of sending bodies ​to our senses ​and touching by its contact our sense of touch.+[764] Again if all things ​are produced from four things and all again broken up into those thingshow can they be called first-beginnings of things any more than things be called their first-beginningsthe supposition being reversed? For they are begotten time about and interchange color and their whole nature without ceasing.But if haply you suppose that the body of fire and of earth and air and the moisture of water meet in such way that none of them in the union changes its nature, no thing I tell you can be then produced out of them, neither living thing northing with inanimate body, as a tree; in fact each thing amid the medley of this discordant mass will display its own nature and air will be seen to be mixed up with earth and heat to remain in union with moisture.But first-beginnings ought in begetting ​things ​to bring with them a latent ​and unseen nature in order that no thing stand out, to be in the way and prevent whatever is produced from having ​its own proper being.
  
-Again to say that all things are fire and that no real thing except fire exists ​in the number ​of things, ​as this same man doesappears to be sheer dotage.+[782] Moreover they go back to heaven and its fires for a beginning, and first suppose ​that fire changes into air, next that from air water is begotten and earth is produced out of water, ​and that all in reverse order come back from earth, water first, next air, then heat, and that these cease not to interchange,​ to pass from heaven to earth, from earth to the stars of ether. All which first-beginnings must on no account do; since something unchangeable must needs remain over, that things ​may not utterly be brought back to nothing. For whenever a thing changes and quits its proper limitsat once this change of state is the death of that which was before. Wherefore since those things which we have mentioned a little before pass into a state of changethey must be formed out of others which cannot in any case be transformed,​ that you may not have things returning altogether to nothingWhy not rather hold that there are certain bodies possessed of such a nature, that, if they have haply produced fire, the same may, after a few have been taken away and a few added on and the order and motion changed, produce air; and that all other things may in the same way interchange with one another?
  
-For he himself takes his stand on the side of the senses to fight against the senses ​and shakes their authority, on which rests all our beliefay from which this fire as he calls it is known to himself; for he believes that the senses can truly perceive firehe does not believe they can perceive all other things ​which are not a whit less clear.+[803] “But plain matter of fact clearly proves” you say “that all things grow up into the air and are fed out of the earth; ​and unless the season at the propitious period send such abundant showers that the trees reel beneath the soaking storms of rainand unless the sun on its part foster them and supply heat, corn, trees and living things could not grow.” Quite true, and unless solid food and soft water should recruit us, our substance would waste away and life break wholly up out of all the sinews and bones; for we beyond doubt are recruited and fed by certain things, this and that other thing by certain other things. Because many first-beginnings common ​to many things in many ways are mixed up in things, therefore sure enough different things are fed by different things. And it often makes a great difference with what things and in what position the same first beginnings are held in union and what motions they mutually impart and receive; for the same make up heaven sea lands rivers sunthe same make up corn trees and living ​things; but they are mixed up with different things and in different ways as they move.
  
-Now this appears ​to me to be as false as it is foolish; for to what shall we appeal? What surer test can we have than the senses, whereby to note truth and falsehood? Again why should any one rather abolish all things ​and choose to leave the single nature ​of heat, than deny that fires exist, while he allows any thing else to be? It seems to be equal madness to affirm either this or that.+[823] Nay you see throughout even in these verses of ours many elements common ​to many words, though you must needs admit that the lines and words differ ​one from the other both in meaning ​and in sound wherewith they sound. So much can elements effect by a mere change of order; but those elements which are the first-beginnings ​of things can bring with them more combinations out of which different things can severally ​be produced.
  
-For these reasons they who have held that fire is the matter ​of things and that the sum can be formed out of fire, and they who have determined air to be the first-beginning in begetting things, and all who have held that water by itself alone forms thingsor that earth produces all things and changes into all the different natures ​of things, ​appear ​to have strayed exceedingly wide of the truth; as well as they who make the first-beginnings ​of things twofold coupling air with fire and earth with water, and they who believe that all things grow out of four thingsfire earth and air and water.+[829] Let us now also examine ​the homoeomeria ​of Anaxagoras as the Greeks term it, which the poverty ​of our native speech does not allow us to name in our own tongue; though it is easy enough to set forth in words the thing itself. First of all thenwhen he speaks of the homoeomeria ​of things, ​you must know he supposes bones to be formed out of very small and minute bones and flesh of very small and minute fleshes and blood by the coming together ​of many drops of blood, and gold he thinks can be composed of grains of gold and earth be a concretion of small earths, and fires can come from fires and water from waters, and everything else he fancies ​and supposes to be produced on a like principle.
  
