Search Results

Hello to all the epicurean friends. "Ὅταν οὖν λέγωμεν ἡδονὴν τέλος ὑπάρχει, οὐ τὰς τῶν ἀσώτων ἡδονὰς καὶ τὰς ἐν ἀπολαύσει κειμένας λέγομεν" <τὰς ἐν ἀπολαύσει κειμένας>. Υes, indeed, in this phrase there no the greek word "αίσθησις" or "αισθησιακός" in english as "sensual". If we translate "τας εν απολαύσει κειμένας" as "sensual enjoyments" or "sensual pleasures", it seems to be that the philosopher who glorified the senses, he rejects the senses. Note: the verb "κείμαι" has a similar meaning wit…

Yes, I do not agree with those translations and meanings in this text of LTM. Both do not judge according to the whole of our philosophy.

Don first of all : hello and joy! With franknenss of speech and sorry, but you give me the impression that you use the platonean methodology of " dialectic" searching out in the greek words endless definitions using the lexicons in which there are the greek words according to the texts by Homer, Aristotle, Plato, Sophocles, Thucydides et.al. And one word used by them in a text has another meaning for someone else in another text. That is the greek language that is rich, but the danger is hidden…

In the basis of feelings what is the situation that a profligate is? Is he dead, is he sleepy? No he is in fears and he feels pains, and pains provokes to himself and others next to him. Since a profligate is in a situation of oblivion [λήθη], because he does not know the truth [α+λήθεια] about the phenomena in the sky, the Universe, and the death and the god etc etc. In the basis of empathy who is a profligate, usually? He is a kind of a narcissist, he feels enjoyment in the sake of himself, he…

<τας εν κειμένας απολαύσεις> = <those that lie in enjoyments> [ those enjoyments that are out of limits] and this is what Epicurus means. 1) "Κείμαι" is one greek word and means "I am, be located, I find myself, I lie around". 2 ) "Kοιμάμαι" is another greek word that means "I'm sleeping". Please, observe that there is a difference between them of one letter the first has an "ε" and in the second has an "o". both have the same root describing a situation in which I am, I find myself, I be locate…

We can connect the whole issue on "the enjoyments of the profligates" with the VS 11 (see photo) the word "ναρκά" that used by Epicurus means "lethargy". However, a profligate is not in a situation that he is not doing anything, he is just prone to the pleasures with motion (like the Cyreanics) the second word that is used by Epicurus that is "λύττα" [mania] is a proper one to describe the enjoyments of the profligates.

Don You wrote: "I still don't see how you're going from <those that lie in enjoyments> to getting [ those enjoyments that are out of limits]". And I do not see how you're going from the feelings (enjoyments) and intepret them - metaphorically - to getting them onto the bed because they are sleepy!

κειμένων απολαύσεις = naughty enjoyments or lethargy enjoyments or (I found you a new greek word for "sleepy" "ενύπνιες" [enypnies] enjoyments. No, dear friends the enjoyments are enjoyments, and the only they have are LIMITS. A profligate would lough with this conversation, since his enjoyments are not sleepy, they are the awaken, and are those that are costantly in motion i.e. in a few words, a profligate is taking all the pleasures for himself, he is going to bed with many women or boys, he h…

And yet, finally, the translation by Bailey is right "τας εν απολαύσει κειμένας" Epicurus means "sensual pleasures" because he has to clarify: " when we are speaking for pleasures we do not mean the "sensual pleasures" as the slanderers accuse us e.g. like Timocrates, the brother of Metrodorus that accused Epicurus that "he used to vomit twice a day in consequence of his self-indulgent"; Moreover, when we say pleasures we do not mean the Cyrenaic pleasures, those pleasures in motion and as they …

(Quote from Kalosyni) Dear Kalosyni Ηello and Joy ! IMO that "OR" between over-indulgence /indolence leads to aristotles' logic with the excluded middle and dilemmas of "either this or that". In this paragraph Epicurus puts the word "KAI" ["AND"] that means he speaks for one and the same issue. Translation by Bailey : When, therefore, we maintain that pleasure is the end, we do not mean the pleasures of profligates AND those that consist in sensuality, as is supposed by some who are either ignor…