-Chief of whom is Agrigentine Empedocles: him within ​the three-cornered shores of its lands that island bore, about which the Ionian sea flows in large crankingsand splashes up brine from its green waves.+[843] And yet at the same time he does not allow that void exists anywhere ​in thingsor that there is a limit to the division of things. Wherefore he appears to me on both these grounds to be as much mistaken as those whom we have already spoken of above.
  
-Here the sea racing in its straitened froth divides by its waters the shores ​of Italia’s lands from the other’s coasts; here is wasteful Charybdis ​and here the rumblings ​of Aetna threaten anew to gather up such fury of flames, as again with force to belch forth the fires bursting from its throat and carry up to heaven once more the lightnings of flame.+[847] Moreover, ​the first-beginnings which he supposes are too frail; if first-beginnings they be which are possessed ​of a nature like to the things themselves ​and are just as liable to suffering and death, and which nothing reins back from destruction. For which of them will hold out, so as to escape death, beneath so strong a pressure within the very jaws of destruction?​ Fire or water or air? Which of these? Blood or bones? Not one methinkswhere everything will be just as essentially mortal as those things which we see with the senses’ perish before our eyes vanquished by some force.But I appeal ​to facts demonstrated above for proof that things cannot fall away to nothing nor on the other hand grow from nothing.
  
-Now though this great country is seen to deserve in many ways the wonder of mankind ​and is held to be well worth visiting, rich in all good things, guarded by large force of menyet seems it to have held within it nothing more glorious than this mannothing more holy marvelous ​and dear.+[859] Again since food gives increase and nourishment ​to the body, you are to know that our veins and blood and bones [and the like are formed of things foreign ​to them in kind]; or if they shall say that all foods are of a mixed body and contain in them small bodies of sinews and bones and veins as well and particles ​of blood, it will follow that all food, solid as well as liquid, must be held to be composed of things foreign to them in kindof bones that is and sinews and matter ​and blood mixed up.
  
-The verses too of his godlike genius cry with a loud voice and set forth in such wise his glorious discoveries that he hardly seems born of a mortal stock.+[867] Again if all the bodies which grow out of the earth, are in the earths, the earth must be composed of things foreign to it in kind which grow out of these earths. Apply again this reasoning to other things, ​and you may use just the same words. If flame and smoke and ash are latent in woods, woods must necessarily be composed of things foreign to them in kind. Again all those bodies, to which the earth gives food, it increases [out of things foreign to them in kind which rise out of the earth: thus too the bodies of flame which issue from the woods, are fed] out of things foreign to them in kind which rise out of these woods.
  
-Yet he and those whom we have mentioned above immeasurably inferior and far beneath himalthough the authors ​of many excellent and godlike discoveriesthey have given responses from so to say their hearts’ holy of holies with more sanctity ​and on much more grounds than the Pythia who speaks out from the tripod and laurel ​of Phoebushave yet gone to ruin in the first-beginnings ​of things: it is there they have fallenandgreat themselvesgreat and heavy has been that fall; first because they have banished void from things and yet assign to them motionsand allow things soft and rare, air sun fire earth, ​living things ​and cornand yet mix not up void in their bodynext because they suppose ​that there is no limit to the division of bodies ​and no stop set to their breaking ​and that there exists no least at all in things; though we see that that is the bounding point of any thing which seems to be least to our sensesso that from this you may infer that because the things ​which you do not see have a bounding point, there is a least in them.+[874] Here some slight opening is left for evasionwhich Anaxagoras avails himself ​of, choosing ​to suppose that all things though latent are mixed up in things, and that is alone visible ​of which there are the largest number of bodies in the mixture and these more ready to hand and stationed in the first rank. This however is far banished ​from true reason. For then it were natural that corn too should often, when crushed by the formidable force of the stoneshow some mark of blood or some other of the things ​which have their nourishment in our body. For like reasons it were fitting that from grasses toowhen we rub them between two stonesblood should ooze out; that waters should yield sweet dropsin flavor like to the udder of milk in sheep; yes and that oftenwhen clods of earth have been crumbledkinds of grasses ​and corn and leaves should be found to lurk distributed among the earth in minute quantitiesand lastly ​that ash and smoke and minute fires should be found latent ​in woods, when they were broken off. Now since plain matter of fact teaches ​that none of these results follows, you are to know that things ​are not so mixed up in things; but rather seeds common to many things must in many ways be mixed up and latent in things.
  
-Moreover since they assign soft first-beginnings ​of thingswhich we see to have birth and to be of a body altogether mortal, the sum of things must in that case revert to nothing and the store of things ​be born anew and flourish out of nothing: how wide now of the truth both these doctrines are you will already comprehend.+[894] “But it often comes to pass on high mountains” you say “that contiguous tops of tall trees rub togetherthe strong south winds constraining them so to do, until the flower of flame has broken out and they have burst into a blaze.” Quite true, and yet fire is not innate in woods; but there are many seeds of heatand when they by rubbing have streamed together, they produce conflagrations in the forests. But if the flame was stored up ready made in the forests, the fire could not be concealed for any length ​of time, but would destroy forests, burn up trees indiscriminately.
  
-In the next place these bodies ​are in many ways mutually ​hostile ​and poisonous; ​and therefore they will either perish when they have met, or will fly asunder just as we see, when a storm has gathered, lightnings ​and rains and winds fly asunder.+[906] Do you now see, as we said a little before, that it often makes a very great difference with what things and in what position ​the same first beginnings ​are held in union and what motions they mutually ​impart ​and receive, ​and that the same may, when a little changed in arrangement produce say fires and a fir? Just as the words too consist of elements only a little changed in arrangement,​ though we denote firs and fires with two quite distinct names.
  
-Again if all things ​are produced ​from four things and all again broken up into those thingshow can they be called ​first-beginnings of things ​any more than things ​be called their first-beginnings,​ the supposition being reversed? For they are begotten time about and interchange color and their whole nature without ceasing.+[914] Once again, ​if you suppose that whatever you perceive among visible ​things ​cannot be produced ​without imagining bodies of matter possessed of a like naturein this way you will find the first-beginnings of things ​are destroyed: it will come to this that they will be shaken by loud fits of convulsive laughter ​and will bedew with salt tears face and cheeks.
  
-But if haply you suppose that the body of fire and of earth and air and the moisture ​of water meet in such a way that none of them in the union changes its natureno thing tell you can be then produced out of themneither living thing northing ​with inanimate body, as a tree; in fact each thing amid the medley ​of this discordant mass will display its own nature ​and air will be seen to be mixed up with earth and heat to remain ​in union with moisture.+[920] Now mark and learn what remains to be known and hear it more distinctly.Nor does my mind fail to perceive how dark the things are; but the great hope of praise has smitten my heart with sharp thyrsus, ​and at the same time has struck into my breast sweet love of the muses, with which now inspired I traverse in blooming thought the pathless haunts of the Pierides never yet trodden by sole of man. I love to approach the untasted springs ​and to quaff, I love to cull fresh flowers ​and gather for my head a distinguished crown from spots whence ​the muses have yet veiled the brows of none; first because I teach of great things and essay to release ​the mind from the fast bonds of religious scruplesand next because on a dark subject ​pen such lucid verses overlaying all with the muses’ charm. For that too would seem to be not without good grounds: just as physicians when they purpose to give nauseous wormwood to childrenfirst smear the rim round the bowl with the sweet yellow juice of honeythat the unthinking age of children may be fooled as far as the lips, and meanwhile drink up the bitter draught ​of wormwood ​and though beguiled yet not be betrayed, but rather by such means recover health and strength; so I now, since this doctrine seems generally somewhat bitter ​to those by whom it has not been handled, ​and the multitude shrinks back from it in dismay, have resolved ​to set forth to you our doctrine ​in sweet-toned Pierian verse and overlay it as it were with the pleasant honey of the muses, if haply by such means I might engage your mind on my verses, till you clearly perceive the whole nature of things, its shape and frame.
  
-But first-beginnings ought in begetting things to bring with them a latent and unseen nature in order that no thing stand out, to be in the way and prevent whatever ​is produced from having its own proper being.+[950] But since I have taught ​that most solid bodies of matter fly about for ever unvanquished through all timemark now, let us unfold whether there is or is not any limit to their sum; likewise let us clearly see whether that which has been found to be void, or room and space, in which things severally go on, is all of it altogether finite or stretches without limits and to an unfathomable depth.
  