(Quote from Don) Dear Don hello and joy! Does "sensual pleasures" by Bailey is the same wording with "high living" by DeWitt" ? I do not think so. With this "sensual" we're going against to this which says: ALL pleasures are good (and those that are kinetic and the spiritual ones which, the spiritual, are just more intense). I found to my english lexicon: sensual pleasure (physical, sensuous enjoyment). And an example in a sentence: "He often experienced a sensual pleasure when eating a chocolat…

Activities of those ignorant or opposed: (i) endless strings of drinking parties and festivals (ii) taking advantage of slaves and women (iii) extravagant tables of fish and other things there is also a fourth that is very important: (iiii) spreading around false opinions i.e. spreading myths and absolute imaginative ideas (that is the source of most of the turmoil that seizes upon the souls of men). The forth is a real polemic against Plato. Plato is to blame for all the ignorants that are movi…

It is similar as we say: VS23. All friendship is desirable in itself, though it starts from the common benefit. All pleasures are desirable in themselves, though they start from the one that does the hedonic calculus.

Hello and Joy to all epicurean friends! For intepreting the greek word "απολαύω" that means: "I enjoy", and giving meanings as "I took advantage" or "I fight for" or "taking benefit" from someone (women, and boys) or something (fish and luxurious food), it is not proper to go straight to paragraph LTM. 131-132 without seeing first the paragraph 130 in which the same word "απολαύω" is used by Epicurus. For this, I repeat again that that great Norman DeWitt gave the right translation and meaning i…

(Quote from Don) In this paragraph, there is also continuity : not because it adds to it an infinite span of time, but because it takes away the (πόθος) i.e. craving or lust for immortality. The correct understanding (that death is nothing to us) makes the mortality of life enjoyable ...and that is BECAUSE this enjoyment does not lead to the consequence which is the desire (a desire which is out of limits) the desire "pothos"- lust - craving, for immortality (immortality is somehting out of limi…

VS 71. Every desire must be confronted by this question: what will happen to me if the object of my desire is accomplished and what if it is not? imo the desire is connecting with a vision or as an imagination to the future on how we could be/exist and whatever we have along with our existence for the future, are something (vision/imagination) that only humans are able to have (*). Pleasure and pain are instinctive feelings/emotions that both humans and animals have. A humans' desire as a vision…

(Quote from Don) Dear friend Don, hello and joy! Please, if you would like to permit me to eliminate your pain saying to you this known “follow the money” and then, maybe, you’ll realize what Epicurus meant for the enjoyment with “boys” and “women”. In this passage of his LTM for having the enjoyable company with boys and women, Epicurus means simply: spending your money for sleeping and having intercourse with them, and nothing else. In the opposite, having company with boys and women and be un…

(Quote from Don) Well, please replace the word "benefit" with the word "self-interest" and you will conclude what is going in such kind of relationships, and what Epicurus had in mind, as this issue is timeless (see my epilogue as a conclusion). IF there is a self-interest without the existence of a common enjoyable benefit....that is in this enjoyment there is only one EGO who is NOT united with another EGO essentialy and in the basis of human values, and this means also that both use each othe…

ES 54. We must not pretend to study philosophy, but study it in reality, for it is not the appearance of health that we need, but real health. ES 74. In a philosophical discussion he/she who is defeated gains more, since he/she learns more. With frankness of speech: All these days, I read again and again this passage 130-131 from LTM, and as I read again all of our comments, I've realized clearly that I am the one that I was defeated, so that I'm the one that I learned more, and especially from …

From Aristotle on his treatise "for animals": "Of molluscs the sepia is the most πανουργιότατον (that means the most: clever, invetive, ingenious, and resourseful) only species that employs its dark liquid for the sake of concealment". The words as "περιμήδης/πανούργος, πολύτροπος & πολυμήχανος" were the characteristics for Odysseus by Homer, that means the ingenious, invetive, and resoursful. So, Epicurus for greeks could be considered invetive like a sepia, and like the man Odysseus, or as the…