-Moreover they go back to heaven and its fires fora beginningand first suppose ​that fire changes into airnext that from air water is begotten and earth is produced out of waterand that all in reverse order come back from earthwater first, next air, then heat, and that these cease not to interchangeto pass from heaven to earthfrom earth to the stars of ether.+[957] Well thenthe existing universe is bounded in none of its dimensions; for then it must have had an outside. Again it is seen that there can be an outside of nothingunless there be something beyond to bound it, so that that is seenfarther than which the nature of this our sense does not follow the thing. Now since we must admit that there is nothing outside the sumit has no outside, and therefore is without end and limit.And it matters ​not in which of its regions you take your stand; so invariablywhatever position any one has taken uphe leaves ​the universe just as infinite as before in all directions.
  
-All which first-beginnings must on no account ​do; since something ​unchangeable ​must needs remain over, that things may not utterly ​be brought back to nothing.+[966] Again if for the moment all existing space be held to be bounded, supposing a man runs forward to its outside borders, and stands ​on the utmost verge and then throws a winged javelin, ​do you choose that when hurled with vigorous force it shall advance to the point to which it has been sent and fly to a distance, or do you decide that something ​can get in its way and stop it? For you must admit and adopt one of the two suppositions;​ either of which shuts you out from all escape and compels you to grant that the universe stretches without end. For whether there is something to get in its way and prevent its coming whither it was sent and placing itself in the point intended, or whether it is carried forward, in either case it has not started from the end. In this way I will go on and, wherever you have placed the outside borders, I will ask what then becomes of the javelin. The result will be that an end can nowhere be fixed, and that the room given for flight will still prolong the power of flight.
  
-For whenever a thing changes and quits its proper limits, at once this change of state is the death of that which was before. +[983] Lastly one thing is seen by the eyes to end another thing; air bounds off hills, and mountains air, earth limits sea and sea again all lands; the universe however there is nothing outside to end. Again if all the space of the whole sum were enclosed within fixed borders and were bounded, in that case the store of matter by its solid weights would have streamed together from all sides to the lowest point nor could anything have gone on under the canopy of heaven, no nor would there have been a heaven nor sunlight at all, inasmuch as all matter, settling down through infinite time past, would lie together in a heap.
- +
-Wherefore since those things which we have mentioned a little before pass into a state of change, they must be formed out of others which cannot in any case be transformed,​ that you may not have things returning altogether to nothing. +
- +
-Why not rather hold that there are certain bodies possessed of such a nature, that, if they have haply produced fire, the same may, after a few have been taken away and a few added on and the order and motion changed, produce air; and that all other things may in the same way interchange with one another? “But plain matter of fact clearly proves” you say “that all things grow up into the air and are fed out of the earth; and unless the season at the propitious period send such abundant showers that the trees reel beneath the soaking storms of rain, and unless the sun on its part foster them and supply heat, corn, trees and living things could not grow.” +
- +
-Quite true, and unless solid food and soft water should recruit us, our substance would waste away and life break wholly up out of all the sinews and bones; for we beyond doubt are recruited and fed by certain things, this and that other thing by certain other things. +
- +
-Because many first-beginnings common to many things in many ways are mixed up in things, therefore sure enough different things are fed by different things. +
- +
-And it often makes a great difference with what things and in what position the same first beginnings are held in union and what motions they mutually impart and receive; for the same make up heaven sea lands rivers sun, the same make up corn trees and living things; but they are mixed up with different things and in different ways as they move. +
- +
-Nay you see throughout even in these verses of ours many elements common to many words, though you must needs admit that the lines and words differ one from the other both in meaning and in sound wherewith they sound. +
- +
-So much can elements effect by a mere change of order; but those elements which are the first-beginnings of things can bring with them more combinations out of which different things can severally be produced. +
- +
-Let us now also examine the homoeomeria of Anaxagoras as the Greeks term it, which the poverty of our native speech does not allow us to name in our own tongue; though it is easy enough to set forth in words the thing itself. +
- +
-First of all then, when he speaks of the homoeomeria of things, you must know he supposes bones to be formed out of very small and minute bones and flesh of very small and minute fleshes and blood by the coming together of many drops of blood, and gold he thinks can be composed of grains of gold and earth be a concretion of small earths, and fires can come from fires and water from waters, and everything else he fancies and supposes to be produced on a like principle. +
- +
-And yet at the same time he does not allow that void exists anywhere in things, or that there is a limit to the division of things. +
- +
-Wherefore he appears to me on both these grounds to be as much mistaken as those whom we have already spoken of above. +
- +
-Moreover, the first-beginnings which he supposes are too frail; if first-beginnings they be which are possessed of a nature like to the things themselves and are just as liable to suffering and death, and which nothing reins back from destruction. +
- +
-For which of them will hold out, so as to escape death, beneath so strong a pressure within the very jaws of destruction?​ Fire or water or air? Which of these? Blood or bones? +
- +
-Not one methinks, where everything will be just as essentially mortal as those things which we see with the senses’ perish before our eyes vanquished by some force. +
- +
-But I appeal to facts demonstrated above for proof that things cannot fall away to nothing nor on the other hand grow from nothing. +
- +
-Again since food gives increase and nourishment to the body, you are to know that our veins and blood and bones [and the like are formed of things foreign to them in kind]; or if they shall say that all foods are of a mixed body and contain in them small bodies of sinews and bones and veins as well and particles of blood, it will follow that all food, solid as well as liquid, must be held to be composed of things foreign to them in kind, of bones that is and sinews and matter and blood mixed up. +
- +
-Again if all the bodies which grow out of the earth, are in the earths, the earth must be composed of things foreign to it in kind which grow out of these earths. +
- +
-Apply again this reasoning to other things, and you may use just the same words. +
- +
-If flame and smoke and ash are latent in woods, woods must necessarily be composed of things foreign to them in kind. +
- +
-Again all those bodies, to which the earth gives food, it increases [out of things foreign to them in kind which rise out of the earth: thus too the bodies of flame which issue from the woods, are fed] out of things foreign to them in kind which rise out of these woods. +
- +
-Here some slight opening is left for evasion, which Anaxagoras avails himself of, choosing to suppose that all things though latent are mixed up in things, and that is alone visible of which there are the largest number of bodies in the mixture and these more ready to hand and stationed in the first rank. +
- +
-This however is far banished from true reason. +
- +
-For then it were natural that corn too should often, when crushed by the formidable force of the stone, show some mark of blood or some other of the things which have their nourishment in our body. +
- +
-For like reasons it were fitting that from grasses too, when we rub them between two stones, blood should ooze out; that waters should yield sweet drops, in flavor like to the udder of milk in sheep; yes and that often, when clods of earth have been crumbled, kinds of grasses and corn and leaves should be found to lurk distributed among the earth in minute quantities; and lastly that ash and smoke and minute fires should be found latent in woods, when they were broken off. +
- +
-Now since plain matter of fact teaches that none of these results follows, you are to know that things are not so mixed up in things; but rather seeds common to many things must in many ways be mixed up and latent in things. +
- +
-“But it often comes to pass on high mountains” you say “that contiguous tops of tall trees rub together, the strong south winds constraining them so to do, until the flower of flame has broken out and they have burst into a blaze.” +
- +
-Quite true, and yet fire is not innate in woods; but there are many seeds of heat, and when they by rubbing have streamed together, they produce conflagrations in the forests. +
- +
-But if the flame was stored up ready made in the forests, the fire could not be concealed for any length of time, but would destroy forests, burn up trees indiscriminately. +
- +
-Do you now see, as we said a little before, that it often makes a very great difference with what things and in what position the same first beginnings are held in union and what motions they mutually impart and receive, and that the same may, when a little changed in arrangement produce say fires and a fir? +
- +
-Just as the words too consist of elements only a little changed in arrangement,​ though we denote firs and fires with two quite distinct names. +
- +
-Once again, if you suppose that whatever you perceive among visible things cannot be produced without imagining bodies of matter possessed of a like nature, in this way you will find the first-beginnings of things are destroyed: it will come to this that they will be shaken by loud fits of convulsive laughter and will bedew with salt tears face and cheeks. +
- +
-Now mark and learn what remains to be known and hear it more distinctly. +
- +
-Nor does my mind fail to perceive how dark the things are; but the great hope of praise has smitten my heart with sharp thyrsus, and at the same time has struck into my breast sweet love of the muses, with which now inspired I traverse in blooming thought the pathless haunts of the Pierides never yet trodden by sole of man. +
- +
-I love to approach the untasted springs and to quaff, I love to cull fresh flowers and gather for my head a distinguished crown from spots whence the muses have yet veiled the brows of none; first because I teach of great things and essay to release the mind from the fast bonds of religious scruples, and next because on a dark subject I pen such lucid verses overlaying all with the muses’ charm. +
- +
-For that too would seem to be not without good grounds: just as physicians when they purpose to give nauseous wormwood to children, first smear the rim round the bowl with the sweet yellow juice of honey, that the unthinking age of children may be fooled as far as the lips, and meanwhile drink up the bitter draught of wormwood and though beguiled yet not be betrayed, but rather by such means recover health and strength; so I now, since this doctrine seems generally somewhat bitter to those by whom it has not been handled, and the multitude shrinks back from it in dismay, have resolved to set forth to you our doctrine in sweet-toned Pierian verse and overlay it as it were with the pleasant honey of the muses, if haply by such means I might engage your mind on my verses, till you clearly perceive the whole nature of things, its shape and frame. +
- +
-But since I have taught that most solid bodies of matter fly about for ever unvanquished through all time, mark now, let us unfold whether there is or is not any limit to their sum; likewise let us clearly see whether that which has been found to be void, or room and space, in which things severally go on, is all of it altogether finite or stretches without limits and to an unfathomable depth. +
- +
-Well then, the existing universe is bounded in none of its dimensions; for then it must have had an outside. +
- +
-Again it is seen that there can be an outside of nothing, unless there be something beyond to bound it, so that that is seen, farther than which the nature of this our sense does not follow the thing. +
- +
-Now since we must admit that there is nothing outside the sum, it has no outside, and therefore is without end and limit. +
- +
-And it matters not in which of its regions you take your stand; so invariably, whatever position any one has taken up, he leaves the universe just as infinite as before in all directions. +
- +
-Again if for the moment all existing space be held to be bounded, supposing a man runs forward to its outside borders, and stands on the utmost verge and then throws a winged javelin, do you choose that when hurled with vigorous force it shall advance to the point to which it has been sent and fly to a distance, or do you decide that something can get in its way and stop it? +
- +
-For you must admit and adopt one of the two suppositions;​ either of which shuts you out from all escape and compels you to grant that the universe stretches without end. +
- +
-For whether there is something to get in its way and prevent its coming whither it was sent and placing itself in the point intended, or whether it is carried forward, in either case it has not started from the end. +
- +
-In this way I will go on and, wherever you have placed the outside borders, I will ask what then becomes of the javelin. +
- +
-The result will be that an end can nowhere be fixed, and that the room given for flight will still prolong the power of flight. +
- +
-Lastly one thing is seen by the eyes to end another thing; air bounds off hills, and mountains air, earth limits sea and sea again all lands; the universe however there is nothing outside to end. +
- +
-Again if all the space of the whole sum were enclosed within fixed borders and were bounded, in that case the store of matter by its solid weights would have streamed together from all sides to the lowest point nor could anything have gone on under the canopy of heaven, no nor would there have been a heaven nor sunlight at all, inasmuch as all matter, settling down through infinite time past, would lie together in a heap.+
  
 But as it is, sure enough no rest is given to the bodies of the first-beginnings,​ because there is no lowest point at all, to which they might stream together as it were, and where they might take up their positions. But as it is, sure enough no rest is given to the bodies of the first-beginnings,​ because there is no lowest point at all, to which they might stream together as it were, and where they might take up their positions.
Line 283: Line 189:
 Therefore the nature of room and the space of the unfathomable void are such as bright thunderbolts cannot race through in their course though gliding on through endless tract of time, no nor lessen one jot the journey that remains to go by all their travel: so huge a room is spread out on all sides for things without any bounds in all directions round. Therefore the nature of room and the space of the unfathomable void are such as bright thunderbolts cannot race through in their course though gliding on through endless tract of time, no nor lessen one jot the journey that remains to go by all their travel: so huge a room is spread out on all sides for things without any bounds in all directions round.
  
-Again nature keeps the sum of things from setting any limit to itself, since she compels body to be ended by void and void in turn by body, so that either she thus renders the universe infinite by this alternation of the two, or else the one of the two, incase the other does not bound it, with its single nature stretches nevertheless immeasurably.+[1006] ​Again nature keeps the sum of things from setting any limit to itself, since she compels body to be ended by void and void in turn by body, so that either she thus renders the universe infinite by this alternation of the two, or else the one of the two, incase the other does not bound it, with its single nature stretches nevertheless immeasurably.
  
 [But void I have already proved to be infinite; therefor matter must be infinite: for if void were infinite, and matter finite] neither sea nor earth nor the glittering quarters of heaven nor mortal kind nor the holy bodies of the gods could hold their ground one brief passing hour; since forced asunder from its union the store of matter would be dissolved and borne along the mighty void, or rather I should say would never have combined to produce any thing, since scattered abroad it could never have been brought together. [But void I have already proved to be infinite; therefor matter must be infinite: for if void were infinite, and matter finite] neither sea nor earth nor the glittering quarters of heaven nor mortal kind nor the holy bodies of the gods could hold their ground one brief passing hour; since forced asunder from its union the store of matter would be dissolved and borne along the mighty void, or rather I should say would never have combined to produce any thing, since scattered abroad it could never have been brought together.
  
-For verily not by design did the first beginnings of things station themselves each in its right place guided by keen intelligence,​ nor did they bargain sooth to say what motions each should assume, but because many in number and shifting about in many ways throughout the universe they are driven and tormented by blows during infinite time past, after trying motions and unions of every kind at length they fall into arrangements such as those out of which this our sum of things has been formed, and by which too, it is preserved through many great years when once it has been thrown into the appropriate motions, and causes the streams to replenish the greedy sea with copious river waters and the earth, fostered by the heat of the sun, to renew its produce, and the race of living things to come up and flourish, and the gliding fires of ether to live: all which these several things could in nowise bring to pass, unless a store of matter could rise up from infinite space, out of which store they are wont to make up in due season whatever has been lost+[1020] ​For verily not by design did the first beginnings of things station themselves each in its right place guided by keen intelligence,​ nor did they bargain sooth to say what motions each should assume, but because many in number and shifting about in many ways throughout the universe they are driven and tormented by blows during infinite time past, after trying motions and unions of every kind at length they fall into arrangements such as those out of which this our sum of things has been formed, and by which too, it is preserved through many great years when once it has been thrown into the appropriate motions, and causes the streams to replenish the greedy sea with copious river waters and the earth, fostered by the heat of the sun, to renew its produce, and the race of living things to come up and flourish, and the gliding fires of ether to live: all which these several things could in nowise bring to pass, unless a store of matter could rise up from infinite space, out of which store they are wont to make up in due season whatever has been lost.
- +
-For as the nature of living things when robbed of food loses its substance and wastes away, thus all things must be broken up, as soon as matter has ceased to be supplied, diverted in any way from its proper course. +
- +
-Nor can blows from without hold together all the sum which has been brought into union. +
- +
-They can it is true frequently strike upon and stay a part, until others come and the sum can be completed. +
- +
-At times however they are compelled to rebound and in so doing grant to the first beginnings of things room and time for flight, to enable them to get clear away from the mass in union. +
- +
-Wherefore again and again I repeat many bodies must rise up; nay for the blows themselves not to fail, there is need of an infinite supply of matter on all sides. +
- +
-And herein, Memmius, be far from believing this, that all things as they say press to the center of the sum, and that for this reason the nature of the world stands fast without any strokes from the outside and the uppermost and lowest parts cannot part asunder in any direction, because all things have been always pressing towards the center (if you can believe that anything can rest upon itself); or that the heavy bodies which are beneath the earth all press upwards and are at rest on the earth, turned topsy-turvy,​ just like the images of things we see before us in the waters. +
- +
-In the same way they maintain that living things walk head downwards and cannot tumble out of earth into the parts of heaven lying below them any more than our bodies can spontaneously fly into the quarters of heaven; that when those see the sun, we behold the stars of night; and that they share with us time about the seasons of heaven and pass nights equal in length to our days. +
- +
-But groundless [error has devised such dreams] for fools, because they have embraced [false principles of reason.] +
- +
-For there can be no center [where the universe is] infinite; no nor, even if there were a center, could anything take up a position there [any more on that account] than for some quite different reason [be driven away.] +
- +
-For all room and space, which we term void, must through center, through no-center alike give place to heavy bodies, in whatever directions their motions tend.+
  
-Nor is there any spot of such a sort that when bodies have reached it, they can lose their force of gravity ​and stand upon void; and that again which is void must not serve to support anythingbut must, as its nature cravescontinually give place.+[1037] For as the nature ​of living things ​when robbed ​of food loses its substance ​and wastes awaythus all things ​must be broken up, as soon as matter has ceased to be supplieddiverted in any way from its proper course.
  
-Things cannot therefore in such way be held in union, ​o’er-mastered by love of a center.+[1041] Nor can blows from without hold together all the sum which has been brought into union.They can it is true frequently strike upon and stay part, until others come and the sum can be completed.At times however they are compelled to rebound and in so doing grant to the first beginnings of things room and time for flight, to enable them to get clear away from the mass in union. Wherefore again and again I repeat many bodies must rise up; nay for the blows themselves not to failthere is need of an infinite supply of matter on all sides.
  
-Again since they do not suppose ​that all bodies ​press to the center, but only those of earth, and those, ​of water[both such as descend to the earth in rain] and those which are held in by the earth’s bodyso to say, the fluid of the sea and great waters ​from the mountains; while on the other hand they teach that the subtle element ​of air and hot fires at the same time are carried away from the center and that for this reason the whole ether round bickers with signs and the sun’s flame is fed throughout ​the blue of heaven, because heat flying from the center all gathers together there, ​and that the topmost boughs ​of trees could not put forth leaves at all, unless from time to time [nature supplied] food from the earth to each [throughout both stem and boughs, their reasons are not only false, but they contradict each other.+[1051] And herein, Memmius, be far from believing this, that all things as they say press to the center of the sum, and that for this reason the nature ​of the world stands fast without any strokes from the outside and the uppermost and lowest parts cannot part asunder in any directionbecause all things have been always pressing towards the center (if you can believe that anything can rest upon itself); or that the heavy bodies which are beneath ​the earth all press upwards ​and are at rest on the earth, ​turned topsy-turvyjust like the images ​of things we see before us in the waters. In the same way they maintain ​that living things walk head downwards and cannot tumble out of earth into the parts of heaven lying below them any more than our bodies can spontaneously fly into the quarters of heaven; ​that when those see the sun, we behold ​the stars of night; ​and that they share with us time about the seasons ​of heaven and pass nights equal in length ​to our days.
  
-Space I have already proved to be infinite; ​and space being infinite matter as I have said must also be infinitelest after the winged fashion of flames the walls of the world should suddenly break up and fly abroad along the mighty ​void, and all other things follow for like reasons and the innermost quarters of heaven tumble ​in from above and the earth in an instant withdraw from beneath our feet and amid the commingled ruins of things in it and of heavenruins unloosing the first bodiesshould wholly pass away along the unfathomable voidso that in a moment of time not a wrack should ​be left behindnothing save untenanted space and viewless first-beginnings.+[1067] But groundless [error has devised such dreams] for fools, because they have embraced [false principles of reason.] For there can be no center [where the universe is] infinite; ​no nor, even if there were a center, could anything take up a position there [any more on that account] than for some quite different reason [be driven away.For all room and space, which we term void, must through center, through no-center alike give place to heavy bodies, ​in whatever directions their motions tend. Nor is there any spot of such a sort that when bodies have reached ​it, they can lose their force of gravity and stand upon void; and that again which is void must not serve to support anythingbut mustas its nature cravescontinually give place. Things cannot therefore ​in such way be held in uniono’er-mastered by love of a center.
  
-For on whatever side you shall first determine first bodies to be wanting, this side will be the gate of death for things, through this the whole crowd of matter will fling itself abroad.+[1082] Again since they do not suppose that all bodies press to the center, but only those of earth, and those, of water, [both such as descend to the earth in rain] and those which are held in by the earth’s body, so to say, the fluid of the sea and great waters from the mountains; while on the other hand they teach that the subtle element of air and hot fires at the same time are carried away from the center and that for this reason the whole ether round bickers with signs and the sun’s flame is fed throughout the blue of heaven, because heat flying from the center all gathers together there, and that the topmost boughs of trees could not put forth leaves at all, unless from time to time [nature supplied] food from the earth to each [throughout both stem and boughs, their reasons are not only false, but they contradict each other. Space I have already proved to be infinite; and space being infinite matter as I have said must also be infinite] lest after the winged fashion of flames the walls of the world should suddenly break up and fly abroad along the mighty void, and all other things follow for like reasons and the innermost quarters of heaven tumble in from above and the earth in an instant withdraw from beneath our feet and amid the commingled ruins of things in it and of heaven, ruins unloosing the first bodies, should wholly pass away along the unfathomable void, so that in a moment of time not a wrack should be left behind, nothing save untenanted space and viewless first-beginnings.For on whatever side you shall first determine first bodies to be wanting, this side will be the gate of death for things, through this the whole crowd of matter will fling itself abroad.
  
-If you will thoroughly con these things, then carried to the end with slight trouble [you will be able by yourself to understand all the rest.]+[1107] ​If you will thoroughly con these things, then carried to the end with slight trouble [you will be able by yourself to understand all the rest.]
  
 For one thing after another will grow clear and dark night will not rob you of the road and keep you from surveying the utmost ends of nature: in such wise things will light the torch for other things. For one thing after another will grow clear and dark night will not rob you of the road and keep you from surveying the utmost ends of nature: in such wise things will light the torch for other things.
  
  
munro_1.txt · Last modified: 2018/06/27 08:11 by cassius